Who is spying on us?
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Who is spying on us?
The answer is "everybody".
We had this thread Who no longer trusts or uses Facebook? like it is a special case. But no, we live in a world where cash is disappearing and where all your purchases are being tracked and where all your emails and online communications are also being tracked. Welcome to the brave new world!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdtdinkIRNY
Is your phone spying on you? The answer is Yes
How Companies Learn Your Secrets They know your teenage daughter got knocked up before you do.
Big companies know more about you than you think. Big Car, Big Pharma, Big Pizza, they know all your secrets. And they will be happy to share what they know with Big Government because they scratch each other's backs when they itch.
Welcome to the brave new world! And get off my lawn!
We had this thread Who no longer trusts or uses Facebook? like it is a special case. But no, we live in a world where cash is disappearing and where all your purchases are being tracked and where all your emails and online communications are also being tracked. Welcome to the brave new world!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdtdinkIRNY
Is your phone spying on you? The answer is Yes
How Companies Learn Your Secrets They know your teenage daughter got knocked up before you do.
Big companies know more about you than you think. Big Car, Big Pharma, Big Pizza, they know all your secrets. And they will be happy to share what they know with Big Government because they scratch each other's backs when they itch.
Welcome to the brave new world! And get off my lawn!
Last edited by LockBot on Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Topic automatically closed 30 days after creation. New replies are no longer allowed.
Reason: Topic automatically closed 30 days after creation. New replies are no longer allowed.
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Re: Who is spying on us?
Good morning. It is true. And so what?
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Re: Who is spying on us?
We in the U.S. live in the land and in the era of convenience and utility. That doesn't necessarily mean we're doing something wrong (though there are individual instances when a given way we do something is wrong) but what it does mean is there's a consequence for how we're living.
Government is a convenience and utility consequence of us living in anything like a society; if we were all individual or pair or very small group nomads, there would be no governments. Militaries are convenience and utility consequence of nation-states. Radio Direction Finding capability is a convenience and utility consequence of having radio transceivers. And so forth and so on...
The better thing to consider instead of just erupting in a panic over this discussion is what the appropriate way is to think through any given "convenience and utility" instance.
One thing in particular is for society to get its s**t together over is encryption standards and making use of them for any and all communication.
Government is a convenience and utility consequence of us living in anything like a society; if we were all individual or pair or very small group nomads, there would be no governments. Militaries are convenience and utility consequence of nation-states. Radio Direction Finding capability is a convenience and utility consequence of having radio transceivers. And so forth and so on...
The better thing to consider instead of just erupting in a panic over this discussion is what the appropriate way is to think through any given "convenience and utility" instance.
One thing in particular is for society to get its s**t together over is encryption standards and making use of them for any and all communication.
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Recommended keyboard layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
Podcasts: Linux Unplugged, Destination Linux
Also check out Thor Hartmannsson's Linux Tips YouTube Channel
Re: Who is spying on us?
So my business is nobody else's business, and I don't appreciate being spied on. That's what.
“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan
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Re: Who is spying on us?
But do we, actually?
What I mean by that is best explained by way of an analogy.
We tend to think of property ownership rights in basic, traditional terms: I buy an object and it is now legally mine and nobody else's. That means I can keep it or sell it or use it or destroy it or store it. I can use it for any task for which it is capable (for example, if it's a shovel, I can use it for dirt, sand, snow, piles of coal, leaves, or whatever) and I have at least a legal, if not an intrinsic, right to do so. However, do you have a right to duplicate it? If the design is basic and generic enough and nobody has either patented or trademarked or copyrighted it, then in theory you could duplicate it (minus any logos, for example) without legal repercussion. Hopefully you appreciate the subtle distinction I'm making: it's not so much that you have the right to duplicate it; you're merely not trampling on anybody else's ownership rights if you do.
However, what of modern technological devices, such as an engine computer? Sure, purchasing it may make the object itself your legal property, but what of the firmware embedded in it? Surely you do not own copyrighted and/or patented code. So, at the end of the day, who actually owns the thing you spent your money on?
Likewise, when it comes to privacy and our self-perceived rights to it, in what context are you speaking? Other than in our own homes or other legitimately private spaces, our "right" to privacy falls away pretty quickly. It disappears even faster when you're talking about something like online mediums. Your computer, in terms of the hardware itself, may well be your private property and therefore your information's private domicile, but consider that, in order to realize the data processing and storage potential of a technological device, software is involved, along with the aforementioned Middleware. Add to that the highly blended reality introduced because of the centrality of the Internet in nearly every aspect of our existence, and consider how much of what you might perceive to be yours is actually somebody else's.
Flying this flag in support of freedom 🇺🇦
Recommended keyboard layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
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Recommended keyboard layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
Podcasts: Linux Unplugged, Destination Linux
Also check out Thor Hartmannsson's Linux Tips YouTube Channel
Re: Who is spying on us?
There's two issues at hand. One is our privacy in our computers and our communications with others. This aspect is the easiest to deal with by using encryption and trusted devices and software. I encrypt my data at rest and I sometimes encrypt some of my emails just so that they do not call attention to themselves. (But most people do not want to deal with encryption so it becomes a hurdle right there.)
Another different aspect is information about us which is "public" and was quite harmless until now because it was bits and pieces unconnected but now computers allow the compilation and processing of this information. You cannot keep this information secret because it is public from the start. Until now this was not a problem. The problem is that now thousands of websites and vendors track your activity and share their information with each other. Until now you could go down to the store and buy something and all that store would know about you is that you bought that something. Now they can know all about your life and your family's life. That is what makes me uncomfortable. They are sharing and processing information which was impossible to share and process in the past.
It is very difficult to impossible to protect ourselves against this. Using cash in physical stores helps but cash use is diminishing and already illegal for large purchases.
As has been said, people love the convenience of "one button" shopping and do not want to consider the consequences of having all their info out there in the hands of Big Business and Big Government.
As to an alleged "right to privacy", well, the rights we actually have are the rights our governments say we have and subject to their interpretation. Anything else is wishful thinking. The rights we actually enjoy are those we have managed to protect. In reality the history of humankind is always trying to get the best for "our" group while denying what we can to others. That is the common denominator of all human history.
Another different aspect is information about us which is "public" and was quite harmless until now because it was bits and pieces unconnected but now computers allow the compilation and processing of this information. You cannot keep this information secret because it is public from the start. Until now this was not a problem. The problem is that now thousands of websites and vendors track your activity and share their information with each other. Until now you could go down to the store and buy something and all that store would know about you is that you bought that something. Now they can know all about your life and your family's life. That is what makes me uncomfortable. They are sharing and processing information which was impossible to share and process in the past.
It is very difficult to impossible to protect ourselves against this. Using cash in physical stores helps but cash use is diminishing and already illegal for large purchases.
As has been said, people love the convenience of "one button" shopping and do not want to consider the consequences of having all their info out there in the hands of Big Business and Big Government.
As to an alleged "right to privacy", well, the rights we actually have are the rights our governments say we have and subject to their interpretation. Anything else is wishful thinking. The rights we actually enjoy are those we have managed to protect. In reality the history of humankind is always trying to get the best for "our" group while denying what we can to others. That is the common denominator of all human history.
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Re: Who is spying on us?
Exactly. All the rights in the world mean nothing if we are not actually being granted those rights in practice.
If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!
Re: Who is spying on us?
Portreve i repeat, and i don't care what others think on this particular issue.
Last edited by MrGrimm on Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Who is spying on us?
And people buy a corporate spying device for their home. No thanks, I can turn the lights off myself.
Re: Who is spying on us?
Spy on me all they want. It would be like a Virtual Ambien
Re: Who is spying on us?
I agree - unfortunately I think what you are seeing is a sentiment being expressed that it may be too late.
"They" (whoever they are) know everywhere I have lived and went to school, who everyone in my extended family is and who my friends and neighbors have been since High School and what they though of me (they know that in High School me and two buddies where caught with a six pack of beer - thank goodness the Army didn't hold that against me - can you say Brett Kavanaugh). They know my entire credit history - what I have bought and for how much. Where I travel and where I stay for how how long and how much I spent. They know what I buy. They have old emails, know who my family and friends are and where they stand politically. What web sites I visit and what I watch on TV. I wrote this in another similar thread regarding privacy . . . . at this point how do I get my right to privacy back? Like the others I think that has come and is now long gone.
1.) I retired from the US Army - the Office of Personnel Management was hacked (probably by the Chinese) and literally millions of records of military and federal employees were stolen - I had at one time a Top Secret clearance imagine what info they have on me
2.) The ExquaFax breach - all my credit history
3.) Now the Marriot breach - have used Marriot hotels for decades.
4.) I shop on Amazon
5.) I once had a Gmail email account, a Facebook account and used to use Google and Chrome
6.) I recently started using a PiHole and a browser extension Ghostery and I am seeing all the trackers that are on literally every website that I go to. It is crazy - I seen as many as 17 trackers on one site so far.
7.) My Roku Ultra phones home almost once every minute - I tried blocking it but then I couldn't watch Acorn (British TV) my favorite.
Re: Who is spying on us?
It's a double edged sword. YES we all want privacy, and an inalienable right to do what we like. Problem is, there are those who use those same rights against us, think - terrorists. How do we protect our privacies and rights without letting Terrorists avail themselves of those same rights?
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Re: Who is spying on us?
actually - it's the US Fed Gov't - new best buddy - - the Australian Fed Gov't:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-46463029
Australia has passed controversial laws designed to compel technology companies,
- to grant police and security agencies access to encrypted messages.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-46463029
Australia has passed controversial laws designed to compel technology companies,
- to grant police and security agencies access to encrypted messages.
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.
Re: Who is spying on us?
Privacy rights are just a part of being human. God-given, as some might say. However, there's always somebody who feels they have the authority to overrule God on things like this.
Pepi:
“Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say. It’s a deeply anti social principle because rights are not just individual, they’re collective, and what may not have value to you today may have value to an entire population, an entire people, an entire way of life tomorrow. And if you don’t stand up for it, then who will?” - Edward Snowden
lsemmens: terrorism is very rare. I am far more concerned with the acts of "our" government than I am about the people "our" government calls terrorists.
“Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it.” - Edward Snowden
“The real terrorist is the American government, state terrorism unleashed against the world.” - Bernardine Dohrn
“The greatest threats to our freedom are not terrorists dressed in robes and turbans. Our greatest threats come from American men and women in dark suits, who call Wall Street, the United States Government, and the Federal Reserve home.” - Eric Herm
“A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but doesn’t have an air force.” - William Blum
“Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it.” - Noam Chomsky
Pepi:
“Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say. It’s a deeply anti social principle because rights are not just individual, they’re collective, and what may not have value to you today may have value to an entire population, an entire people, an entire way of life tomorrow. And if you don’t stand up for it, then who will?” - Edward Snowden
lsemmens: terrorism is very rare. I am far more concerned with the acts of "our" government than I am about the people "our" government calls terrorists.
“Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it.” - Edward Snowden
“The real terrorist is the American government, state terrorism unleashed against the world.” - Bernardine Dohrn
“The greatest threats to our freedom are not terrorists dressed in robes and turbans. Our greatest threats come from American men and women in dark suits, who call Wall Street, the United States Government, and the Federal Reserve home.” - Eric Herm
“A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but doesn’t have an air force.” - William Blum
“Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it.” - Noam Chomsky
“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan
Re: Who is spying on us?
hi jimallyn...i just knew there was a lot about you that i admire and that we both have many ideals in common...lol...are we both really getting that much older and and growing in knowledge and wisdom?...DAMIEN
Re: Who is spying on us?
I have been trying to get all my friends and family to use Signal on their phones (and desktop), and the Enigmail addon to Thunderbird, but it's hard to convince very many people to do it. There are activists who need to keep their actions secret, and I figure if I use encryption for everything, maybe the activists can get their business done while the snoops are trying to decrypt my shopping list.
“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan
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Re: Who is spying on us?
Why you say this here and me? Every morning after waking up try to repeat this loudly in front of mirror, please. Result will the same.
Windows assumes I'm stupid but Linux demands proof of it
Re: Who is spying on us?
The examples and links I gave in the OP are entirely of a commercial nature. It is commercial entities spying on us for their commercial benefit. Of course, once anybody has a detailed file on private citizens then governments will have access and use that information. Use and abuse.
Again, I am not sure we can protect ourselves at all. We can encrypt our communications but we cannot hide our interactions with the outside world. If you buy online, use a credit card, pay road tolls, have purchases delivered to your home, etc, then that information can be aggregated and analyzed. It is almost impossible to get around that.
I suppose governments could pass certain privacy laws making it illegal to do that kind of data aggregation and analysis but I am skeptical. First the pressure from big business is to not pass such laws but even if they were passed they would probably be a mess which would do more harm than good.
This is not a simple problem with a simple solution. It is a very complex problem which may have no practical solution. I suppose the very rich can always find ways of protecting their privacy by hiding behind business names, trusts, etc.
Saying you don't care if your entire life is public knowledge is very irresponsible and goes against some very basic principles about "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures". And I guarantee you would not like to be up against some government agents, in your home country or in a foreign country, who knew every little detail about your life. Imagine you are traveling to some country and on the way you are detained in another stopover country on account of some opinions you have expressed or something you did which was legal where and when you did it. This kind of thing is already happening and can only get worse.
Again, I am not sure we can protect ourselves at all. We can encrypt our communications but we cannot hide our interactions with the outside world. If you buy online, use a credit card, pay road tolls, have purchases delivered to your home, etc, then that information can be aggregated and analyzed. It is almost impossible to get around that.
I suppose governments could pass certain privacy laws making it illegal to do that kind of data aggregation and analysis but I am skeptical. First the pressure from big business is to not pass such laws but even if they were passed they would probably be a mess which would do more harm than good.
This is not a simple problem with a simple solution. It is a very complex problem which may have no practical solution. I suppose the very rich can always find ways of protecting their privacy by hiding behind business names, trusts, etc.
Saying you don't care if your entire life is public knowledge is very irresponsible and goes against some very basic principles about "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures". And I guarantee you would not like to be up against some government agents, in your home country or in a foreign country, who knew every little detail about your life. Imagine you are traveling to some country and on the way you are detained in another stopover country on account of some opinions you have expressed or something you did which was legal where and when you did it. This kind of thing is already happening and can only get worse.
Please do not use animated GIFs in avatars because many of us find them distracting and obnoxious. Thank you.