Tesla and Autopilot crashes...

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BG405
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Re: Tesla and Autopilot crashes...

Post by BG405 » Mon May 13, 2019 11:17 am

Portreve wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:21 pm
I've never driven a manual transmission car. Conceptually, I understand what goes on, but operationally... wouldn't have a clue. I want to move to Germany in the next year or two, and I'm hoping I can track down an automatic because I don't really think I'm at a point where I can learn how to function in another country while at the same time trying to learn how to up- and downshift my car.
It shouldn't be too much of a problem; especially as the Germans drive on the same side of the road as you do. I did a test drive in Italy a few years back & that was interesting .. particularly going round the roundabouts the other way! :mrgreen: Not a real issue though. I agree with Moem with respect to having a few lessons in a manual car - it'll be well worth it. Although automatics are quite common, you'll have a much broader choice of vehicles if you can also drive "stick". You just need to learn when to change gear & how to roughly match the engine speed to the road speed when doing so. It likely won't take long as you already know all the other stuff.

One of my friends ONLY drives automatics .. in fact, his licence is for automatics only. In the UK, if you take your test in an automatic, you are (or maybe were) only allowed to drive those, not manual (stick-shift). He'd have to take another test. In any case, you might need to take a test in Germany to get a licence for that country anyway. Not sure if US licences are transferrable. I know Kenyan ones aren't (I still have mine) but you can use them here in the UK for a year, like I did, before (re)taking my UK test.

As for the Autobahns .. I'd love to drive on those, being able to do the speeds I like to drive at without risk of a ticket! :mrgreen:

By the way, RTC = road traffic collision. I refuse to call them "accidents" because there is no implicit "fault" in such a description, whereas it usually is the result of a mistake or error of judgement etc. by one or more parties involved. It's also the term the police use, I believe.
RollyShed wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 11:17 pm
Have you ever smelled cars that have come down a long hill? The smell of very used brake pads.
That reminds me of the very steep hill in the western Scottish Highlands. I did need to use the brakes as engine braking simply wasn't enough on its own, especially the bit with the 4WD coming up the hill at significant speed .. I'd had to drop into 1st a couple of times on the way up. I'd bet that the other driver was a bit surprised to see a Nissan Micra on those roads! :mrgreen:
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Faust
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Re: Tesla and Autopilot crashes...

Post by Faust » Mon May 13, 2019 1:55 pm

Fully automated control of ANY type of vehicle ?

Just say NO !

What happens when highly skilled and experienced pilots have absolutely no way of imposing
full manual control in an emergency situation ?

Let's see what Boeing have recently been saying about that .......
https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737ma ... pdate.page

Sloppy coding ? .... Arrogant / incompetent engineers ?
A lot of lives were needlessly lost , that is certain .

Somebody knew that giving MCAS that level of control was a disaster in waiting
..... but they signed-off on it anyway .

And as for cars , yes .... learn to " drive a stick " , as the saying goes .
It seems foolish not to , if you are already under instruction , and in a vehicle anyway .

Just my two khoums worth , of course

:)
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The modern reality and the satirical parody are rapidly converging .

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Re: Tesla and Autopilot crashes...

Post by mediclaser » Mon May 13, 2019 3:33 pm

jimallyn wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:52 pm
AZgl1500 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:37 am
Electric cars are not the way to go

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... story.html
Yes, electric cars ARE the way to go. Imposing taxes on them is the wrong thing to do.
My fingers are itching to post a sort of advice to the residents there...but it sounds too political to me no matter how I re-phrase the sentence. So my advice instead is to move out and live somewhere else. :wink:
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Re: Tesla and Autopilot crashes...

Post by AZgl1500 » Mon May 13, 2019 5:20 pm

jimallyn wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:52 pm
AZgl1500 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:37 am
Electric cars are not the way to go

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... story.html
Yes, electric cars ARE the way to go. Imposing taxes on them is the wrong thing to do.
The fee is to pay for road maintenance, and I can understand that line of thought.
here at home, we pay a very significant fee per gallon of gasoline.

The Recharging Stations, IMO, should have a fee for their use to go directly into the State Highway funds. The Home Rechargers should also have a computer that can bill the user state excise taxes the equivalent rate of the average economy car.... ~ 40 mpg

This idea will be hard to get done outside of Illinois, but I see it coming.
Oklahoma levies excise taxes on gasoline at 16 cents per gallon and diesel at 13 cents, with an additional one-cent motor fuel assessment fee levied on both.

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BG405
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Re: Tesla and Autopilot crashes...

Post by BG405 » Mon May 13, 2019 7:15 pm

AZgl1500 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:37 am
Electric cars are not the way to go

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... story.html
I'd like to read that, but unfortunately get this geo-wall:
Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.
Any chance of a snippet, if that's within copyright limitations?
AZgl1500 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:20 pm
Oklahoma levies excise taxes on gasoline at 16 cents per gallon and diesel at 13 cents, with an additional one-cent motor fuel assessment fee levied on both.
Wish ours was that low. From this site:
UK Fuel Excise Duty rates – March 2011 to March 2020
Fuel type (used as road fuel) Fuel duty
Ultra-Low Sulphur Petrol 57.95 p/litre
Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel 57.95 p/litre
Biodiesel 57.95 p/litre
Bioethanol 57.95 p/litre
Liquefied petroleum gas 31.61 p/kg
Natural gas 24.7 p/kg
Electricity 0.0 p/kWh

Source: HM Treasury, October 2018
Fuel duty – Recent history and future trends

For petrol and diesel, fuel duty currently accounts for around 50% of the price at the pump (including VAT which is levied on the duty). Historically, fuel duty has been used both to raise general government revenues, and also (to a lesser extent) manage the level of car and van use for environmental reasons.
It's not good that bio-fuels are taxed at the same rate & I'll have to find a way of determining the calorific value of LPG & Methane per kg with respect to a litre of liquid gasoline/petrol & diesel etc.. Would be nice if they'd put it up in gallons too but Imperial gallons are not the same as US ones anyway I suppose.

As for electricity: we have companies stating that all your energy comes from renewable resources, whereas in fact you are simply paying the renewable providers but the energy you get actually comes via the National Grid, using the same wires. It's not like the choice of getting your internet & phone via the cable TV network or the lines attached to the poles in the street (I use the latter now BTW. Don't know how they manage 30-40Mbit/s over those copper cables.).
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Re: Tesla and Autopilot crashes...

Post by HaveaMint » Tue May 14, 2019 12:07 am

Code: Select all


A proposed hike in Illinois’ annual registration fee for electric vehicles, from $17.50 to $1,000, is being called unfair by current EV owners, and a sales disincentive by manufacturers — just as the new technology is beginning to gain broader traction.

“It’s outrageous,” said Nicoletta Skarlatos, 56, of Chicago, who bought a Tesla Model S five years ago. “I thought Illinois was progressive and would want to encourage EV ownership.”

Aimed at raising money to make overdue road improvements across Illinois, the proposed legislation would also more than double the state’s gas tax to 44 cents a gallon and raise the registration fee for standard vehicles to $148, from $98, among other elements.

But the kicker is a nearly 60-fold increase in the electric vehicle registration fee — one that is sure to cause sticker shock across a nascent segment of the auto industry, which has depended on government incentives to entice early adopters.

Hybrids and plug-in electric hybrids, which both use gas to supplement electric power, are not included in the $1,000 fee proposal.

The justification for the dramatic hike? Electric vehicles don’t provide the state with any gas tax revenue.

“There’s definitely a push, because electric vehicles don’t pay any gas taxes,” said Pete Sander, president of the Illinois Automobile Dealers Association.

Tesla said it opposes the Illinois fee increase. Electric truck startup Rivian, which is slated to begin production at its factory in downstate Normal next year, was more outspoken.
Across U.S., electric vehicle drivers are getting slapped with higher fees

“Imposing fees on EVs that are over 400 percent more than their gasoline-powered counterparts is not only unfair, it discourages promising new technology that will reduce our dependence on petroleum, reduce emissions, and promote the Illinois economy,” Rivian spokesman Michael McHale said.

The legislation, introduced this week by Democratic Sen. Martin Sandoval of Chicago, would raise about $2.4 billion in annual transportation funding, according to its backers. Sandoval did not respond to a request for comment Thursday on the proposed EV registration fee hike.

A tax on how much you drive — could it happen in Illinois? »

Last year, electric vehicle sales topped 200,000, or about 2 percent of total U.S. auto sales, according to Edmunds, an auto research firm. Tesla is the market leader, but competitors include the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, with a host of new EVs from other manufacturers set to hit the market in the near future.

“Every automaker has broadcast loud and clear that the future of automotive is autonomous and electric,” Jeremy Acevedo, an analyst with Edmunds, said Thursday.

Acevedo said EV sales growth has been slower than some projected, with a dearth of models and not enough electric infrastructure — charging stations — to promote widespread adoption.
Electric car owners, brace for a jolt. A Chicago Democrat wants to charge you $1,000 — every year.

A $7,500 federal tax incentive has helped consumers take the plunge. But once a manufacturer hits 200,000 electric vehicles delivered, the credit is cut in half, which is the case with Tesla. In fact, starting July 1, the tax incentive will be cut in half again at Tesla, to $1,875 per car.

At the other end of the spectrum, Nissan, which sold 14,713 Leafs in the U.S. last year, has yet to hit the 200,000 cumulative sales mark and still qualifies for the full $7,500 federal tax credit. Retail price for the car starts at less than $30,000, before incentives.

A disincentive, such as the Illinois registration fee, could significantly slow sales momentum, Acevedo said.

“Certainly, going from $17.50 to $1,000 in terms of registration, isn’t going to move the needle in the direction the industry is hoping,” Acevedo said.
Whole town's talking about how Tesla may doom dealerships as 'Webb boys' make $20 million showroom bet

Illinois ranked seventh in EV sales last year, at 6,400 vehicles. There were about 15,000 electric vehicles registered in the state as of last month, but analysts project that number could increase dramatically in the coming years as manufacturers ramp up production, customers warm to adoption, and more and better charging stations come online.

A recent study by the Citizens Utility Board projected the number of electric vehicles registered in Illinois to hit at least 690,000 by 2030, but could reach as high as 2.2 million if the state embarks on an “aggressive effort to reduce carbon emissions.”

The proposed electric vehicle registration fee hike would certainly run counter to such efforts, according to CUB spokesman Jim Chilsen.

“The proposed fee increase is way too high,” Chilsen said. “It’s punitive, it’s unfair and it goes against Illinois’ transportation trends and needs. It won’t be long before we’re all driving in an EV world — out of necessity. We need EVs, not only to reduce pollution but also to keep down our personal driving costs and the costs of the power grid.”

For Skarlatos, a self-employed software developer who bought her Tesla using $7,500 in federal incentives and $4,000 in state incentives, the idea of suddenly having to pay a $1,000 registration fee to own an electric vehicle in Illinois is “unfair,” and would have dissuaded her from an environmentally motivated purchase. The $11,500 in incentives, she said, persuaded her to take the plunge.

“This is going to make people not want to buy EVs,” she said.

rchannick@chicagotribune.com

Twitter @RobertChannick

MORE COVERAGE

The Tesla of trucks? Rivian lands $700 million Amazon-led investment as it powers up in Normal »

Elon Musk's long-promised $35,000 Model 3 has finally arrived, Tesla says »

Ford, like Amazon, opens its wallet to help Rivian: $500M for electric vehicle startup with downstate Normal factory »
Copyright © 2019, Chicago Tribune

    Automotive Industry

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BG405
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Re: Tesla and Autopilot crashes...

Post by BG405 » Tue May 14, 2019 11:17 am

Thanks for that, HaveaMint! Interesting reading. Those proposed fees seem rather steep to me & far higher than the road tax they would attract here, I believe.
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Re: Tesla and Autopilot crashes...

Post by Portreve » Tue May 14, 2019 7:51 pm

The sort of penalty talked about in the article above (I'm speaking in generalities) happens, in my experience, for one of two reasons:

A well-intentioned effort by people who ostensibly have their heart in the right place, but have absolutely no clue about the way the real world works, or

People and/or entities who's true intention is to kill the thing in question because it threatens their own interests. Sadly, as we are seeing with other matters here in the US, often people of a given political and/or religious persuasion are deliberately drawn in, as agents of chaos, to help try to permanently prop up that person, people's, entity's, or entities' vested interests.

Personally, I've absolutely not a thing against electric cars. The oil industry killed the effort back in the 70s, and had that either not happened or not been successful, we would all now be driving very advanced electric cars, trucks, etc.

I think what Illinois is trying is very stupid and ill-advised, and that the voters there should throw everyone involved in this out of office in the next election cycle in favor of actually educated and informed folk who will work towards, and not against, the future.
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