Privacy is not just a personal matter

Chat about just about anything else
MrGrimm
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 648
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:13 am

Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by MrGrimm » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:30 am

Privacy is not just a personal matter

The loss of our privacy is a loss for society and democracy. In a surveillance society, the impact of data collection is not just personal because collective privacy is lost too.

Published on January 28, 2019 – By Jon von Tetzchner
Image

I started working with the Web in 1992, just a few years after Tim Berners-Lee made Web standards available to the public, paving the way for a massive transformation in our lives. A transformation that has been very positive.

I have always believed that access to the Internet and to the information available there is good for society. That is why I founded not one, but two web browser companies. First Opera and now Vivaldi (after losing control over the direction of Opera). I have dedicated my life to helping people get onto the Internet and make the most out of it on their terms. Now, sadly we have real problems to contend with.

During the past 10 years, certain companies have taken liberties. They have decided that our data is really their data and that it can be monetized, as they see fit. Meanwhile, our governments have looked the other way. Maybe they have not understood what is happening. Or maybe they have just seen it as progress. Or maybe they have not dared to stand up to the influential companies behind it.

It is now time for us to understand and wake up to what is happening and turn the tide. But we better hurry.

Data is the new oil?

At a conference I was attending a couple of years ago, many referred to data as “the new oil.” I was rather appalled at the time, but in reality, there may be a lot of truth to the comparison.

Oil and fossil fuels are useful in many ways. At the same time, the consequence of consuming them at scale is a catastrophe, which threatens the planet with climate change.

Similarly, misuse of our data is gradually turning the Internet from a great place to be (barring the odd troll) to a place where all of our actions are tracked, and the data sold to the highest bidder to use for what they will.

Is Privacy a personal matter?

How often have you heard someone say: “I know privacy is important, but I really do not care. I have nothing to hide”.

The problem with this thinking is that your privacy is not only about you. When our collective privacy is lost, there are consequences for us all.

The fact is that our every move is being tracked. This makes us more careful about what we say and do (not that the trolls care), and keep our opinions to ourselves. This hits home with me. I am particularly careful about liking or sharing things on Facebook, knowing that it helps Facebook build a profile on me.

Profiles ad nauseam

Giving up our privacy leads to our data being used to build accurate profiles on us. There are a lot of companies doing research into how the data you share can be used to influence your decisions. This is not only about convincing you to buy things you do not need. These methods can and have been used to influence people during elections. They can even be used to create unrest or otherwise undermine our society

These tools, in the wrong hands, are very dangerous. With our own intimate information, such as love for cats or hate for rats, those using them can get under our skin and make us do things we would otherwise not do. And this does not just happen to “stupid” people which is often claimed. I believe that anyone can be fooled and influenced this way, and I know many good people who have been.

Monetizing us

Some companies think that if we get our fair share of the revenues – instead of just big companies monetizing – the problem of information gathering will be solved.

The issue here is that there are some things that are plain detrimental to society. Yes, like being programmable through services such as Google and Facebook.

You might be able to make a few bucks a year by selling your data, and the company helping you would make a bit as well – they need money to run their show. But the fact remains that your personal data is changing hands.

Sometimes I think of this as selling your body, no matter who the pimp is.

So what data is being collected?

You may be interested in these examples of data being collected.

When you visit services such as Facebook and Google, everything you do is tracked.
Facebook tracks you when you visit pages of even other websites whether their buttons are shown or not. They’ll know even if you aren’t logged in or don’t have a Facebook account.
Google has everything you type in the browser – and this has significant privacy implications that can be quite revealing.
Google tracks your location through your phone and through your PC. The location is tracked through a mixture of GPS, WIFI and Bluetooth information even if you have turned off these services
Google scans your email if you use their Gmail service.
Google knows about your visits to any sites that have their ads.
Google also gets information from their Google Analytics service.
Google and Facebook also get data from other third parties, such as banks.
There are a lot of stories about photo data and microphones and whether data is being collected and used, and technically it is possible.
Google and Facebook are not the only ones that collect information about what you do. Anyone who has gone through an installation of a Windows machine knows that Microsoft by default will collect a lot of data.

Many others do as well, but often the data they gather is limited. Because the big ones are getting away with it, the rest think they can as well, all chasing after “the new oil.”

Overcoming objections
So why aren’t regulators doing something about this mass surveillance? There are steps being taken by the General Data Protection Regulation, but are they enough?

The problem with the current regulations is that they treat this too much as a matter of personal privacy. More should be done to address the underlying issue of tracking.

The real solution would require taking a big step in regulation and that is hard for our politicians, even those that truly want to do the right thing. It’s just a complicated situation.

They need to take all sides into account, and there are many voices telling them that regulation on tracking would:

Hamper competitiveness of companies in their countries;
Mean that we’d have to pay for the services we now get for free;
Make it impossible to provide those services without access to data;
Do nothing as it is too late.
Now, let’s look at those arguments a little closer.

Would competitiveness suffer?

Facebook and Google have set a precedent on data collection and now other companies are pushing for equal access to information. For example, US telecommunications companies, such as Comcast, AT&T, Verizon and others, can now monitor their users.

Isn’t it better to improve competitiveness for those companies not spying on us by regulating those that do?

Would we have to start paying for services?

These services were free before. Our information was not being sold. The services were quite often ad-driven, but the ads were more generic. Instead of ads following us from site to site, they were typically related to the content we were reading. If we were on a tech site, we would see tech ads, if we were on a fashion site, we’d see fashion ads.

If we regulate companies that are unable or unwilling to regulate themselves, we will remove the unfair advantage and even the playing field. It will be possible for services to thrive without using an advertising model that relies on surveillance data (look at DuckDuckGo).

Facebook and Google would need to change their business models. Maybe they would not make as much money. Maybe they would be more vulnerable to competition. Maybe that would be a positive thing.

Is it possible to provide those services without access to data?
Clearly, if the service provider could not use any data, there would be services that could not be provided. How can you provide traffic information without having information about those stuck in traffic?

I am not suggesting that data cannot be used to provide a service. It is a question of whether that data can be used for other purposes. Your traffic data is useful there and then, and you would experience a benefit in sharing that data to get a better driving experience.

Visit https://vivaldi.com/blog/privacy-is-not ... al-matter/ yo read the rest of the article

User avatar
Moem
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9332
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by Moem » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:00 am

Similar thoughts, being expressed in a different way: Social Cooling
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

User avatar
Pierre
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9046
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Perth, AU.

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by Pierre » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:20 am

there is some folks, who don't understand just how Facebook, can track their activity:
- - when they don't have any Facebook account.
that's one of Life's Mysteries.. .. But it must be True, because Everyone says that is the case :?

Likewise, the same thing applies to those that diligently Avoid using Google.
- - when they too, seem to know lots of things, about the folks that Don't Use Their Products(s).
:roll:
Image
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.

MrGrimm
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 648
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:13 am

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by MrGrimm » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:22 am

Moem wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:00 am
Similar thoughts, being expressed in a different way: Social Cooling
interesting. good for those that might find the full article i posted a little dry. thanks

User avatar
Moem
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9332
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by Moem » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:32 am

You're welcome; I figured the two complement each other nicely.
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

MrGrimm
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 648
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:13 am

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by MrGrimm » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:14 am

Moem wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:32 am
You're welcome; I figured the two complement each other nicely.

and they do indeed, thanks again. :D :D :D


Nafis
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:45 am

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by Nafis » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:05 pm

Even Google AdSense and various other bots are literally laser pointing whatever I post here...
Goodbye old privacy days...
Laptop: HP ProBook 450 G3
Intel Core i5 6200u @2.3GHz (Turbo boost off)
AMD Radeon R7 M340
8GB RAM
1TB HDD
BCM43142 WiFi

User avatar
philotux
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 833
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:14 am
Location: Utopia

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by philotux » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:16 pm

Nafis wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:05 pm
Goodbye old privacy days...
The word itself might as well get totally obliterated in the "Newspeak" of the 21th century :wink:

Nafis
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:45 am

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by Nafis » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:36 pm

True that... :(
Laptop: HP ProBook 450 G3
Intel Core i5 6200u @2.3GHz (Turbo boost off)
AMD Radeon R7 M340
8GB RAM
1TB HDD
BCM43142 WiFi

User avatar
jimallyn
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8945
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:34 pm
Location: Wenatchee, WA USA

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by jimallyn » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:40 am

“Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say. It’s a deeply anti social principle because rights are not just individual, they’re collective, and what may not have value to you today may have value to an entire population, an entire people, an entire way of life tomorrow. And if you don’t stand up for it, then who will?” - Edward Snowden
Image

“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan

MrGrimm
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 648
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:13 am

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by MrGrimm » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:46 am

jimallyn wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:40 am
“Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say. It’s a deeply anti social principle because rights are not just individual, they’re collective, and what may not have value to you today may have value to an entire population, an entire people, an entire way of life tomorrow. And if you don’t stand up for it, then who will?” - Edward Snowden
amen, but i'd be far more blunt than that. any one ignorant enough to believe we don't need our privacy protected need to keep their mouths shut.

User avatar
jimallyn
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8945
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:34 pm
Location: Wenatchee, WA USA

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by jimallyn » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:06 am

MrGrimm wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:46 am
amen, but i'd be far more blunt than that. any one ignorant enough to believe we don't need our privacy protected need to keep their mouths shut.
Well, that's another good way to put it. However, while many people think of Edward Snowden as an authority on things like that, I'm not sure that many people think of you as an authority. But, if people ignore the wisdom of Edward Snowden, I too would be tempted to say something like that.
Image

“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan

tinca
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:23 am
Location: England U.K.

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by tinca » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:39 am

Hi all,

MrGrimm wrote
amen, but i'd be far more blunt than that. any one ignorant enough to believe we don't need our privacy protected need to keep their mouths shut.
to me this statement comes across as rude and arrogant. People are allowed to have opposing views, it does not make them ignorant.

It used to be said that the way to protect your data, was to purchase your computer, take it home and leave it in the box. Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case any more.

My next door neighbour is even older than I am and he does not even own a computer. His daughter looked him up somewhere on the web and she learnt that he likes to grow tulips, which is true, but where did that information come from?, probably from someone he knows who mentioned it on social media somewhere. Your privacy does not exist.

Realistically I do not see that there is any way to stop data theft. They can get it from you, or from web sites that have been hacked, from smart phones, your fridge, toaster and TV. If a law was passed to make it an offence to collect data, then someone somewhere would still find a way to do it.

In the old day people had a private life and they kept it like that. Nowadays people share their whole life with with complete strangers that they do not know and will probably never even meet.

I have been reading about data theft for some time and you are told to use this program or that program, use this filter or that filter, block this and that, but no matter what steps you take your data is still up for grabs.

It is both annoying and very sad.

Best regards Keith
Last edited by Moem on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed a quote
EVGA Geforce GTX 1070 FTW
Image

User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3528
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by AZgl1500 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:09 pm

even if you go off the grid, your life is not private....
your birth certificate is on file somewhere

your SSN is on file with big govmint
your employer has to follow the rules and deposit your taxes, with a lot of personal info there.

I just deal with the minimums and forget about what I can't control.
so far, at 70 y/o my life has not been impinged from the results of hacking...

when I hear rumors, I change all of my passwords, and start anew with them.
I use Facebook, and my password there is ~25 characters of meaningless drivel.
never once had anyone say that I have been hacked or got a message from me that I did not send.

MrGrimm
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 648
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:13 am

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by MrGrimm » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:12 pm

sorry but tell peeps to basically give up all privacy is a no go for the majority. and that is what your post suggest.

User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3528
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by AZgl1500 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:18 pm

MrGrimm wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:12 pm
sorry but tell peeps to basically give up all privacy is a no go for the majority. and that is what your post suggest.
you are taking a rather grim view of what I said, I never said that I give up all of my privacy, I control what I can, and ignore what I can't... you are inherently Negative to the world all the time, that is proven by your Username: MrGrimm

I can't control what the government chooses to do, beyond vote for the Least Damaging applicant for a government post.

I control how my bank accounts are accessed, my forum passwords, etc...
I control how my taxes are stored, and how they are compiled and filed....

on the whole of it, that is about the best we can do.

argue further if you want, I am done here. won't come back with a reply... :|

User avatar
GS3
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 572
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:51 am

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by GS3 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:34 pm

I was just gifted a (used) Samsung S7 Edge (with a battery on the fringe). My wife said "put a SIM card in it and try it" but I preferred not to. I turned it on and connected to that home's wifi and it instantly told me exact location and weather etc.

Android (Google), keeps track of wifi access points exact locations which is easy to do. Then they can easily know the phone's exact location even if you have the GPS location service turned off.

This phone has Android V8.0.0 and it will turn the GPS on when you connect to wifi even if you have it turned off. Cite.

My plan was to maybe use it with no SIM, only wifi, but I am now thinking of not using it at all.

The camera is pretty good but I don't like it that you cannot choose a picture size. Only take it in the max resolution and later resize it with some other app or program.

The way things are going I am slowly retreating from the Internet, social media, etc.
HP Compaq Elite 8300 CMT - Linux Mint 18.2 Sonya - Kernel 4.4.0-148-generic X64 - Cinnamon 3.4.4 - Nemo

User avatar
Moem
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9332
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by Moem » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:43 pm

GS3 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:34 pm
I was just gifted a (used) Samsung S7 Edge (with a battery on the fringe). My wife said "put a SIM card in it and try it" but I preferred not to. I turned it on and connected to that home's wifi and it instantly told me exact location and weather etc.
Will it run LineageOS? If so, that could be a way of getting it away from Google.
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

User avatar
absque fenestris
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:42 pm
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica

Re: Privacy is not just a personal matter

Post by absque fenestris » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:49 pm

GS3 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:34 pm
I was just gifted a (used) Samsung S7 Edge (with a battery on the fringe). My wife said "put a SIM card in it and try it" but I preferred not to. I turned it on and connected to that home's wifi and it instantly told me exact location and weather etc.
... ...
A candidate for Lineage OS?
:mrgreen:
https://rootmygalaxy.net/download-and-i ... d-9-0-pie/

Moem was faster...
Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia (Mate) 32-bit - Acer D250 Netbook (Intel Atom N270, 2 GB RAM, 120 GB SSD)
Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa (Mate) 64-bit - MacBook Pro 15" (Intel Core2 Duo, 8 GB RAM, 240 GB SSD) - with some separation difficulties...

Post Reply

Return to “Open chat”