M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

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DAMIEN1307
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M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

I cannot believe that M$ even thinks they can sell this snakeoil to Linux users...Maybe they really need it but its still snakeoil to me...DAMIEN

Sounds more like "just drink the koolaid"

https://fossbytes.com/linux-to-get-micr ... irus-2020/
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Pjotr
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by Pjotr »

Now that's rich. :lol:
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by ajgringo619 »

Guess this means that MS will be porting its viruses to Linux as well. :)
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by gm10 »

I think it's good news. You can think of anti-virus software what you may, but Linux malware is a real thing and the state of available AV offerings for Linux is deplorable, with a number of support threads around here centering around issues caused by them, so Microsoft forcing everybody to up their game can only mean good things.
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by Pjotr »

gm10 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:43 pm
Linux malware is a real thing
Any infections "in the wild" that I've missed, which are both relevant for Linux desktop users and would have been cured by antivirus?
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by gm10 »

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:09 pm
gm10 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:43 pm
Linux malware is a real thing
Any infections "in the wild" that I've missed, which are both relevant for Linux desktop users and would have been cured by antivirus?
Not going to get into that other than pointing out that I already said that Linux AV is in a sorry state. That's why any improvement is a good thing in my book.

We both know that proper practices make an anti-virus software irrelevant but anti-virus software gets written for people with bad practices who would rather buy some peace of mind than mend their ways. :)
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by Pjotr »

gm10 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:13 pm
We both know that proper practices make an anti-virus software irrelevant but anti-virus software gets written for people with bad practices who would rather buy some peace of mind than mend their ways. :)
Yeah, well, installing AV in desktop Linux is in itself a bad practice. Key word: attack surface.

See this article, which is still relevant for the principle (although old):
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2459760/ ... -says.html

Background (slideshow from the researcher):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Pysh ... BNSHc/view
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by karlchen »

Hi, folks.

Seriously, folks, you are not really welcoming (Windows) antivirus snake-oil being transferred to Linux, are you?
Windows anti-virus products are meant to inspect Windows systems for malware designed to run on Windows.
Linux anti-malware products would require developing anti-malware from scratch, because the vast majority of malwere is / has to be platform specific.
So Windows defender ported to Linux will be of little protective use.
Like most antivirus products on Windows they will merely give you a false feeling of being secure.
My experience with antivirus on Windows suggests that Windows antivirus products have lost the race against criminal malware developers many years ago.
I have seen malware entering the company network and spreading and the well-known antivirus products, which are installed and kept up-to-date on each workstations and all Windows machines, just stood by not noticing anything.
Every time the infections were reported to the antivirus vendor. They would politely thank for the report and promise that detection of the new variant of malware xyz would be added to their antivirus database.
This game has happened three time or more often, because I may not have learned of all successful malware infections.
As apparently - or should I say obviously? - the self-assigned antivirus guardians never manage to catch any real malware, they have specialized on flagging system tools like Nir Sofer's application and the really phantastic task-manager Process Hacker as "well-known hack tools".
No, they are no hacktools, merely specialized powerful system tools. Or is anybody seriously suggesting to flag any big screwdriver as adangerous weapon, because you can misuse it as a knife and stab a person with it?
Really folks, all the established players in the antivirus game are only out there in order to make you pay for the false feeling of safety, which they sell to you. They are not able to protect you against malware really, let alone to protect you from system intruders.
As much as I agree that Linux systems need protection against intruders and against malicious software, the established players from the Windows market will never be the ones, who will bring this sort of expert protection to Linux.
So let them go where the sun does not shine. Protect Linux from these snake oil vendors.

Cheers,
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by gm10 »

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:26 pm
Yeah, well, installing AV in desktop Linux is in itself a bad practice. Key word: attack surface.
I disagree based on what I already said above. The users to benefit from AV software are the ones that already provide a massive attack surface, not the ones who know how to keep their systems safe. Am I personally using any anti-malware products? I certainly am not. Our opinions are not really far apart, see my quoted post here but in particular see the response (just the first paragraph): viewtopic.php?p=1710951#p1710951

karlchen: It's Microsoft Defender now and a multi-platform tool, no longer Windows-specific.
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by karlchen »

gm10 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:38 pm
karlchen: It's Microsoft Defender now and a multi-platform tool, no longer Windows-specific.
Oh, I see, "one-size-fits-all" - usually those things fit no-one at all. :wink:
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by gm10 »

karlchen wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:45 pm
Oh, I see, "one-size-fits-all" - usually those things fit nothing at all. :wink:
Well, we'll see next year how well they do. Can't be worse than Sophos Anti-Virus breaking kernel updates or ClamAV not detecting anything.
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karlchen
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by karlchen »

Yes, it can be worse, because every computer user knows Microsoft, because almost no enduser computer is sold without their operating system installed.
In the same way as quite a few of the normal endusers believe Windows were the only operating system on earth and that Microsoft Office were the only office suite on earth, which enabled them to write a letter or 2 per year, in the same way they may foolishly assume Microsoft Defender were simply protecting them from all the evil in the world. Windows Defender was no better than the rest of the snake-oil products, why should rebranding it to Microsoft Defender make it any better?
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by gm10 »

Well, the part about Windows being the only operating system obviously doesn't apply on Linux. But otherwise that is exactly my point. Microsoft entering that market with big brand recognition will hopefully lead to more competition and thus better products.
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

WOW, looks like i just dropped a bomb here...lol..."look who did it and ran"...DAMIEN
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by dorsetUK »

Luckily a picture paints a thousand words.

https://news.microsoft.com/de-de/linux-on-azure/

Funny things words.

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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

That pic brings to mind 2 different movies i saw back in the 80s...The Burning Bed and Fatal Attraction...lol...Thats my thoughts, for what they are worth, about M$ love affair with Linux...lol...DAMIEN
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by Flemur »

DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:29 pm
Sounds more like "just drink the koolaid"
https://fossbytes.com/linux-to-get-micr ... irus-2020/
This part of it - at least - is Fake News:
Article: "However, in recent times, Linux has seen several vulnerabilities being exploited in the wild."

Their link describes one bug which has not been exploited "in the wild".
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?

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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by coffee412 »

Personally, I do not want some half-baked company that is only interested in advertising dollars and collecting personal private information to port their software for linux.

Microsoft hates linux and its just an evil plot to destroy our way of life.
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by Portreve »

That'll be the day when I start putting Microsoft's crap on any system I own.

I mentioned elsewhere on this board that I'm planning on buying a new(er) system sometime in the next couple weeks. I was considering Dell's OptiPlex 9010, but now I'm strongly considering their 7020 instead. It comes with a hard drive with Windows 10, so the very first thing I'm doing is pulling that hard drive and setting it on a shelf somewhere and putting in a new SSD, because there's no way I'm going to run Windows or have any lingering traces of it anywhere inside that machine.

Seriously! Screw Microsoft. I never have and never will trust them.
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Re: M$ selling snakeoil to Linux Users.

Post by lsemmens »

Ah!! But................. Snake Oil cures all sorts of ills! :D I knew a person who's grandmother's cat use it....... :lol:
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