AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Chat about just about anything else
User avatar
Portreve
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 3385
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida

AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by Portreve »

I just read an article which talks about how AT&T had been sending out email and text messages to their customers that they will need to buy new phones if their present ones don't support 4G or 5G. This has panicked a lot of people because their messaging in this topic up to this point has basically been very vague and almost alarmist, with some customers even describing it as spam-like.

Nevertheless, the word is they, along with The other major carriers, are all doing this to evidently try to free up broadcast bandwidth. Of course, in reading this article, I'm stuck by two thoughts:

1. Will there be 4G/5G flip phones for all those out there who refuse to use a smart phone?

2. Non-VoLTE is a fallback for when you're not in a location with good enough reception for 4G service.

Are the carriers going to fix their present reception/coverage issues, or are more people simply going to be shut out of cell phone service? I have a friend who lives in NW Washington State. We have problems almost all the time with cell reception on her end. It's so bad that half of our phone calls to each other get dropped at some point.
Your humble Portreve.

Running Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.0

Problem solved? Mark your thread [SOLVED] | There’s no place like ::1
I used to be a natural people person, then people ruined it.

Recommended Keyboard Layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 14
Level 14
Posts: 5300
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by AZgl1500 »

AT&T announced that over a year ago.

some jerk up and decided to republish it, and wrote it in such a way that it sounded like all current phones would be junk.

when in truth, all cellphones for the last several years already have 4g capability.
there are precious few cellphones still in operation that only have 3g capability.

5g is a joke, it will only work in very small, compact Big Metro areas.....
the 5g signals on the higher frequency bands have a max range of a 1,000 feet or so.

T-Mobile has leased the 700 mHz frequency band from Dish Network to push a version of 5g nationwide.
but, in truth, they have not installed enough equipment to be of benefit to the masses.

5g will never be useful nationwide, the USA is just too huge in geographical areas with low population density.
Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon
User avatar
BenTrabetere
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:04 am
Location: Hattiesburg, MS USA

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by BenTrabetere »

Portreve wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:15 am
Are the carriers going to fix their present reception/coverage issues,
That damnear broke my Sarcasm-Meter, thankyouverymuch. :)

I am with Verizon, and I cannot get 3-bars in the Verizon store!
User avatar
Portreve
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 3385
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by Portreve »

Well, ok, that's fine, but it still does not address the part about only running vice through VoLTE. I mean, I love the audio quality difference, but if one is in a marginal area, right now it falls back to standard audio. If that capability is removed and reception otherwise is not improved, that means there's going to be a lot of dead areas where one will not be able to talk to anyone on their phone. This could easily have safety ramifications.
BenTrabetere wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:46 am
Portreve wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:15 am
Are the carriers going to fix their present reception/coverage issues,
That damnear broke my Sarcasm-Meter, thankyouverymuch. :)

I am with Verizon, and I cannot get 3-bars in the Verizon store!
Yikes!

I'm only indirectly an AT&T customer. I'm on the Straight Talk MVNO, and I choose to use the AT&T network because I get much better reception than on the T-Mobile network, and certain SMS-based services don't work right with them.

It would be pretty sad if reception sucked in the carrier's own store! :lol:

In my experience, where I live the only two really good carriers for coverage purposes are AT&T and Verizon.
Your humble Portreve.

Running Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.0

Problem solved? Mark your thread [SOLVED] | There’s no place like ::1
I used to be a natural people person, then people ruined it.

Recommended Keyboard Layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 14
Level 14
Posts: 5300
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by AZgl1500 »

I am using AT&T LTE with a 4g Channel Aggregation modem which feeds a WiFi router.

our cellphones are on Verizon with a shared 4g data plan,
2 phones and one "JetPack LTE modem" they call it, single channel, not Channel Aggregation.

AT&T restricts uploads to 10% of download speed, usually worse than that.

Verizon does not restrict uploads, but their data plan is horribly expensive.
so I just keep it at 2gB/month... we only use it for the cellphones to use.

At my home, I am in the "Cone of Silence" near a new tower that was just upgraded last month.
The VZW service was so bad, dropped calls and missing SMS text was frequent.
So, I had them give me a 4g Network Extender ( mini-cell tower ) which uses my AT&T LTE wireless internet service to link into the VZW system... ( a nice twist there :) )

we have 5 bars on our cellphones anywhere in the house, it is great now. no missed/dropped calls or messages.

there is a neat little Cell Tower Mapper app that you can use, to see what tower is near you, and exactly what services and frequency bands on on that tower. change the Service Provider and select the one that you use.

https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=310& ... lours=true

that link directs you to Oologah, Oklahoma on AT&T
.
Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon
User avatar
powerwagon75
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:05 pm
Location: USA

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by powerwagon75 »

Portreve wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:15 am
....1. Will there be 4G/5G flip phones for all those out there who refuse to use a smart phone?....
Portreve,

My work phone is a Kyocera flip phone. With what I do, there's no way I could carry one of those flat glass phones without breaking it in short order. When I had it replaced last, I got the latest version of the model available to me, and, it is a "smart phone", and has 4G capability. (perhaps is available without the "smart" features too?) I would think Kyocera is not the only brand with that option, but haven't looked in to it.
Image
Custom tower w/Mint 18
HP laptop w/Mint 18
Acer w/W10/Mint 18.3
Macbook w/El Capitan/Mint 18.3
Optiplex 960 "Frankenbox" w/Fedora 30/Mint 18.3/Mint 19.2
Acer C720 Chromebook w/GalliumOS
Mac PPC G4 w/Lubuntu
User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 14
Level 14
Posts: 5300
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by AZgl1500 »

powerwagon75 wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:21 pm
Portreve wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:15 am
....1. Will there be 4G/5G flip phones for all those out there who refuse to use a smart phone?....
Portreve,

My work phone is a Kyocera flip phone. With what I do, there's no way I could carry one of those flat glass phones without breaking it in short order. When I had it replaced last, I got the latest version of the model available to me, and, it is a "smart phone", and has 4G capability. (perhaps is available without the "smart" features too?) I would think Kyocera is not the only brand with that option, but haven't looked in to it.
Motorola has some nice flip phones that are 4g and 'smart'
Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon
User avatar
Portreve
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 3385
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by Portreve »

I haven't bothered to look at or research flip phones in 12 years or more. However, I did venture over to Kyocera's web site and they do have some impressive-looking heavy duty rated gear.

I think if I were some kind of outdoor contractor (AC, electrician, plumber, etc.) the phone I'd carry with me would be something along those lines. I know I'd be tearing up any other phone.
Your humble Portreve.

Running Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.0

Problem solved? Mark your thread [SOLVED] | There’s no place like ::1
I used to be a natural people person, then people ruined it.

Recommended Keyboard Layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
User avatar
GS3
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1841
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:51 am

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by GS3 »

Maybe I have some misconceptions but here is what I understand:

Forget 5G. I does not affect you and will not affect you in the foreseeable future.

The transition from 3G to 4G has already been completed in the EU in two phases. This is to assign the TV spectrum above 700 MHz to mobile services.

As far as I know, this 4G transition only affects data services but not the basic voice service and any old flip voice phone is still working fine for voice. It does not care about 3G or 4G. I believe 3G phones will still work for voice but not for data.

Voice frequencies and technologies in Europe and America are different but I believe the distinction between voice and data would be similar.

So I believe if an old flip phone stops working in America it is not directly because of the transition to 4G data although some carrier may choose to stop supporting a specific voice technology at the same time they transition to 4G data.

It's complicated and would need more study and investigation than I am willing to do now. But I am pretty sure I see some people in Europe using very old voice phones. Phones from well before 3G or 4G even existed.
Portreve wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:15 am
2. Non-VoLTE is a fallback for when you're not in a location with good enough reception for 4G service.

Maybe I am mistaken but I thought VoLTE (Voice over LTE) was not the default but rather something the user could enable if and where supported by the network. In any case, as I said, I believe you can always use basic voice calls no matter what. It is data that is affected.

Probably some people are saying the notices are vague and alarming because they are simple and to the point: If your phone only does 3G then you need a phone with 4G. If you want details, especially deep technical details, you can find them but don't expect the phone co. to send out a detailed technical analysis that no one will read or understand.
Please do not use animated GIFs in avatars because many of us find them distracting and obnoxious. Thank you.
User avatar
Portreve
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 3385
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by Portreve »

Hey GS3:

The article I read stated specifically that AT&T intends to migrate all voice service to VoLTE.
Your humble Portreve.

Running Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.0

Problem solved? Mark your thread [SOLVED] | There’s no place like ::1
I used to be a natural people person, then people ruined it.

Recommended Keyboard Layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
User avatar
GS3
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1841
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:51 am

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by GS3 »

Portreve wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:41 am
The article I read stated specifically that AT&T intends to migrate all voice service to VoLTE.
Sounds like a bad idea to me and I would be asking some questions like

- So non-capable VoLTE sets cannot be used any longer?

- Even with a 4G-VoLTE-capable phone what happens when you are in an area not directly serviced by ATT? Are all other carriers guaranteeing VoLTE service everywhere?

If you want to keep using an old voice phone and ATT no longer supports that voice service maybe it is time to look around and see if you find other carriers who will.

I cannot imagine keeping compatibility with the old voice system would cost too much but the big companies are looking out for their profits and not for our convenience.

If finally all carriers switch to voice over data and end plain voice service then I guess you'ŕe ducked.

I know how you feel because I hate it each time I need to change to new things when I was satisfied with the way things were.
Please do not use animated GIFs in avatars because many of us find them distracting and obnoxious. Thank you.
User avatar
Portreve
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 3385
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by Portreve »

GS3 wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:20 am
Portreve wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:41 am
The article I read stated specifically that AT&T intends to migrate all voice service to VoLTE.
Sounds like a bad idea to me and I would be asking some questions like

- So non-capable VoLTE sets cannot be used any longer?

- Even with a 4G-VoLTE-capable phone what happens when you are in an area not directly serviced by ATT? Are all other carriers guaranteeing VoLTE service everywhere?

If you want to keep using an old voice phone and ATT no longer supports that voice service maybe it is time to look around and see if you find other carriers who will.

I cannot imagine keeping compatibility with the old voice system would cost too much but the big companies are looking out for their profits and not for our convenience.

If finally all carriers switch to voice over data and end plain voice service then I guess you'ŕe ducked.

I know how you feel because I hate it each time I need to change to new things when I was satisfied with the way things were.
Ok, so, over the course of the past hour, I've been both digging/researching, as well as writing/editing/revising/re-writing this post because, frankly, I was completely wrong about certain things. So, here's what I've learned...

The "first" standard for regular cell phone transmissions, what we would now call "1G", used different frequencies for different things, and voice was an analog affair.

The second and successor standards, what we might loosely refer to as "2G", were digital, and so voice was digitized and technically sent as data. There were a few iterations of 2G, but those distinctions don't matter for purposes of this discussion.

One thing which does matter, however, is that voice and data traffic were on separate bands.

3G came out, and eventually there were a number of other standards developed to work with it, most especially HSPA, HSPA+, etc. Under this standard, multiple bands would be used on a basically omnibus basis, and both voice and data were treated as the same thing and pushed out collectively across the bands.

With all of those standards, and also with 4G, 5G, and probably every other G that will come along, there are multiple frequencies and channels used. Different frequencies have different ranges and penetration capabilities, which is why, for example, you might have a good terrestrial broadcast of TV in your home yet at the same time your cell phone might have reception problems. VHF and UHF are very different wavelengths than what are used for cell phones.

4G bands are faster, but sacrifice range. That (I presume) is true for 5G as well.

So, my concern would be better (and correctly) expressed as:

4G and 5G have some pretty demanding requirements in order to have appropriate coverage, and as the signal strength decreases, the data rate drops to accommodate it. As the data rate drops, it becomes harder and harder to support HD Audio. There is a fall-back to lower quality, more highly compressed audio streams, but along with that, phones at the moment can also fall back to connections and frequencies more associated with 3G, which helps buttress at least basic functionality. If 3G ceases to be a fallback option, then areas not well served by 4G are going to become more problematic to support absent further investment by cell carriers.
Your humble Portreve.

Running Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.0

Problem solved? Mark your thread [SOLVED] | There’s no place like ::1
I used to be a natural people person, then people ruined it.

Recommended Keyboard Layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
RollyShed
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:58 pm
Location: South Island, New Zealand

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by RollyShed »

Portreve wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:27 pm
VHF and UHF are very different wavelengths than what are used for cell phones.
3G is in the UHF frequency range, 300 MHZ to 3000 MHz. 3000 MHz = 3 GHz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_frequency
User avatar
GS3
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1841
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:51 am

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by GS3 »

As far as I know, In Europe, Africa and Asia, 3G is being discontinued but 2G (GSM) is not going away any time soon. There is just too much installed base, not only phones but alarms, railways, power distribution, and many other things. Only 3G is being discontinued and replaced by 4G. The 2G 900 Mhz band remains. That is my understanding. Twenty year old GSM phones still work in Europe and Asia.

In America GSM was competing with HSDPA and a bunch of other standards so there never was such a real standard which means there is not so much incentive to keep older systems working.

It may be that, indeed, in America carriers scrap the older systems and older phones will stop working.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM_frequency_bands
Please do not use animated GIFs in avatars because many of us find them distracting and obnoxious. Thank you.
User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 14
Level 14
Posts: 5300
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by AZgl1500 »

Portreve wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:41 am
Hey GS3:

The article I read stated specifically that AT&T intends to migrate all voice service to VoLTE.
this is correct, and as I mentioned before, Verizon USA has already done just that.....
VZW is now VoLTE period.

1g is still working, as that is what SMS messaging is using, at a much lower frequency, so that far greater distances can be covered into deep, low down elevations....

I can drive into the low hinterlands and totally loose VoLTE on my Verizon phone.
No bars at all, just the 1g symbol is showing.
Send a text to myself, and it comes right back at me.

I have a friend who is an OTR truck driver using AT&T, and he frequently gets into areas where he has no signal at all.
he then sends me a SMS saying "see ya, no signal" and I get it.
Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon
User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 14
Level 14
Posts: 5300
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by AZgl1500 »

GS3 wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:06 pm
As far as I know, In Europe, Africa and Asia, 3G is being discontinued but 2G (GSM) is not going away any time soon. There is just too much installed base, not only phones but alarms, railways, power distribution, and many other things. Only 3G is being discontinued and replaced by 4G. The 2G 900 Mhz band remains. That is my understanding. Twenty year old GSM phones still work in Europe and Asia.

In America GSM was competing with HSDPA and a bunch of other standards so there never was such a real standard which means there is not so much incentive to keep older systems working.

It may be that, indeed, in America carriers scrap the older systems and older phones will stop working.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM_frequency_bands
I am, right now, looking at the AT&T cell map for my tower, it has 700mHz on it, so that takes care of SMS and other things like Emergency Services.

I note that it has 3+ radios on that frequency band,

they are also using it as Band-12 for LTE-A for single channel LTE modems.

https://www.cellmapper.net/map?MCC=310& ... lours=true
Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon
User avatar
bob466
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1156
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 5:23 am
Location: Australia

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by bob466 »

Here in Australia 99% of all phones sold are 4G...at the moment we have 3G and 4G...both Optus and Telstra are rolling out 5G over the next few years...wont hold my breath for that :lol: and 5G phones are very expensive too. Image

The 3G network will be turned off in a few years...once it's turned off anyone with a 3G only phone will have an expensive paper weight. Image I would imagine this would be the same case in the USA...start saving guys. :D

I had a nice 2G Samsung smart phone but when the 2G network was tuned off in 2016 it was dead as a Dodo :( I did use it as a MP3 player for a while...lucky me Image but still had to buy a new phone. Image
Linux For Ever...Windoze Never. Image
The Freedom To Choose Your Own Avatar Without Victimisation.
User avatar
GS3
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1841
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:51 am

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by GS3 »

bob466 wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:14 am
... once it's turned off anyone with a 3G only phone will have an expensive paper weight.
Yup. I have my old iPhone which I can't bear to just throw in the garbage. You would think they might find a way to donate 3G equipment to developing countries but no. Countries skip technologies and go direct to the latest. China went from being a country with an insignificant number of land lines per capita to being the largest mobile market (and manufacturer) in the world. Most people who have a latest generation mobile phone never had a landline.
Please do not use animated GIFs in avatars because many of us find them distracting and obnoxious. Thank you.
User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 14
Level 14
Posts: 5300
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by AZgl1500 »

just for grins,
I still have my Samsung Verizon Fascinate with 1g and 2g IIRC.
it quit working for voice calls about a decade back...

I get it out once in a while just to tinker with it...
on WiFi, it still works, but that is all it can do.

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/samsung-fascinate-review/

Samsung was years ahead of the other guys:

The Good The Samsung Fascinate offers a gorgeous Super AMOLED touch screen,
Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon
User avatar
lsemmens
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3547
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:07 pm
Location: Rural South Australia

Re: AT&T to switch off 3G and standard Telco in 2022...

Post by lsemmens »

Not going to affect me at all. ;) AT&T can turn their entire network off, and it still won't affect me! :lol:
Fully mint Household
Out of my mind - please leave a message
Post Reply

Return to “Open chat”