Only in Texas....

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Lady Fitzgerald
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Re: Only in Texas....

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Night Wing wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:17 pm
SMG wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:06 amBring in the snow to flush the toilets. Lake is probably frozen, so you'll have to thaw anyhow.

I read someone brought snow inside for toilet flushing, but it was not warm enough inside for it to melt because they still had no power. Another person said it was 37F inside the house. :shock: Someone else listed it being 23F in their house.
Both of our lakes are "not" frozen. I didn't think they would be since the larger lake is 16' deep. The ducks are paddling along on the water. At least we can now flush the toilets. When I went down to the lake 7:15 am this Tuesday morning, the outside air temperature was 6 degrees F.

We have a quite a few "alternative energy" types in our Texas legislature (House and Senate). With their propaganda, they championed those wind driven turbines out in west Texas so Texas gets 20%-25% of our electricity from those turbines. Many wind turbines "froze" early Monday morning and that is why the entire state of Texas power grid went down. Too much demand and not enough "juice". At my home we were without electricity for 19 hours and 18 minutes. We are still without water.

Texas has a lot of natural gas. Texas still gets 45% of it's electricity from natural gas. Natural gas is "reliable" and we have lots of it still in the ground in Texas. We could power our state's electrical grid for the next 80 years with natural gas. I have always said wind turbines were "suspect" in extreme weather like we are having at the moment. But the alternative energy types said I was a "luddite". Well, the extreme cold weather Texas has ever seen has now proven me correct.

This morning on the Texas "grapevine", a lot of Texas residents want those wind turbines "moth balled" as well. If the Texas residents have their way, I think more natural gas plants will be built to replace those unreliable wind turbines and this way we will have about 65% (or more) of our electrical needs back on natural gas where it was at one time.

I can't wait until November of 2022 comes around. All those "alternative types" up for re-election in the Texas House and Senate, they will be sent "packing" because Texas residents are going to remember this debacle for a very long time. Texas residents are hopping mad right now. PO'd to the max. It will not matter if the alternative energy types are democrat or republican in the Texas legislature. They will be gone.
See this video for more on how the wind generators are NOT the problem! https://youtu.be/-96D-H3M0a8
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Power is back on for a few, so I have internet. Roads suck, but more snow tonight, then a warming trend over the weekend. The Lemur Pro is still charged!
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:25 am
Pjotr wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:42 am ...Natural gas, being a globally widely available "semi-green" fossil fuel, can tilt us over until then. That's the rational, cheap and effective way for energy transition...
No, natural gas is not even semi-green. Burning anything releases carbon dioxide, etc. into the atmosphere, adding to our current greenhouse effect that is fueling global warming and climate change. The sooner we can quit being dependent on fossil fuels--natural gas, oil, coal--the better off we will be.
Yes it is. It's the ideal fossil fuel for the transitional phase: it has a relatively low carbon emission. Also, with the combustion of natural gas, a lot less fine dust, nitrogen, sulphur and other emissions are released. When compared with coal and oil energy plants.

Plus the global natural gas reserves are good for another couple of hundred years, so there's a very wide margin if the development of large-scale green nuclear energy would take longer than the expected 30 years.

Like the German Economy minister Altmaier said in 2019: "Gas ist sexy" (natural gas is sexy). The German government is rolling it out widely over the country, in order to replace oil and coal. Because of climate change and all that, because its the only reasonable large-scale alternative for coal, even though natural gas is only "semi-green".

It's really as simple as that. Texas would do both itself and the world no favour if it wouldn't pump up its natural gas. Quod erat demonstrandum.
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Pjotr wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:28 pm
Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:25 am
Pjotr wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:42 am ...Natural gas, being a globally widely available "semi-green" fossil fuel, can tilt us over until then. That's the rational, cheap and effective way for energy transition...
No, natural gas is not even semi-green. Burning anything releases carbon dioxide, etc. into the atmosphere, adding to our current greenhouse effect that is fueling global warming and climate change. The sooner we can quit being dependent on fossil fuels--natural gas, oil, coal--the better off we will be.
Yes it is. It's the ideal fossil fuel for the transitional phase: it has a relatively low carbon emission. Also, with the combustion of natural gas, a lot less fine dust, nitrogen, sulphur and other emissions are released. When compared with coal and oil energy plants.

Plus the global natural gas reserves are good for another couple of hundred years, so there's a very wide margin if the development of large-scale green nuclear energy would take longer than the expected 30 years.

Like the German Economy minister Altmaier said in 2019: "Gas ist sexy" (natural gas is sexy). The German government is rolling it out widely over the country, in order to replace oil and coal. Because of climate change and all that, because its the only reasonable large-scale alternative for coal, even though natural gas is only "semi-green".

It's really as simple as that. Texas would do both itself and the world no favour if it wouldn't pump up its natural gas. Quod erat demonstrandum.
You still don't get it. Yes, burning gas is better than burning oil and coal but it still pumps CO2 into the air, something that has reached the point of rapidly destroying our planet. The sooner we realize it and start curtailing our use of gas instead of increasing it, the better we, as a species, have a chance of surviving instead of slowly barbecuing ourselves, especially since we are approaching the point of no return.
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:09 pm Pollution issues from burning fossil fuels aside (which have also contributed to climate change and the current weather crisis), what is going to happen 80 years from now when the gas runs out? The time to prepare for that is now before it becomes a crisis. Thinking only about current needs and not preparing for the future (including reducing pollution and reversing climate change before it's too late, which it almost is already) will only lead to disaster.
Thank you, LF.
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Being ideological just feels so much warmer and better than being coldly practical. That's the curse of mankind.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Ok, I've let this go for a while because I was waiting for an actual legitimate debate to appear, and so that I would have something not exclusively related to politics with which to engage.

I'm very much a proponent of the T.S. Elliot school of motivation, as illustrated by the following, famous passage:

“The last temptation is the greatest treason:
To do the right deed for the wrong reason.”

I don't believe using Natural Gas because it's not a "tree hugger"-type power source is right, correct, or proper. Incidentally, I also don't believe Natural Gas is a truly good solution on the merits because of it still being a polluting hydrocarbon, as well as it having a finite remaining quantity.

Now, all that said, seriously putting resources into anything beyond coal and hydrocarbons (howsoever produced) is still relatively in its infancy, so clearly we're not yet to a point where other, better solutions can take over the power grid "next Tuesday", so to speak. Therefore, yes, I get it that we still have to do a lot of what we've been doing right along as at least a holdover until we can fully replace it. Nevertheless, we would be irresponsible not to force the matter.

That said, there are those who will use anything as an excuse to justify looking backward. The rest of us, and it doesn't matter precisely where on the spectrum of existing <--> alternative sources one stands, have to understand not everyone is playing by the same rules here, whether it's in discussions like this one here on LMF, or within industry or in the Halls of Government. Again, see my T.S. Elliot quotation above.

We are ultimately going to need a composite power grid of things like thorium reactors (if we can make those viable), wind, geothermal, solar, and maybe even gigawatt downloads of power in the form of tightly focused microwave beams from solar-collecting satellites to remote (and therefore safe) locations around the globe. That electricity is "the future" isn't anything new; it's that we need to motivate and thereby "force" (so to speak) innovations and implementations of those innovations into deployment and use. Every day which goes by, every month, and every year, doesn't just bring the doom of Climate Change closer, it continues to grow and extend and enhance our powers of perception, contemplation, and design and engineering, which means we rightfully should expect ourselves as a species to march ahead.
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Portreve wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:36 pm I don't believe using Natural Gas because it's not a "tree hugger"-type power source is right, correct, or proper.
The irony is, that one of the main reasons why I'm strongly in favour of natural gas as transitional energy source on the road to green nuclear, is precisely because I am a tree lover. I love the woods and the forests, and I spend a lot of time in them, hiking, biking and walking. They're vital for my well-being.

But the biomass crowd is cutting down trees in unprecedented quantities worldwide, because (apart from fossil and nuclear) burning wood is the only way to stabilize the wobbly solar and wind energy production.

Somehow the biomass crowd (the signers of the infamous Paris climate agreement included) fails to see that burning an entire mature tree in the wood oven of a power plant in 10 minutes, can't be compensated by planting a tree seed that will produce another mature tree in 20 years. :shock:

Massive deforestation is already taking place because of this, both in the Americas and in Europe. In spite of all the "sustainability certificates" and their paper reality. Furthermore, valuable primeval forests are being cut down and replaced by production forests. It's a tragedy.
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Pjotr wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:04 pm Somehow the biomass crowd (the signers of the infamous Paris climate agreement included) fails to see that burning an entire mature tree in the wood oven of a power plant in 10 minutes, can't be compensated by planting a tree seed that will produce another mature tree in 20 years. :shock:
What are you talking about? We have instant tree growers here in the U.S. Doesn't everybody? :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Pjotr wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:04 pm
Portreve wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:36 pm I don't believe using Natural Gas because it's not a "tree hugger"-type power source is right, correct, or proper.
The irony is, that one of the main reasons why I'm strongly in favour of natural gas as transitional energy source on the road to green nuclear, is precisely because I am a tree lover. I love the woods and the forests, and I spend a lot of time in them, hiking, biking and walking. They're vital for my well-being.

But the biomass crowd is cutting down trees in unprecedented quantities worldwide, because (apart from fossil and nuclear) burning wood is the only way to stabilize the wobbly solar and wind energy production.

Somehow the biomass crowd (the signers of the infamous Paris climate agreement included) fails to see that burning an entire mature tree in the wood oven of a power plant in 10 minutes, can't be compensated by planting a tree seed that will produce another mature tree in 20 years. :shock:

Massive deforestation is already taking place because of this, both in the Americas and in Europe. In spite of all the "sustainability certificates" and their paper reality. Furthermore, valuable primeval forests are being cut down and replaced by production forests. It's a tragedy.
Where do you get this stuff? :roll:

Yes, biofuel can be, and frequently is, made from tree wood wastes, such as the bark chipped off before cutting into lumber or pulping for paper, and from sawdust and wood chips from processing trees for lumber, plywood, etc. However, most tree sawdust and chips gets used for particle board, MDF, HDF, OSB, etc. Trees are not cut down solely for making biomass fuel. Most deforestation occurs when land is cleared for farming or to build housing or from over-harvesting trees for lumber, etc.

There is nothing wrong with production forests. Lumber and other wood products are a renewable resource when the forests are properly maintained and harvested in a sustainable manner. As far as the environment and nature in general is concerned, properly managed production forests are no different than primeval forests.

Most woody biofuel comes from the stalks of grains that would otherwise be wasted. Even then, plowing under the stalks instead of harvesting them helps to rejuvenate the nutrients depleted by the crop.

Corn is most popular source of biofuel (mostly alcohol). There has been plenty of surplus corn that can be, and is, used for that but it still has the disadvantage of having to be burned to extract the energy from it, which adds to global warming.

And again, when you refer to wobbly solar and wind energy, you are living in the past (much like Michael Moore). Solar can be used during the day to generate power to cover peak loads, reducing the amount of other generating capacity facilities needed. More recently, solar energy can be, and is being, stored for periods when sunlight is being stored. CA has a large pilot concentrating plant operating in the desert between Blight and Desert Center visible north of I-10 (I've driven by it multiple times). That plant uses solar concentrators to heat a transfer fluid that then is used to transfer the heat to molten salts in underground tanks. The stored heat can be used later to make steam for power generation. The two units use air cooled cooling towers (those suckers are humongous) to pretty much eliminate water usage other than the startup amount.

There are also two large and one smaller PV (Photovoltaic) farms visible from the highway. One possibility is the concentrating farm can be used to collect heat during the day, then use that heat to generate the electricity the PV farms can't generate at night.

One advantage of solar panels is they can be used for onsite power generation (and have been for decades). ASU has panels on the roofs of almost every structure of the main campus. You see a lot of them elsewhere in the Phoenix metro area. Onsite PV cells can be used to reduce the load on the electrical grid during the day and, with some kind of storage scheme, can even provide power for several days if the sun takes a vacation. I saw an episode of Ask This Old Mansion...er...Ask This Old House about a program in Hawaii that is encouraging, or requiring, new homes to have solar panels and storage batteries. It has been successful.

Storage for solar and wind generated energy has come a long ways. Beside the molten salts I've already mention, batteries, pumped storage (pumping water uphill, then releasing it later to generate electricity), etc. are being explore and, in many places, are already in use.

While solar and wind farms cost more to build than gas generation, they can be built just as fast, if not faster than gas generation plants. They can be generating electricity just as soon, if not sooner, than the gas plants. And, they do not pollute and add CO2 to the air, something that makes their higher initial cost more than worthwhile. They also do not require that gas be piped to them.
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Well I must state that I could care less where my energy comes from so long as I have power to keep the food cold, the house warm, the internet (and Netflix) working so I do not have to hear fussing from the spouse-unit and the kids.

One of my very best friends works on Wind Turbines, and he told me that they are inefficient at times due to engineering constraints. Plus he is tired of picking up all the carcasses of dead birds from around the towers. Just as I was going to post this our power went out AGAIN! So I am going to wait until the power comes back to post this. We are now getting boil notices for water.

My buddy also told me that things should be back to normal by late friday, I am writing this in the text editor on the Darter Pro since the Lemur is upstairs and it is what I had available.

Power on for now.
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Did I say it was cold in Dallas? Well, Tuesday morning it got even colder: -2°F (-19°C). Tied with 1949 for the second lowest temp. on record in Dallas - the lowest was -8°F (-22°C) back in 1899. We don't need to worry about global warming any more - it's ended! :lol:
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:18 pm
Pjotr wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:04 pm
Portreve wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:36 pm I don't believe using Natural Gas because it's not a "tree hugger"-type power source is right, correct, or proper.
The irony is, that one of the main reasons why I'm strongly in favour of natural gas as transitional energy source on the road to green nuclear, is precisely because I am a tree lover. I love the woods and the forests, and I spend a lot of time in them, hiking, biking and walking. They're vital for my well-being.

But the biomass crowd is cutting down trees in unprecedented quantities worldwide, because (apart from fossil and nuclear) burning wood is the only way to stabilize the wobbly solar and wind energy production.

Somehow the biomass crowd (the signers of the infamous Paris climate agreement included) fails to see that burning an entire mature tree in the wood oven of a power plant in 10 minutes, can't be compensated by planting a tree seed that will produce another mature tree in 20 years. :shock:

Massive deforestation is already taking place because of this, both in the Americas and in Europe. In spite of all the "sustainability certificates" and their paper reality. Furthermore, valuable primeval forests are being cut down and replaced by production forests. It's a tragedy.
Where do you get this stuff? :roll:
A short search of Google News turned up these tragic horror stories:

An article about the devastating consequences for the USA:
https://www.nrdc.org/resources/our-forests-arent-fuel

A dismal story in National Geographic about the Estonian forests:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... ee-farming

Many more corroborating stories, also about other areas on the planet:
https://news.mongabay.com/2020/08/are-f ... ng-surges/
https://news.mongabay.com/2021/02/500-e ... ke-energy/
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/ ... ts-biomass
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... es-forests
https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/opini ... st-550126/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -ecosystem

Furthermore, not all forests are created equal. A primeval forest has infinitely more ecological and biological value than a uniform production forest.

Europe is already burning up its own woods and even imported American woods. If the USA should stop using its natural gas, this horrible forest destruction will be accelerated even further. Massively accelerated. So please don't stop using the Texan natural gas reserves....
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Power is on, and lots of new snow. The kids are going nuts. The dogs HATE it. Now we have almost no water pressure, and are told to boil water.
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Re: Only in Texas....

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MurphCID wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:18 am Power is on, and lots of new snow. The kids are going nuts. The dogs HATE it. Now we have almost no water pressure, and are told to boil water.
And this is a first world country? :D
I read that your power outages are due to your wind turbines freezing up, but you only get 7% of your power needs from renewables?

I write this as our outside temp is 5C (41F), so yes, sat on the shaky moral high ground.
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Re: Only in Texas....

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Well we now have a busted pipe outside the house, I will have to wait for the thaw to see how bad it is, and what it is going to cost....
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Re: Only in Texas....

Post by csqwared »

This from the BBC World service:-
"Mr Abbott also told reporters that every source of power in Texas had been "compromised" - seemingly reversing earlier comments blaming renewable energy for the state's blackouts."

It would appear the high volume of usage in this unprecedented weather is the root cause of the outages.
I write this as our outside temp is 5C (41F), so yes, sat on the shaky moral high ground.
Yep, positively balmy here in comparison. Hopefully our 'bad spell' is behind us. Y'all have my sympathy. Good luck. :(
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Re: Only in Texas....

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AndyMH wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:23 pmAnd this is a first world country? :D
Texas leaders decided they didn't want their infrastructure regulated by the federal government, so they designed a power grid that is only in Texas. Not crossing the state line meant they could circumvent federal regulations.

Two parts of Texas, the panhandle (where my niece is) and the western tip (El Paso), are on the grids with the rest of the country. They have had power the entire time. I do not know about the panhandle, but El Paso said when something similar (but not as bad) happened in 2011 that they didn't want to be in the position again. Local leadership makes a difference!
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Re: Only in Texas....

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The natural gas delivery and consumption systems are failing in Texas as well, and this is where the vast majority of Texas electricity comes from. It's just the usual case of Southerners being unprepared for cold weather. Wind turbines and solar installations here in Vermont are working just fine and it has not been warmer than 20F for a few weeks, and as cold as minus 20F. There are thousands of functioning wind turbines in (very cold) Wyoming, where I went to university. To be fair, I fail when it hits 90F up here, but can always jump in the nearest stream to cool off.
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Re: Only in Texas....

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

SMG wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:21 pm
AndyMH wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:23 pmAnd this is a first world country? :D
Texas leaders decided they didn't want their infrastructure regulated by the federal government, so they designed a power grid that is only in Texas. Not crossing the state line meant they could circumvent federal regulations.

Two parts of Texas, the panhandle (where my niece is) and the western tip (El Paso), are on the grids with the rest of the country. They have had power the entire time. I do not know about the panhandle, but El Paso said when something similar (but not as bad) happened in 2011 that they didn't want to be in the position again. Local leadership makes a difference!
My sister lives in the panhandle and they never lost power or water (as of yesterday; I haven't had a chance to speak with her since) although they have been asked to conserve all utilities. What's odd is their local government has planned on joining the TX grid in about a week; we're hoping they change their minds. It's bad enough i'm worried about my son and his family elsewhere in TX. Last I heard (yesterday), they had power but still no water.
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