Forum postings and public domain

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gm10
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Forum postings and public domain

Post by gm10 »

rene wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:02 pm
Not going to check the forum rules but I'd need to be mistaken if any content posted on here doesn't automatically become "public domain" :)
Even if they did (which they do not), the forum rules cannot affect your rights as an author. So posts here most certainly do not become public domain. Not that that would be required for linking to a post, which was all that was asked for here as a courtesy.
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Post by rene »

Inability to sign away one's copyright is a specific German or perhaps by now EU law. Americans for example certainly can...

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Re: Disk full, unable to login. I need help

Post by gittiest personITW »

gm10 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:18 pm
rene wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:02 pm
Not going to check the forum rules but I'd need to be mistaken if any content posted on here doesn't automatically become "public domain" :)
Even if they did (which they do not), the forum rules cannot affect your rights as an author. So posts here most certainly do not become public domain. Not that that would be required for linking to a post, which was all that was asked for here as a courtesy.
rene wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:39 pm
Inability to sign away one's copyright is a specific German or perhaps by now EU law. Americans for example certainly can...
Cor, you lot are a happy bunch.
If I were to copy your words, and make it look as if I said it, that would be plagiarising, but as they are in the public domain (public forum), most likely not illegal, unless I were to make lots of money out of it. In that case, you might have a claim. Possibly.
However, with those millions of monies that I intend to make out of your wise words, I would fight it through the local, national, international courts, hoping that you run out of money before I do and have to give up the case.
However, were you to win, I would claim bankruptcy shortly after hiding my diamonds, gold and private yachts in a safe haven under an untraceable corporate identity.
Were you to chase that one down, it all starts over again.
I may be wrong though and you don't have a claim. In which case I'd have to remember the secret bank account numbers and get the crews to sail my yachts back to me carrying the diamonds, gold and helicopters.
If they have sense, they will steal the gold and diamonds, and run off with my harem in the helicopters leaving me to look for other words to copy from the internet.

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Re: Disk full, unable to login. I need help

Post by gm10 »

rene wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:39 pm
Inability to sign away one's copyright is a specific German or perhaps by now EU law. Americans for example certainly can...
I didn't mean to make this a discussion of common law vs civil law, considering we are already off-topic. In fact I specifically said "rights as an author" to stay impartial to the legal system that applies to you, because my answer applies to all of them. Or at least all of those that I know of, but that's quite a few. Under none of them can you lose your rights only due to some forum rules, that would be almost accidental. The only thing that may apply to you is the part you explicitly agree to when you register (and even those are not entirely valid in all jurisdictions, but that's besides the point).
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Re: Disk full, unable to login. I need help

Post by rene »

gm10 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:36 pm
The only thing that may apply to you is the part you explicitly agree to when you register
Obviously. What do you think I could've otherwise have referred to? (but I shan't be continuing this conversation).

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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by gm10 »

rene wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:51 pm
Obviously. What do you think I could've otherwise have referred to? (but I shan't be continuing this conversation).
/me looks up to the red banner that specifically says "Forum rules" but decides to say nothing...
Last edited by gm10 on Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by Moem »

Mod note:
This topic was split off from viewtopic.php?f=90&t=302383
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by rene »

gm10 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:54 pm
/me looks up to the red banner that specifically says "Forum rules" but decides to say nothing...
Well, fair enough (my eyes water over from purple on pink on green so I never notice those) but my phrasing "sign away" would've been a hint...

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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by BG405 »

As far as I'm concerned, anything I post here may be freely read, linked to, copied/quoted in part or in full etc. (or deleted, for that matter :roll:) otherwise it sort of defeats the object of participating on this (or any) Forum. I wouldn't consider it as giving up any rights; in fact, I regard it as freedom. Maybe we can apply GPL to our posts? :mrgreen:
rene wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:59 pm
my eyes water over from purple on pink on green
Mine too! :| Looks better with Simple Night Mode turned on though.
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by Portreve »

Anything I do not wish others to know, or anything I would prefer to make money from, I would never post publicly to begin with. QED.

That said, gittiest personITW, with your new-found millions, I will happily work aboard one of your lavish yachts, particularly if you keep it in or near Germany, as I would really appreciate the change of scenery from Flor-ih-duh.
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by Pjotr »

Litigation is fun! More people should do it. :mrgreen:

Interesting issue though. I happen to have an IP lawyer in my family; I'll try to get some advice on this.
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by rene »

This became more serious than originally intended through now being its own thread, but I'd doubt your IP-lawyer relative would say anything other than, you retain copyright on forum posting unless expressly waived (which is something you, arguably, can not do in some jurisdictions, can in others), but that this does not mean that the license you have implicitly provided by publicly posting it can be rescinded at will.

This stuff tends to come up in the context of disgruntled forum users leaving and demanding their posts be removed. As a matter of copyright, they can not. What they can in the context of privacy tends to be more; (in jurisdictions I'm aware of) also an online identity tends to count an identity in the sense of personally identifiable information and someone can withdraw permission for publishing personally identifiable information; this is for example how you can get Google to remove things. It however does not for a forum generally mean the forum needs to remove on request; it has its own interest as to for example keeping threads understandable. What always needs to be removed is actually personally identifiable information, but that doesn't normally include postings outright; it includes e.g. replacing the username with "user no longer a member" or some such, or removing only specific parts of postings.

Question more specifically here was whether or not copyright can be fully signed away in the first place. Famously, in Germany you can not, and as far as most people would argue, in e.g. the US you can. E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_do ... lic_domain. Personally, I'd have to say I'd have no idea what I "signed" when I registered here in the first place. First two paragraphs above amount to what I wanted to say: publicly posted content not being under my control to deny access to.

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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by Pjotr »

rene wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:37 pm
Question more specifically here was whether or not copyright can be fully signed away in the first place. Famously, in Germany you can not
Apparently not in The Netherlands either. At least the part that consists out of so-called "personality rights" (persoonlijkheidsrechten): nobody is allowed to do things with your creations that subtract from your worth as person or maker. Pretty vague, but some architects have successfully fought planned changes to "their" buildings on that basis....

The Creative Commons license looks like a smart way of bypassing nearly all restrictions, to some extent even the "personality rights" restrictions. But still not entirely.

It feels strangely uncomfortable and patronizing that Dutch law is protecting me from myself, on the matter of my own creations. IP law is weird. :shock:
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by catweazel »

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:55 am
(persoonlijkheidsrechten)
Scheldwoord!!!1!
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by gm10 »

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:55 am
rene wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:37 pm
Question more specifically here was whether or not copyright can be fully signed away in the first place. Famously, in Germany you can not
Apparently not in The Netherlands either.
Not in any civil law country, as I hinted at above.
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:55 am
The Creative Commons license looks like a smart way of bypassing nearly all restrictions, to some extent even the "personality rights" restrictions. But still not entirely.
I'm not following, or rather you are not. You are keeping your civil law author's rights under any license.
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:55 am
It feels strangely uncomfortable and patronizing that Dutch law is protecting me from myself, on the matter of my own creations.
That is the weirdest argument I've ever heard to be honest. The law gives you unalienable rights and you find that patronizing? Only that one or all of them?

Also it's not protecting you from yourself, it's protecting you from others, otherwise, as under common law, you'd be forced to sign away your rights by employers or others.
Last edited by gm10 on Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by Pjotr »

gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:09 am
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:55 am
The Creative Commons license looks like a smart way of bypassing nearly all restrictions, to some extent even the "personality rights" restrictions. But still not entirely.
I'm not following, or rather you are not. You are keeping your civil law author's rights under any license.
I am following. I mean bypassing the practical restrictions.
gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:09 am
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:55 am
It feels strangely uncomfortable and patronizing that Dutch law is protecting me from myself, on the matter of my own creations.
That is the weirdest argument I've ever heard to be honest. The law gives you unalienable rights and you find that patronizing? Only that one or all of them?
Not in general of course. I do find it patronizing on the issue of IP law, though. If I want to transfer (or remove) all IP rights pertaining to my own creations, why should the law stop me? I'm no child. Or does the state fear that my poor tender soul wouldn't be able to bear witnessing a potential subsequent mutilation of my creations?
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by gm10 »

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:16 am
Not in general of course. I do find it patronizing on the issue of IP law, though. If I want to transfer (or remove) all IP rights pertaining to my own creations, why should the law stop me? I'm no child.
I gave the reason above, because child or not, economic realities mean you will always have to sign those rights away. Besides, what reason could you have to want to remove them? What do you get from allowing everybody to claim that your works are actually theirs? So weird.

edit following your edits:
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:16 am
Or does the state fear that my poor tender soul wouldn't be able to bear witnessing a potential subsequent mutilation of my creations?
Exactly that - if somebody mutilates a work that identifies you as the author - so people will think that mutilation is part of your work and associate you with it - then you have the right to stop them. If your hardened soul does not care then you can simply choose not to act on your rights.
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:16 am
gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:09 am
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:55 am
The Creative Commons license looks like a smart way of bypassing nearly all restrictions, to some extent even the "personality rights" restrictions. But still not entirely.
I'm not following, or rather you are not. You are keeping your civil law author's rights under any license.
I am following. I mean bypassing the practical restrictions.
No, you are most certainly not following. The inalienable part is only about your moral rights as an author. The economic exploitation is not in any way meant to be affected, you are free to publish your works under any license you want.

And with license I don't mean some pre-existing license like CC, you don't need such elaborate things, you can just publish your work with a statement that everybody is free to do with it what they want and you're done. That way you divested yourself of all exclusive rights except for your unalienable moral rights to the work.
Last edited by gm10 on Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by catweazel »

gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:31 am
... unalienable moral rights.
What law defines such a nebulous thing?
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by gm10 »

catweazel wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:42 am
gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:31 am
... unalienable moral rights.
What law defines such a nebulous thing?
A number of them, so excuse me for just pointing you here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights
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Re: Forum postings and public domain

Post by catweazel »

gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:48 am
catweazel wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:42 am
gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:31 am
... unalienable moral rights.
What law defines such a nebulous thing?
A number of them, so excuse me for just pointing you here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights
Interesting. I've never heard of it before. Thank you. You are excused :mrgreen:
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