Humanity's First Legitimate Image of a Black Hole...

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rene
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Re: Humanity's First Legitimate Image of a Black Hole...

Post by rene » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:12 am

I do not see how that makes sense. Foregoing that what we see is not a corona, the event horizon is the sphere around an "object" inside of which the escape velocity exceeds the speed of light. I'd be quick to allow for unintuitive effects due to curvature of space in such regions but that's seemingly not what you are referring to; I don't see why the region would to us appear as anything but a black sphere. I.e., why would you feel you can "look through it", if that's what you are suggesting?

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Re: Humanity's First Legitimate Image of a Black Hole...

Post by lsemmens » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:27 am

I'm suggesting that we must not see the black bit because the light generated by the objects that are in the process of being drawn in but not yet on the event horizon should be blocking out the blackness. Given that we can see a corona of light around the black centre, why is it that we can see any blackness? I'm certain that the light that we do see is not only on a plane that we can see. I would expect that the light that is being drawn into said black hole is being drawn in in a spherical pattern, not a circular one.
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rene
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Re: Humanity's First Legitimate Image of a Black Hole...

Post by rene » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:50 am

Yes, it's not in fact any longer clear to me why it would NOT be clear what was meant; why I'd think you'd suggest we'd see the back rather than simply the front.

I suppose the bit about it not being a corona, i.e., not an "atmosphere", is the important bit then though. We're looking at gas falling into the hole, but space is actually very empty; it's not like the hole is in the midst of a gigantic field of matter, sucking up particles from all directions simultaneously. The gas we're seeing swallowed just happens to fall into it from "the back / bottom" (quotes due to allowing for the image to in fact be rotated such that the shape is visible as is; we're after all not looking at a literal visible-light photo but a reconstruction into that spectrum of lower wavelengths; seems quite possible to reconstruct rotated).

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Faust
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Re: Humanity's First Legitimate Image of a Black Hole...

Post by Faust » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:23 am

xenopeek wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:54 am
"Knowledge equals profit." — 74th Rule of Acquisition
Now that , I do remember !

I loved the original Kirk/Spock era Star Trek from day one , and I also enjoyed the later spin-offs ,
but I'm sure that I don't qualify as a real " Trekkie" .

I truly never realized how serious some folks were about all of this stuff , until the day I got into a hotel elevator
and it was occupied by three Klingons .

[ Only one of them was in Star Fleet uniform though .... was that a significant observation ? ]
:D
" And so it goes " - Kurt Vonnegut
The modern reality and the satirical parody are rapidly converging .

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Re: Humanity's First Legitimate Image of a Black Hole...

Post by Pippin » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:50 pm

Everything is electric.

rene
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Re: Humanity's First Legitimate Image of a Black Hole...

Post by rene » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:50 pm

Pippin wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:50 pm
Fits in here:
Not without an accompanying word of warning, since to someone like me, interested and with some knowledge of physics and cosmology yet neither a physicist nor cosmologist, the say first three quarters of the first video you posted actually appear somewhat interesting. Admittedly the last quarter (and certainly the second video) already raise enough red flags all on their own but I did still waste some time before being able to lob your links in with all the rest of the ego-fueled, anti-establishment conspiracy-theory drivel out there on this here beautiful internet of ours.

As such, if you visit the above two links by Pippin, please also visit the below two.

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4651
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... -thornhill

Allow me to quote the latter..
But the problem is that most fringe ideas don't turn out to be revolutionary. They just turn out to be wrong. And equating pseudoscience, or even just bad science, with solid science isn't just unorthodox. It can be dangerous.

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Re: Humanity's First Legitimate Image of a Black Hole...

Post by rene » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:10 am

lsemmens wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:27 am
I would expect that the [matter] that is being drawn into said black hole is being drawn in in a spherical pattern, not a circular one.
Was just now reading up a bit and it seems that above expectation is explicitly wrong; that a black hole much like other (spinning) objects acquires a flattened "accretion disk" --- think of e.g. planetary planes as well --- and that this is what we're looking at.

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Re: Humanity's First Legitimate Image of a Black Hole...

Post by lsemmens » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:44 am

Of course, that makes sense. I wasn't thinking about the black hole spinning, sorta like you never think about the moon spinning or the Sun, for that fact. Duh!!!!
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Re: Humanity's First Legitimate Image of a Black Hole...

Post by BG405 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:59 pm

rene wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:10 am
a black hole much like other (spinning) objects acquires a flattened "accretion disk"
Exactly my thoughts too. Some of these apparently spin at a phenomenal rate.
lsemmens wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:44 am
I wasn't thinking about the black hole spinning, sorta like you never think about the moon spinning or the Sun, for that fact.
Re. the moon & sun, that's quite understandable. I suspect that many forget that the moon DOES spin .. one rotation per orbit. Many also mention "the dark side" when they actually mean "the far side", although the former held true for the past couple of nights (full moon .. need to shave any exposed skin & try not to show my teeth ..). Not sure how fast the Sun spins without going back on the space sites .. but if I do, I'll be there for hours & won't get anything else done. :roll:

I've been into "space" stuff since early primary school, BTW. When asked about what my interests were, around 5 or 6, I replied "space"; the reply was "You can't say that, people will think you're stupid" .. not realizing that I actually meant "Outer Space" ..? :?

.. Mind you, first year of secondary school, during a parents' meeting, the tutor mentioned having computers as teachers in the future, and whether it was a good idea .. I replied "Yes, so we can pull the plug out". :mrgreen: See, I've always been nuts.

Great to see such progress in these fields of research. I'm also eager for the next Mars lander to get there, after its delays. We might also be back on the moon in the near future!
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