Grammar Pet Peeve

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Schultz
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by Schultz »

GS3 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:49 am
So, more important than anything else, correct writing is a show of respect and consideration for others, just like dressing appropriately and other social conventions.
Unfortunately, this is a foreign concept today for the vast majority of people (in regards to both writing and dressing).
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by farkas »

I'm chiming in as a non native speaker of the English language. Had to learn English as an immigrant to the USA. Now I think I'm fairly proficient in its use, after 60 years. I still wonder if I should have put a ',' after the 'Now' in the previous sentence.
One of the first hurdles was spelling. For example the letter 'i' has different sounds, even in the same word such as "writing". How do you pronounce it when you see it for the first time as a written word? The same goes for the reverse. Trying to spell a word correctly from what it sounds like. Then sometimes more than one way to spell it correctly, depending on which side of pond you live on. Eventually by rote learning and having a dictionary handy got the hang of it. There were no spell checkers for pen and paper and manual typewriters. There correct grammar and punctuation took a while longer. When I got back a lot my essays and term papers in English class they looked like someone bled all over them,
Then there are heteronyms, homographs, homophones, and homonyms. All of them add to the confusion of all who are trying to learn English and even native speakers.
Also adding to the confusion are acronyms. They seem to be proliferating more and more recently, even in this forum. Like LMAO, RTFM and etc. When reading a technical article a lot of time I have to stop and look them up to see what the author is talking about.
All languages evolve over time. If they didn't, we would be still be communicating with grunts, groans and chest beating. I have no objection to adopting a word from another language. Especially if it clarifies an old concept or new idea.
I think written language is devolving with the use emoticons and emojis. Seems like we are headed back to hieroglyphics, which worked well for the Egyptians and other early cultures. I don't use a smart phone but I've seen examples of text messages consisting entirely of emojis. It may be that I'm an old fart and resistant to learning a something new. Eventually I may have break down and learn it in order to be able to communicate with the upcoming generations.

PS.
I you happen to be an English teacher please go ahead and get your red pencil out and get ready to bleed a lot over my post. I would like to know if my grammar has improved over the years. :lol:
Yes, I occasionally use a simile where it seems appropriate.
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by absque fenestris »

farkas wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:33 pm
I'm chiming in as a non native speaker of the English language. Had to learn English as an immigrant to the USA. Now I think I'm fairly proficient in its use, after 60 years.
...
If in your native language the name of your avatar corresponds to the wolf, you may find the local comment on my use of the same funny: ...Érdekes ... és az ország melyik részéről származik?
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by farkas »

You got it right. Farkas is indeed, in my native language, equivalent to wolf.
Én Budapesten születtem. Már sok Magyar szót elfeleltettem, kezded öregedni.
Az én gépem is ablak mentes. :)
Last edited by farkas on Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by Portreve »

Schultz wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:43 pm
If I think of more, "I'll be back." :wink:
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by Pjotr »

farkas wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:33 pm
Had to learn English as an immigrant to the USA.
In 1956? That was a horrible year for Hungary....
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by absque fenestris »

farkas wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:50 am
You got it right. Farkas is indeed, in my native language, equivalent to wolf.
Én Budapesten születtem. Már sok Magyar szót elfeleltettem, kezded öregedni.
Az én gépem is ablak mentes. :)
Én Zürichben születtem - alig egy évvel a vasfüggöny rövid, ideiglenes megnyitása után. Tehát a magyar kifejezésemnek nagyon sajátos svájci akcentusa van.
Nagyon köszönöm a becenevem fordítását. Az "ablak mentes" egy osztály elegánsabb, mint amilyen az én korlátozott "ablak nelkül" lenne.
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by lsemmens »

Portreve wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:48 am
What if all the folks who write software decide to just make up their own rules and typed up their code any way they felt like it?
Isn't that what Billy and his mates did? (I'm looking at you Mr Gates. :D)
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by AZgl1500 »

as a kid who was drug thru the dirt of ( thru through? see? )
  • Missouri, USA
  • Oklahoma, USA
  • Texas, USA,
  • New Mexico, USA
  • Arizona, USA
and avoided the "language classes" in school like the plague,
I have a dialect that is best referred to as TexMexOkie speak.
a conflagration of different areas, and some Spanglish thrown in with it.

The various social media abuses of our languages is orful ( awful ) and I really don't like it.
comes from cellphones and one finger Hunt & Peck so ya see?

I much prefer to spell it out, so that I am not misunderstood.

I think I fell in love with my 8th grade English teacher, she was the one who put me on the path of proper usage of the English language, and it stayed with me forever.
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GS3
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by GS3 »

AZgl1500 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:21 am
as a kid who was drug thru the dirt of
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/dragged-drug/

The recognized and correct past tense form of the verb drag is dragged. Drug can still sometimes be heard, but only in certain dialects within the United States. Sometimes, a group of people have a way of speaking that's particular to them.
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by AZgl1500 »

GS3 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:45 am
AZgl1500 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:21 am
as a kid who was drug thru the dirt of
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/dragged-drug/

The recognized and correct past tense form of the verb drag is dragged. Drug can still sometimes be heard, but only in certain dialects within the United States. Sometimes, a group of people have a way of speaking that's particular to them.
well, obviously, my dialect came more from the horse crowds, and we got 'drug' through the dirt a lot...
Cowboys have a language of their own, and I owned a couple of horses, but never owned a 'ranch', but acreages, still have Six Acres of grass and trees, I just cannot stand to be crowded up with only 39 inches between my house and the neighbor.

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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by jjp2145-oldtimer »

farkas wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:33 pm
I'm chiming in as a non native speaker of the English language. Had to learn English as an immigrant to the USA. Now I think I'm fairly proficient in its use, after 60 years. I still wonder if I should have put a ',' after the 'Now' in the previous sentence.
One of the first hurdles was spelling. For example the letter 'i' has different sounds, even in the same word such as "writing". How do you pronounce it when you see it for the first time as a written word? The same goes for the reverse. Trying to spell a word correctly from what it sounds like. Then sometimes more than one way to spell it correctly, depending on which side of pond you live on. Eventually by rote learning and having a dictionary handy got the hang of it. There were no spell checkers for pen and paper and manual typewriters. There correct grammar and punctuation took a while longer. When I got back a lot my essays and term papers in English class they looked like someone bled all over them,
Then there are heteronyms, homographs, homophones, and homonyms. All of them add to the confusion of all who are trying to learn English and even native speakers.
Also adding to the confusion are acronyms. They seem to be proliferating more and more recently, even in this forum. Like LMAO, RTFM and etc. When reading a technical article a lot of time I have to stop and look them up to see what the author is talking about.
All languages evolve over time. If they didn't, we would be still be communicating with grunts, groans and chest beating. I have no objection to adopting a word from another language. Especially if it clarifies an old concept or new idea.
I think written language is devolving with the use emoticons and emojis. Seems like we are headed back to hieroglyphics, which worked well for the Egyptians and other early cultures. I don't use a smart phone but I've seen examples of text messages consisting entirely of emojis. It may be that I'm an old fart and resistant to learning a something new. Eventually I may have break down and learn it in order to be able to communicate with the upcoming generations.

PS.
I you happen to be an English teacher please go ahead and get your red pencil out and get ready to bleed a lot over my post. I would like to know if my grammar has improved over the years. :lol:
Yes, I occasionally use a simile where it seems appropriate.
Your grammar is fine, but not perfect. An introductory phrase does not require a comma when it is short and the subject-verb construction follows it closely. Of course, the comma is not incorrect. You correctly used "Now I think..." and "Yes, I occasionally use...".

However, "[w]hen reading a technical articale a lot of time..." is too long not to take a comma. When you turn the sentence around the comma is suddenly incorrect as in, "[t]hey seem to be profliferating more and more recently, even in this forum."

Your grammar is fine, but English is clearly not your first language. I would be pulling my hair out if you were a native speaker and you got straight A's in your high school English classes. By the way I am not an English teacher; I just wanted the editing practice.
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by Jeff13 »

Not a peeve here but a mystery. Enjoin. How did it end up being it's own opposite?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/enjoin
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by GS3 »

Jeff13 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:11 pm
Not a peeve here but a mystery. Enjoin. How did it end up being it's own opposite?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/enjoin
I don't see it. To me it means to impose or to prescribe with force. It never meant the opposite of that.
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

GS3 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:52 pm
Jeff13 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:11 pm
Not a peeve here but a mystery. Enjoin. How did it end up being it's own opposite?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/enjoin
I don't see it. To me it means to impose or to prescribe with force. It never meant the opposite of that.
Go back and read the second definition.

A similar word that seems to contradict itself is enervate. It actually means to sap energy, not energize.
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by GS3 »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:09 pm
Go back and read the second definition.
Sorry but I am not seeing it. I am not seeing that an authority directing me to do or to not do something are contradictory meanings any more than a friend or my doctor recommending me I do or not do something are contradictory meanings which would need different words. Or "impose". Same word whether it is imposing a positive or a negative. To me "enjoin" is like "impose", "recommend" etc. The fact that I can recommend contradictory things does not mean "recommend" has two contradictory meanings. I can walk to the corner and walk back from the corner. It is all walking. I guess we could use one word for walking north and a different one for walking south. But we don't.
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by jjp2145-oldtimer »

Cleave is also its own opposite. It means to join together and to cut in half.
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

GS3 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:22 pm
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:09 pm
Go back and read the second definition.
Sorry but I am not seeing it. I am not seeing that an authority directing me to do or to not do something are contradictory meanings any more than a friend or my doctor recommending me I do or not do something are contradictory meanings which would need different words. Or "impose". Same word whether it is imposing a positive or a negative. To me "enjoin" is like "impose", "recommend" etc. The fact that I can recommend contradictory things does not mean "recommend" has two contradictory meanings. I can walk to the corner and walk back from the corner. It is all walking. I guess we could use one word for walking north and a different one for walking south. But we don't.
Try again. The first one is telling you to do something; the second one is forbidding it.
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Re: Grammar Pet Peeve

Post by Jeff13 »

I can see @GS3's point. He is saying the word means command and it is to or from (or the implied to or from) that actually changes the meaning. I'm not good enough at grammar to enjoin this conversation in either direction.
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