The Coronavirus!

[exploder]

Two vaccines are in stage three of testing and others are nearly at that point. Treatment has improved over the months as we have grown to understand the virus more. I share the opinion that sooner or later we will all get the virus just like we all get the flu. I believe we can overcome the virus in the not so distant future and things can return to normal.

I am not a fan of wearing a mask but if I am in a busy place like the grocery store I wear one. It's a minor inconvenience but it is necessary right now. We have to protect the people at highest risk. We can overcome this!

[GS3]

It ain't over 'til it's over and many countries still have the worst ahead of them but for now there is a trend developing and that is that countries with cultures where people are civic minded and willing to follow rules are doing much better than countries that are fragmented and where (some) people feel they should have the privilege of not having to cooperate for the common good.

Australia and New Zealand are two interesting cases because they are majorly of western culture and yet are doing very well, in line with their Asian neighbors. The economies of both countries are very tightly tied to China and other Asian countries.

My guess is that there are two main causes for the successful handling of the virus pandemic:

The cultures are still quite cohesive and have not been confrontationally divided as has happened in other countries. I think people there are mostly willing to cooperate with their governments and with each other rather than having to prove that "you are not the boss of me to tell me what to do".

Also, they have great influence from China and other Asian countries who, after SARS, prepared well for the next virus. While Asian countries were prepared and took measures immediately, as did N.Z. and Australia, western countries were totally unprepared and sat on their hands while things were getting out of hand.

I would be interested in hearing from posters from these two countries.

IMHO, we are at a point that is not even the beginning of the end. That will come with a vaccine. For now I would expect that the pandemic will continue to burn like wildfire through many countries where it hasn't even started. And, as long as it is spreading somewhere in the world it is a danger to the entire world.

Again, it's not over yet, but looking at the numbers of dead I think it cannot be denied that some countries are doing much better than others. To me it seems terribly arrogant to not want to learn and just continue with our squabbling and bickering and feelings of superiority.

Code: Select all

Country	   Deaths / 1M pop

Belgium     850
UK          680
Spain       609
Peru        600
Italy       582
Sweden      569
Chile       507
USA         481
France      464
Brazil      445
	
Australia     9
Japan         8
Vietnam       7
S. Korea      6
Hong Kong     6
Singapore     5
New Zealand   4
China         3
Taiwan        0.3 

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


[/quote]

[Kadaitcha Man]

I believe we can overcome the virus in the not so distant future and things can return to normal.

That won't happen until we see 4,000,000 dead from it.

[Dark Owl]

The world is over-populated with no government able to take the necessary steps for control (because of the conflict with economic growth, which is essential to maintaining civic services). The real cause of global warming is over-population (but nobody dares to say that). If this plague doesn't help rebalance things, another catastrophe will.

[Portreve]

The only thing I have to say about COVID-19 is that my country is #1 at it. Having it, ignoring it, dying from it, tying itself up in knots over supposed civil liberties issues over it...

Yeah, “We're Number One!”

</sarcasm>

[Kadaitcha Man]

... tying itself up in knots over supposed civil liberties issues over it...

Since this all started, I haven't been able to fathom that people could be so stupid as to put their and others' lives at risk while screaming blue murder about civil liberties. It's an oxymoron.

[rene]

Code: Select all

Country	   Deaths / 1M pop

Belgium     850
[ ... ]

Some warning there, since Belgium (while not "cohesive" over the Walloon/Flanders divide, nor particularly well-lead) is typically not a noncohesive/recalcitrant society as such and would thereby not fit the general pattern you concentrated on. Same thing goes for Sweden. Quoting Wikipedia for Belgium,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_ ... in_Belgium

However, Belgium may have been over-reporting the actual number of cases.[11] Unlike many other countries, which publish figures based primarily on confirmed hospital deaths, the death figures reported by the Belgian authorities include deaths in the community, especially in care homes, confirmed to have been caused by the coronavirus, as well as a much larger number of such deaths suspected to have been caused by the virus, even if the person was not tested

Reporting methodology differences is very important in how to (not) interpret the numbers.

As to Australia and New Zealand I must say I'd also find it rather surprising if, given equal reporting methodology, there would not be a quite statistically significant correlation simply between those numbers and population density.

[BG405]

corona.jpg

                    ..

I was thinking when this all started that it might have an effect on sales of this nice beverage. Will have to see if any of the local bars have it in their fridges ..

[ZakGordon]

We are back up and running?! Ok:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhas ... an-adults/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... port-warns

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... tudy-finds

I won't comment other than to say this is all important info for all to consider.

[murray]

Australia and New Zealand are two interesting cases because they are majorly of western culture and yet are doing very well, in line with their Asian neighbors. The economies of both countries are very tightly tied to China and other Asian countries.

My guess is that there are two main causes for the successful handling of the virus pandemic:

The cultures are still quite cohesive and have not been confrontationally divided as has happened in other countries. I think people there are mostly willing to cooperate with their governments and with each other rather than having to prove that "you are not the boss of me to tell me what to do".

Also, they have great influence from China and other Asian countries who, after SARS, prepared well for the next virus. While Asian countries were prepared and took measures immediately, as did N.Z. and Australia, western countries were totally unprepared and sat on their hands while things were getting out of hand.

I would be interested in hearing from posters from these two countries.

I'm a New Zealander and right now life in NZ has pretty much returned to normal. Our government set up a 4 level system with Level 4 being total lockdown and Level 1 being life as normal but border restrictions.

We had about a month of Level 4 lockdown when only people working in essential jobs were allowed to go to work, all others had to work from home if possible or otherwise just stay home. No international travellers allowed in, no travel between regions allowed, all retail, restaurants, food delivery, etc were closed except for supermarkets. Just before lockdown there was a little bit of panic shopping, eg flour was sold out everywhere, but this soon stopped when people saw that supermarkets were being restocked quickly and shortages never became a problem. No gatherings were allowed, exercise was allowed but people were advised to stay near home and not travel between regions. Only essential workers were allowed on public transport. Masks were never made mandatory due to the question of whether they were really effective or not. The government quickly offered grants to companies in order to keep people employed (the companies could only access the grants if they promised to keep people employed and the money had to go towards wages and not be spent on other things). This saved many jobs.

We quickly progressed down through Level 3 and Level 2 (food delivery's and take-out allowed, larger gatherings allowed eg for funerals, etc) and now we're sitting at Level 1. Gatherings of any size are allowed, all shops are open, public transport is running, all travel is allowed between regions, people have returned to work. At the moment only Kiwis are allowed to return to NZ, and even then they have to be quarantined for 14 days and return negative tests before they're allowed out into the community. The govt is paying for this, eg put up in a hotel and all food, etc provided for 14 days, but there are plans in place to start charging for this service for anyone that is returning to NZ for less than 90 days.

At the moment I'm working from home 2 days a week and going into the office 3 days a week. This is because my company is looking into allowing its employees to work more from home as many preferred it but they're not ready to commit to it just yet. There are calls from our medical people that we are getting a bit too complacent and should be prepared for a second wave. As of today New Zealand's figures are:

Total number of confirmed cases: 1,219. Change in last 24 hours: 2
Total number of probable cases: 350. Change in last 24 hours: 0
Total number of confirmed and probable cases: 1,569. Change in last 24 hours: 2
Total number of recovered cases: 1,523. Change in last 24 hours: 0
Total number of deaths: 22. Change in last 24 hours: 0
Total number of active cases: 24. Change in last 24 hours: 2
Total number of cases currently in hospital: 0. Change in last 24 hours: 0

The NZ population is just over 5 million.

Many economists are saying that the NZ economy hasn't been as badly affected as they first thought and that things are actually looking good all things considered. There are still some doom-and-gloom merchants that say we won't see the affects till later in the year but I personally don't know of any of my family friends that have lost their jobs or been left worse off after our hard lockdown. We have an election coming up in a couple of months and the current goverment is riding high as most people think they handled the situation well and did the right thing to prioritise people's health and lives over the economy.

[Plons]

A month ago I started a thread on the Coronavirus, simply stating (in a very polite manner) that I have my doubts on the measures taken by the Dutch government. My thread was removed within hours.
I can not re-post my doubts, since I will be banned presumably, for doing so.
So what can I do ?
Discuss ? Currently, there is no room for discussion, for a different opinion than what we are told by main stream media. Or what is commonly accepted. That is a pitty.

I really hope that the day will come that open discussion is possible.

Nard

[rene]

Discuss ? Currently, there is no room for discussion, for a different opinion than what we are told by main stream media. Or what is commonly accepted. That is a pitty.I really hope that the day will come that open discussion is possible.

Your use of the term "main stream media" certainly does not bode well for your level of knowledge so if said "open discussion" was the type of uninformed ramblings that I expect, they were probably moderated out as too political; a definite no-go for this computer forum.

[BG405]

I'm now enjoying this nice pint!

                                                                                                                             

[Plons]

rene wrote:

Your use of the term "main stream media" certainly does not bode well for your level of knowledge

How can you tell ? Don't you have any doubts on what you are told by MSM ?

This will lead nowhere.
I posted my comment as another moderator told me a month ago that threads with Covid-19 as subject will not be allowed. Yet I see this one, and am not just surprised, merely amazed that it is still up.

Since I am not allowed to discuss my view, I will leave it as is.

Nard

[rene]

How can you tell ? Don't you have any doubts on what you are told by MSM ?

Not a lot, no, and specifically because of most of what we are told by regular channels consists of verifiable science rather than of chest-pounding blabber by internet-fools. As in, now that you have used that abbreviation I have even less doubt about the nature of your moderated out "view".

Thanks for leaving things as is, as you say. It is much appreciated.

[lsemmens]

You're a brave man Pjtor fancy ("cough")ing in this thread! You might get arrested.

I do tend to agree with some of the points of both GS3 and Pjtor,

Integration, cohesion, if we all worked for the greater good would be great! However, there are many who think the greater good is fine if they are at the top of the heap. I'm certain we'd all get over this 'flu a lot faster if ALL practised the correct mask/social distancing/sanitisation routines recommended by the medical authorities. Problem is, there are those who think, "I'm ok! I don't need to do this thing" They, may well be ok until they are not!!!! Meantime, what about the rest of us? I'm fortunate I live in a state that is almost completely free of COVID and I live in a small community away from the big smoke, so on two counts I am relatively safe, but that does not mean I am complacent. Maybe in my own community, I might be, but, it only takes one person to stuff it up for the rest of us.

[MrEen]

I am sensing a turn for the worse here.

This thread has been reported by other users, so time to lock it up.

As I'm the new kid on the block, I am only locking the thread, not removing it at this time. Another moderator might change this either way, unlocking or removing completely.

I think everyone knows that this topic is always going to be balancing on a thread (pun intended) to remain on the forum.