Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Chat about just about anything else
gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8738
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by gm10 » Wed May 08, 2019 11:08 am

Reorx wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:24 am
gm10 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:57 pm
webserver-win-linux.png

Try again...
The only current stat I could find was this >>>
Yours is all the *nixes. I used Linux only, because that's what that post above mine was claiming.

Source on the same site: https://w3techs.com/technologies/compar ... os-windows ;)

User avatar
Reorx
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3931
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: SE Florida, USA

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by Reorx » Wed May 08, 2019 1:22 pm

gm10 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:08 am
Reorx wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:24 am
gm10 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:57 pm
webserver-win-linux.png

Try again...
The only current stat I could find was this >>>
Yours is all the *nixes. I used Linux only, because that's what that post above mine was claiming.

Source on the same site: https://w3techs.com/technologies/compar ... os-windows ;)
Fair enough... although the last time I looked it was 90+% Linux, like 5% BSD, and ~2% Win... I think part of the problem is the semantics of the site... but still, if ~30% of the total being MS is correct, that's still a huge increase over what was happening just a few years ago... It's so much of a change, I wonder about the voracity of their claim... just not enough to do any further digging... :mrgreen:
Full time Linux Mint user since 2011 - Currently running LM19 Cinnamon.

Image Image

gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8738
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by gm10 » Wed May 08, 2019 1:44 pm

Reorx wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:22 pm
Fair enough... although the last time I looked it was 90+% Linux, like 5% BSD, and ~2% Win... I think part of the problem is the semantics of the site... but still, if ~30% of the total being MS is correct, that's still a huge increase over what was happening just a few years ago... It's so much of a change, I wonder about the voracity of their claim... just not enough to do any further digging... :mrgreen:
Oh I wouldn't know, but I'm quite certain it was never as low as 2%, at least not according to any reputable statistic on IIS market share that I've ever seen. But as you know, 75.9% of all statistics are made up. Like you, I don't care enough to further investigate.

User avatar
Reorx
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3931
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: SE Florida, USA

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by Reorx » Wed May 08, 2019 4:20 pm

gm10 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:44 pm
...But as you know, 75.9% of all statistics are made up.
I dunno - I thought it was more like 86.34%! :lol:
Full time Linux Mint user since 2011 - Currently running LM19 Cinnamon.

Image Image

User avatar
jimallyn
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8945
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:34 pm
Location: Wenatchee, WA USA

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by jimallyn » Thu May 09, 2019 2:58 am

The statistics vary, depending upon who is providing them. In any case, I'd say the chances that you can do anything on the web without your data passing through at least one Linux device are pretty slim. A lot of people's data goes through a Linux device the moment it hits their router.
Image

“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan

User avatar
lsemmens
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2348
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:07 pm
Location: Rural South Australia

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by lsemmens » Thu May 09, 2019 4:49 am

Actually ALL statistics are made up. None of them portray reality, all are just selective in the information that they portray.
Kernel: 4.15.0-46-generic x86_64 bits
Desktop: Cinnamon 3.8.9
Distro: Linux Mint 19 Tara

Laptop HP-ProBook-470-G2 8Gb RAM SSD
Server AMD Phenom 9650 - GEForce 9400GT 6Gb RAM
+ three other Mint machines
Out of my mind - please leave a message

User avatar
catweazel
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9216
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Linux news: Hell has frozen over

Post by catweazel » Fri May 10, 2019 1:28 am

Windows 10 is getting a Linux kernel.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-1 ... ux-kernel/
Microsoft revealed that it has created an in-house custom-built Linux kernel which it will be including as part of Windows 10, starting with Insider test builds delivered this summer. That kernel will provide the underpinnings for Microsoft's Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) 2.0 feature. This will be the first time that Linux will be included as a component in Windows, Microsoft officials noted in a May 6 blog post.
Last edited by xenopeek on Fri May 10, 2019 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: same topic; merged here
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

Hoser Rob
Level 14
Level 14
Posts: 5441
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:57 am

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by Hoser Rob » Fri May 10, 2019 10:55 am

I've actually been expecting this because it makes sense for them. This isn't much different from what Apple did with OS X, though they used a Mach kernel, which is pretty similar. Google has been using a Linux kernel with a closed wrapper for years.

rene
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3687
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: The upcoming version of Windows 10 will feature a real Linux kernel in it as part of Windows Subsystem for Linux (WS

Post by rene » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:52 pm

Technically it's in fact significantly less interesting than WSL1 which layered an entire Linux userspace on top of the POSIX susbsystem of regular Windows. You need a pretty darn impressive POSIX subsystem for that, whereas this new setup means basically just a specialized VM. In that very same sense it's in fact also legally/commercialy much less of note. I.e., distributing a Linux kernel to run in a VM is certainly quite alright, whereas a POSIX subsystem as capable as that would sooner start to raise potential licensing issues.

So frankly I'm not sure why people find this to be big news, or at least, bigger than WSL1. Running a Linux distribution in a VM on Windows has been par for the course for many people quite some time. Sure, it'll now be "more neatly" integrated it seems, but technically, WSL1 is/was the much more interesting feat.
Last edited by xenopeek on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: merged here from similar topic

User avatar
trytip
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3581
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:20 pm

Re: The upcoming version of Windows 10 will feature a real Linux kernel in it as part of Windows Subsystem for Linux (WS

Post by trytip » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:28 pm

so are you gonna be a customer of microsoft using licensed linux, or are you a customer of just linux and windows on the side!
this is all fine and dandy in the new virtual world, the question still remains where are you spending most of your time ? windows or linux ? with great power comes great responsibility right ? will microsoft be trusted with responsibility and accountability ? microsoft got tired developing a closed OS so most of it's developers are antsy and wish to experiment which i don't mind at all if it's purely for creating a better OS with no tracking. but if the same sneaky approach is achieved in allowing linux kernel to run on windows, who gives a crap about linux in winders, huh.
Last edited by xenopeek on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: merged here from similar topic
Image

WesternSlope
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 218
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:32 am
Location: Westslope of Colorado

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by WesternSlope » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:31 am

I have windows in a dual boot on one system, so I can run my IP cams. Linux really doesn't have an app to run IP cams without paying big bucks and the rest of the systems Mint only, so no on running Microsoft crap unless I have to.
Thanks

User avatar
Portreve
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2007
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Linux news: Hell has frozen over

Post by Portreve » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:17 am

catweazel wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:28 am
Re: Linux news: Hell has frozen over
Actually, that already happened in 1994 when The Eagles (kinda sorta) reunited. :lol:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-1 ... ux-kernel/
Microsoft revealed that it has created an in-house custom-built Linux kernel which it will be including as part of Windows 10, starting with Insider test builds delivered this summer. That kernel will provide the underpinnings for Microsoft's Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) 2.0 feature. This will be the first time that Linux will be included as a component in Windows, Microsoft officials noted in a May 6 blog post.
This should be rather interesting. If all the long-term-loyalty-card-carrying MSfit employees are gone, I could potentially see the current generation of Microsoft software engineers saying, assuming things work out really well, “Screw¹ it. Let's just use this for the system kernel going forward, and then we'll just build a Windows compatibility layer [just like Apple did two decades earlier² for Mac OS software in Mac OS X that we don't know about because basically nobody has that breadth and depth of knowledge or knows anything about history that they weren't forced to speed-learn and regurgitate for standardized testing when they were in the K-12 process³] and just have adaptation specialists maintain our customized kernel and call it good.”


¹ Clearly, this is not literally the phrase I had in mind, but LMF is *supposed to be* a family-friendly board.
² Apple introduced the Classic Environment in Mac OS X 10.0, and ultimately discontinued it when Mac OS X 10.4 was succeeded by Mac OS X 10.5.
³ For many years in the U.S., it has been (and possibly used to be, depending on the state) standard procedure to teach kids using as close to a cookie-cutter pedagogy as possible, with constant testing on a daily, weekly, and quarterly basis, and basically teaching to the test, passing or failing of which is the final arbiter of whether or not a student moves on to the next grade level. May it come as absolutely no surprise to anyone on this message board that I'm not a fan of what's happened to education in my country over the course of the last 30 years.
I'm so down wit' dat', yo, dass ich unter dem Beton bin.

Presently rocking LinuxMint 19.2 Cinnamon.

Remember to mark your fixed problem [SOLVED].

All in all, you're just another brick in the wall.

User avatar
thx-1138
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1845
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:15 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: The upcoming version of Windows 10 will feature a real Linux kernel in it as part of Windows Subsystem for Linux (WS

Post by thx-1138 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:33 am

rene wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:52 pm
.....
So frankly I'm not sure why people find this to be big news, or at least, bigger than WSL1.
.....
...the very exact same day WSL2 was announced & further hyped all over the internet (6 May),
.NET 5 was announced as well (see here also)...
This promise of a certain 'convergence' of sorts...'one .NET-to-rule-them-all' if i could put it this way,
is in my humble view, in terms of what is to be expected in the future from simple Linux end-users,
probably way more interesting than the various Windows10-centric WSL's incarnations themselves...
When such becomes the standard norm in a few yrs down the road,
at least a certain level of cross-platform code 'portability' (if not app compatibility) is to be expected:
what Mono couldn't achieve in the past for a variety of reasons (technical, ideological, licencing etc etc),
it kinda appears that MS itself will more or less bring on the table anytime soon...

I think it's quite revealing from MS' side that they announced both of the above on the very same day,
in terms of how they themselves envision the future...

User avatar
Portreve
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2007
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by Portreve » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:53 am

lexqbit wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:29 am
I never trust Microsoft and Never will, I am 99,99% sure they sale user data, since they got LinkedIn I get emails from companies that "found me" on LinkedIn even when me email is private, same with github.I personally left Windows fully in 2007/08 and I am going back.
I really hope companies will trully support Linux in the future, but I will not trust Microsoft ever (same with social media companies and Adobe), companies like Microsoft always have a hidden agenda, remember Netscape?

Regards. Lex
I think the proprietary software model had its place and was probably even a necessary evil at some point. However, as we advance away from tribalism and warfare, there's a lot of other things in our collective psychological baggage as a species which need to go; one amongst thousands is proprietary software.

For me, none of this is about price. Yes, "free" in the sense of money is a nice little bonus, but full public transparency is to me one of the most important things, whether it has to do with source code or politics or business or a myriad of other things.
Last edited by Portreve on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm so down wit' dat', yo, dass ich unter dem Beton bin.

Presently rocking LinuxMint 19.2 Cinnamon.

Remember to mark your fixed problem [SOLVED].

All in all, you're just another brick in the wall.

gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8738
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by gm10 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:57 am

Portreve wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:53 am
However, as we advance as a species away from tribalism and warfare,
Have you seen the news lately? We seem to be going in the opposite direction...
Last edited by gm10 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tune up your LM 19.x: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

User avatar
Portreve
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2007
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by Portreve » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:58 am

gm10 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:57 am
Portreve wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:53 am
However, as we advance as a species away from tribalism and warfare,
Have you seen the news lately? We seem to be going in the opposite direction...
Oh, I'm not at all disagreeing with that. The only real meaningful guard against regression is education.
I'm so down wit' dat', yo, dass ich unter dem Beton bin.

Presently rocking LinuxMint 19.2 Cinnamon.

Remember to mark your fixed problem [SOLVED].

All in all, you're just another brick in the wall.

gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8738
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Microsoft will ship Linux Kernel in Win 10's WSL

Post by gm10 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:59 am

Portreve wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:58 am
The only real meaningful guard against regression is education.
:!:
Tune up your LM 19.x: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

rene
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3687
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: The upcoming version of Windows 10 will feature a real Linux kernel in it as part of Windows Subsystem for Linux (WS

Post by rene » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:59 pm

thx-1138 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:33 am
what Mono couldn't achieve in the past for a variety of reasons (technical, ideological, licencing etc etc),
it kinda appears that MS itself will more or less bring on the table anytime soon...
Good point. I in one of these threads (maybe this one; who knows after all this merging...) argued that both bash on Windows (WSL1) and PowerShell on Linux were likely more about luring over (net-)developers that are due to practical reasons currently on Linux --- more than you'd think as a desktop user... --- by providing them with a similar user-experience on Windows. .Net does not really feature in my conscious mind but that (still) blowing goats on Linux is another nudge in that direction.

Although... didn't I read something about .Net (i.e., Microsoft's, not the Mono horseshit) being open-sourced and coming to Linux as well? If that's true and in fact happens, I'd want to start trusting a bit more it seems...

[EDIT] Pardon. When I in fact followed your link to the Microsoft announcement just now I saw what I was referring to in that last bit. Mmm.

gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8738
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: The upcoming version of Windows 10 will feature a real Linux kernel in it as part of Windows Subsystem for Linux (WS

Post by gm10 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:11 pm

rene wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:59 pm
Good point. I in one of these threads (maybe this one; who knows after all this merging...) argued that both bash on Windows (WSL1) and PowerShell on Linux were likely more about luring over (net-)developers that are due to practical reasons currently on Linux --- more than you'd think as a desktop user...
Not only luring them over but more importantly keeping them there. Microsoft's cloud business is mainly with Linux these days, they want to keep all those people on their OS even while they're doing Windows stuff. While Win NT has always had a decent POSIX subsystem, it wasn't good for any compiler work. Only with the ground-breaking WSL1 did you start having nearly seamless Linux integration (early filesystem woes aside that have since been resolved). I've been using it since the early days and it is extremely useful. And more painless to install than the real thing. ;)
rene wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:59 pm
Although... didn't I read something about .Net (i.e., Microsoft's, not the Mono horseshit) being open-sourced and coming to Linux as well? If that's true and in fact happens, I'd want to start trusting a bit more it seems...
Huh? .NET has been open-source for a very long time, originally on MSDN and since they bought GitHub it's there: https://github.com/dotnet. .NET Core has been available as a Linux build for a long time now, too, it's in Microsoft's repos (among many other things).
Tune up your LM 19.x: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

rene
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3687
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: The upcoming version of Windows 10 will feature a real Linux kernel in it as part of Windows Subsystem for Linux (WS

Post by rene » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:22 pm

gm10 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:11 pm
Huh? .NET has been open-source for a very long time, originally on MSDN and since they bought GitHub it's there: https://github.com/dotnet. .NET Core has been available as a Linux build for a long time now, too, it's in Microsoft's repos (among many other things). The only thing really missing as a Linux build is the full Visual Studio.
Yeah, sorry about that; .NET really does not feature in my conscious mind. I looked at it many, many moons ago using the at that time shiny new, "Platform convergence is here to stay!11!" Mono and put it all out of said conscious mind after a few days and upon finding it to be just another piece of the special place in hell reserved for those set on viewing/developing Linux as a drop-in replacement for "the real thing", i.e., Windows.

The specific announcement I was vaguely remembering above concerned your latter part, the core. Had planned to go look at it again then but haven't yet...

Post Reply

Return to “Open chat”