Acer's laptops are always broken...

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GS3
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by GS3 »

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:02 pm
Note that the brand name is fundamentally just a sticker. The big OEM's all buy their parts from just a few big manufacturers. All they do is fitting those parts together.
Not true at all.

DELL, HP and other have their own brand motherboards. All my HP and Dell computers report mobos of those brands. I am sure they don't make them and they are made by major mobo manufacturers. Most probably they are variations of other motherboards sold under the manufacturer's brand but they are not the same.

In the case of laptops I believe this is even more so or you would see that different brands would all look the same and would be equivalent.

Certain MS-Windows volume licenses can only be installed if it is the right mobo from the right manufacturer.

I don't know if they still do it but Dell used non-standard power supplies which, if I remember correctly, had the same connector for the mobo but the pins were changed around and had some non-standard pins. That motherboard required a compatible PSU which was a pain. I don't know if they still do it. If the PSU died you had to buy a replacement from the manufacturer.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

MartyMint wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:51 pm
Outside of System 76 and other vendor specific machines, Thinkpads may be the "gold standard" for Linux compatible devices...
Based on my and another member's experiences with System 76 machines, they and their alleged good support is greatly overrated.

After owning two Acer Aspire One XP netbooks (both of which permanently blackscreened on me), an Acer XP desktop (meh at best once the inferior parts that came in it were replaced), a lackluster Acer keyboard, and an Acer mouse (pure garbage!), you couldn't give me anything from Acer for anything other than target practice.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by Pjotr »

I've owned several Acer laptops and desktops in the past. All were of fine build quality and installing Linux on them was a cinch. I've also owned a Lenovo laptop which was of inferior build quality and installing Linux on it was difficult (but I managed it anyway).

Now what does this tell us about the Linux-friendliness and quality of Acer and Lenovo products in general? Absolutely nothing.

As said: all big OEM's are essentially assembly shops. They buy their chipsets and other components from just a few big manufacturers (mostly based in South-East Asia), assemble them, scatter some branding marks (stamps on the motherboard, BIOS adjustments, casing stickers) and Bob's your uncle.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by AndyMH »

Pjotr wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:00 am
BIOS adjustments
I think that is the key issue, underneath the components are the same, but whether a PC is linux friendly is down to the BIOS implementation. Look how many posts we get on boot problems with HP laptops.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by RollyShed »

GS3 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:55 am
I don't know if they still do it but Dell used non-standard power supplies which, if I remember correctly, had the same connector for the mobo but the pins were changed around and had some non-standard pins.
If we are talking desktop there, yes, everyone had pins 14 & 15 or 15 & 16 (can't remember off hand) to be shorted to make the power supply go but Dell had the pins at the end of the plug/socket as the start pins.

Also their back of the case socket layout spacing was different so a hacksaw and snips were needed to use their case with another mother board.

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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by GS3 »

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:02 pm
Note that the brand name is fundamentally just a sticker. The big OEM's all buy their parts from just a few big manufacturers. All they do is fitting those parts together.
Pjotr wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:00 am
As said: all big OEM's are essentially assembly shops. They buy their chipsets and other components from just a few big manufacturers (mostly based in South-East Asia), assemble them, scatter some branding marks (stamps on the motherboard, BIOS adjustments, casing stickers) and Bob's your uncle.
I have already addressed this and, as I said, you are very mistaken.

They don't "scatter some branding marks". They design a product which is their design and their product. The fact that in this product they incorporate some industry standard components is irrelevant. It is their design.

When a car manufacturer designs a car they will use standard parts like tires, alternators, light-bulbs, etc and they will design things like the gearbox in cooperation with a gear-box manufacturer who will then manufacture the gearbox. The fact that a Ford model incorporates industry standard parts and other components made by other manufacturers does not mean Ford is "just an assembly shop which scatters some branding marks on their cars". Unless the phrase is completely meaningless.

By the same token, when Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer, etc. design a computer they may incorporate industry standard parts but it is their design for wich they are responsible, not the manufacturers of the components. They will have a proprietary motherboard manufactured by a mobo manufacturer (duh!) but it is their responsibility.

You are buying an ACER (Dell, HP, whatever) computer which is guaranteed to work by that manufacturer who cannot say "if you have a problem with the PSU you can take it up with the PSU manufacturer". Just like when you buy a FORD automobile and it turns out to be crap you would sue Ford and not the manufacturer of the transmission that failed so badly.

We have to be careful with generalizing though. A manufacturer can go for the low end of the market and build cheap products all the time but it may also be that you just got a lemon or that a certain model line has certain problems not present in the others.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by Pjotr »

AndyMH wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:13 am
Pjotr wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:00 am
BIOS adjustments
I think that is the key issue, underneath the components are the same, but whether a PC is linux friendly is down to the BIOS implementation. Look how many posts we get on boot problems with HP laptops.
Not my experience....

Incidentally, there *is* a gripe that I *do* have about some modern HP laptops: in recent years, HP laptops with Realtek WiFi chipsets tend to have just one antenna on a Realtek WiFi card designed for two. This has caused many problems for Linux users, as the default antenna is usually the missing one.... Stingy HP wanting to save 10 bloody cents on the assembly costs. :twisted:
GS3 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:09 am
We have to be careful with generalizing though. A manufacturer can go for the low end of the market and build cheap products all the time but it may also be that you just got a lemon or that a certain model line has certain problems not present in the others.
This I agree with. But the only laptops I'd be wary of, are ultra-cheap Chinese laptops of unknown brands on Alibaba and such.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by ajgreeny »

I would suggest you forget about the maker's sticker on the machine and concentrate on the actual hardware items it uses. I know that can be difficult to be certain of, and manufacturers have a tendency to change things, eg wifi cards, just saying that it has a card of a particular type but with no detail of the chipset used which is much more important.

I have bought two laptops from a UK company, PC-Specialists, who will allow you to configure the hardware before you buy, and also sell them with no OS, a great saving of about £100. They are both Intel machines, using UEFI firmware, and both allow Linux installations with no problems of any sort, and both run beautifully with any distro I try on them.

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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by antikythera »

ajgreeny wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:49 am
I would suggest you forget about the maker's sticker on the machine and concentrate on the actual hardware items it uses.
That's how I ended up with my now 5 year old German built Fujitsu (since then they have also been bought out by Lenovo) and it worked flawlessly with Linux from day one and still does. Okay it's a bland and chunky 15.6" business oriented notebook but I could care less about how it looks, I'm more bothered how it works. So while I can cost effectively keep it working I will. When something fails that costs too much to bother replacing I will get a new laptop, so far it's been only cheap stuff like an ODD, battery and CPU fan.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by GS3 »

It is interesting to note the perception and value of a brand name. I have seen people overlook serious issues in a product because it has a good reputation so with a certain brand name it is "a good product with a glitch" while the same product with a cheap name would be "a piece of crap". I have seen this many times.

Many first rate brands, when they are no longer profitable, end up being sold to someone who uses it to sell crap. It shows how vulnerable we are to perceptions.

A Ford person will tolerate and justify any shortcomings on his Ford vehicle but the same thing in a foreign car would prove his belief that foreign cars are crap.

"What's in a name?" the poet asked.

"Much more than you think and a lot of money to be made" the marketing guy replied.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by Pjotr »

GS3 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:09 am
"What's in a name?" the poet asked.

"Much more than you think and a lot of money to be made" the marketing guy replied.
Spot on! Both true and funny. Made me laugh! :lol:
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by AZgl1500 »

I have an Acer Aspire 5253, and my daughter has a newish Acer that I gave her for Christmas 2 years ago.

I have tried every version of Mint on the 5253 and they all work just fine.

on the daughter's Acer, it has Peppermint on it, simply because I was trying to get a Linux that supports Microsoft Office w/o heartache.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by blockhead47 »

I was given and Acer Aspire M5. It originally had Windows 8 but was upgraded to Win 10.
I have been trying for 2 days to install LM20. I have given up. It is just not worth the trouble.

I have given it to my wife who loves it, running Win 10. I have not been able to convince her to make the switch to Linux.
I echo @Moem's comments. My personal experience, I have installed Linux on HP, Dell (no problems) and this Acer M5 (not successful).
The Acer always fails at the end of the Linux installation to hard disk but runs the live version just fine.

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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by Pjotr »

blockhead47 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:56 am
The Acer always fails at the end of the Linux installation to hard disk but runs the live version just fine.
Try this:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... s.html#ID4
(item 4)
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by antikythera »

Funny how these discussions end up with people trying to help folk with vaguely described install issues who couldn't give a rat's arse and have moved on :D
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by Pjotr »

antikythera wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:02 pm
Funny how these discussions end up with people trying to help folk with vaguely described install issues who couldn't give a rat's arse and have moved on :D
Your vinegar is spilling over, I see.... Lost the cork of the bottle? :lol:

1. You can't possibly know how definitive this "moved on" is.

2. It's a public forum, so there are other people who read this, today or at some point in the future. One or more of them might be helped by the workaround I've advised to try.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by antikythera »

Actually I can be sure as they said so :)
I have been trying for 2 days to install LM20. I have given up. It is just not worth the trouble.

I have given it to my wife who loves it, running Win 10. I have not been able to convince her to make the switch to Linux.
Also, anyone serious about needing help would open a proper thread of their own rather than commenting in a fairly clear example of someone apparently interested in buying a laptop but not saying which one.

aka lighting the fuse on an inflammatory topic of discussion and sitting back to watch the impending fireworks.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by Pjotr »

antikythera wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:37 pm
Actually I can be sure as they said so :)
No. One should never presume to know all about the immutability of a decision taken by someone else. So why don't you cork up that vinegar bottle and leave the commenting in this thread to people with constructive intentions?
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by GS3 »

I have had great trouble installing LM in several computers. In the end, with great persistence and with the help of this forum, I have always succeeded but I understand that many people would not want to invest so much time and effort.

Also, I do not blame LM for those problems as they are generally caused by the configuration of the computer when it was first sold, generally with MS-Windows. The reason the computer worked well with Windows and badly with Linux is that the manufacturer made it that way. Don't blame Linux, blame the manufacturer and MS who pushes them in that direction.

Still, if you already have a computer and you see the problems in getting LM to work I wouldn't blame you if you gave up.

Here is one thread where I spent a lot of time on a laptop and finally got it to work after much pain and suffering:
GS3 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:10 pm
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=317911

To summarise, a Toshiba Satellite C855D with AMD E300 processor with HD6310 integrated video, will not boot from a LIVE USB in UEFI mode and needs to be changed to CSM (legacy) mode.
I suppose EFI has some advantages but to me it has only given me problems when installing LM.

To me these things are challenges and entertainment But I understand people who would rather be doing something else.
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Re: Acer's laptops are always broken...

Post by AZgl1500 »

I, for one, have always appreciated Pjotr's efforts to provide the Big Picture, and he has helped me many a time on problems and I never once set foot on the thread where he was "helping others".
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