Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

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Pierre
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Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Pierre »

in another World First, the Australian Federal Government.
has now legislated that both Google and Facebook - - should now have to Pay for their News Articles.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/google-facebo ... 11196.html
that is about payment to either National Broadcaster.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/ ... n%20Friday.
that is about the proposed payments to Australian Commercial News Oulets.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/ ... -companies
that is about the campaign that Google is waging against the proposed legislation,
and just how much it's message, is bombarding it's Australian User Base.

What is the code?

The proposed code would require Google and Facebook to negotiate in good faith to pay Australian Commercial news media companies (except public broadcasters) for the use of their content.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Vladimir00 »

The legislation on intellectual property today reaches insanity :D
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by antikythera »

Given to read certain news sites end users already have to pay, so should Google, Facebook etc. for siphoning news from them with their bots.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Pjotr »

Well, all it will achieve is that Google News will disappear. And that the numbers of readers of newspaper articles, will plummet. This will hasten the downfall of the traditional newspapers. Whether that's so bad, is debatable. But it will happen.

Bit dumb, this... Newspapers benefit most from maximal exposure on Google News, coupled with a smart mix of public articles, ads and (payers-only) premium articles.

Who still subscribes to dead-tree news? I dumped my dead-tree subscription 20 years ago (in order to cover the costs of what was then considered as high-speed internet), and never looked back. :mrgreen:
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by antikythera »

What concerns me more these days is finding genuine news amongst all the crud traceable back to the parallel reality of social media rather than professional journalists who take their time to check facts and gather evidence before knee jerk copy and pasting off social media. So if we have to pay to see it then so be it. Journalists need to earn a crust, Murdoch Corp. can do one though :lol:
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Pjotr »

antikythera wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:04 am
What concerns me more these days is finding genuine news amongst all the crud traceable back to the parallel reality of social media rather than professional journalists who take their time to check facts and gather evidence before knee jerk copy and pasting off social media. So if we have to pay to see it then so be it. Journalists need to earn a crust, Murdoch Corp. can do one though :lol:
Largely agreed, but this legislation will be counterproductive. This will only accelerate the disappearance of the traditional newspapers.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Vladimir00 »

I think journalists should be happy that their articles are read at all :D Today, few people like to read newspapers and magazines. (I mean relatively serious reading. Although there are few really serious articles )
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Portreve »

Australia is already at the ass end of everywhere. All Google, Facebook, et al, need do is simply use publicly available news for Australia, and then dump any other news source. In the modern world, that will be the death of those news outlets.

If Australia really was interested in doing the right thing where journalism is concerned, they would taxpayer subsidize those organizations and call it good.

Journalism is critical for free people to have the knowledge necessary to protect that freedom and everything else of value.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Vladimir00 »

Portreve wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:28 pm
Journalism is critical for free people to have the knowledge necessary to protect that freedom and everything else of value.
Think really high quality journalism is rare these days. Public funding can partially solve this problem. But it can also create new problems.(Too much dependence of journalists from different newspapers and magazines on one major sponsor is hardly a good thing)
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Portreve »

Vladimir00 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:54 pm
Portreve wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:28 pm
Journalism is critical for free people to have the knowledge necessary to protect that freedom and everything else of value.
Think really high quality journalism is rare these days. Public funding can partially solve this problem. But it can also create new problems.(Too much dependence of journalists from different newspapers and magazines on one major sponsor is hardly a good thing)
So, a couple additional thoughts on this.

First, the money collected through taxes needs to be handled so that the government cannot interfere with the flow of it. That said, it seems pretty obvious there should be some kind of qualifications to ensure organizations able to access this revenue stream are legitimate news organizations and not fly-by-night operations or propaganda/infotainment organizations. This raises a lot of questions which include: How does one qualify as a news organization?; How does one define propaganda?; Should there be any specific minimum requirements for content?; Who is the actual custodian of the funds?; What is the mechanism to keep fund distribution publicly transparent?; and How does one guard against favoritism and/or attempts at political intrusion?

Understand: I don't have and I don't pretend to have answers to any of those questions. I don't know what life's like in Australia so I don't know how hard it would be to have such a system there and have it run in an ideal manner. However, I do live in America and I strongly question whether at this point it would be even remotely possible to have such a system. I'd love to think it would somehow be possible, but everything I've seen over the last 20 years, leading up to this point, informs me it would not.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by antikythera »

I'd prefer true Journalists to continue to be paid properly rather than per click. It's the click economy that causes the push of articles without checking facts first and usually months after an event or press release actually happened.

This is more prevalent in IT news coverage than anywhere else unfortunately. The recent post on here about Windows 10 2004 drive optimiser being a good example. The poster read it as fresh news that day because the contributor to the site they found it on had only just caught up with events 3 months prior. The blogger/writer (I won't call them a Journalist) then copied and pasted another reporter's work verbatim and claimed to have written it themselves.

Traditional newspapers are already dead in the water, they are going online too behind paywalls. The ones that remain free are peppered with adverts and not pleasant to read. They are created by mostly former Tabloid publishers. The local newspapers in the UK are now predominantly published by Trinity Mirror and even they are struggling.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Portreve »

antikythera wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:27 pm
I'd prefer true Journalists to continue to be paid properly rather than per click. It's the click economy that causes the push of articles without checking facts first and usually months after an event or press release actually happened.

This is more prevalent in IT news coverage than anywhere else unfortunately. The recent post on here about Windows 10 2004 drive optimiser being a good example. The poster read it as fresh news that day because the contributor to the site they found it on had only just caught up with events 3 months prior. The blogger/writer (I won't call them a Journalist) then copied and pasted another reporter's work verbatim and claimed to have written it themselves.

Traditional newspapers are already dead in the water, they are going online too behind paywalls. The ones that remain free are peppered with adverts and not pleasant to read. They are created by mostly former Tabloid publishers. The local newspapers in the UK are now predominantly published by Trinity Mirror and even they are struggling.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Pierre »

and now, it seems that Facebook has up the anti:
https://www.9news.com.au/national/faceb ... 0b828731f8
and
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-01/ ... t/12616216
by following in Google's steps.

thus, we'll wait & see, for just what the end result, will finally be.

the thing is, that all the Federal Government, seems to be requiring,
- is that the Australian News Companies, be paid for what their journalists, are writing.
if it's really that simple, maybe not . . .

but, there would also seem to be an lot of public opposition, to the preposed law, as well.

personally, I've stopped Reading the Google News, as such,
- as I'd found that the News that Google supplied, was of poor quality,
when compared to some other mainstream news sites .. not an good comparison, for sure,
& where most of the mainstream news sites are not too flash, either.
:roll:
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Portreve »

Pierre wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:07 pm
and now, it seems that Facebook has up the anti:
https://www.9news.com.au/national/faceb ... 0b828731f8
and
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-01/ ... t/12616216
by following in Google's steps.

thus, we'll wait & see, for just what the end result, will finally be.

the thing is, that all the Federal Government, seems to be requiring,
- is that the Australian News Companies, be paid for what their journalists, are writing.
if it's really that simple, maybe not . . .
For once, I happen to agree with Facebook. Sharing is effectively a form of republishing, and if Facebook or Google had to pay for the news to appear, then they're gonna get dinged because of course the users aren't going to want to have to pay when they share a published news article.

Australia's news industry is simply going to get themselves sidelined and made irrelevant.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by GS3 »

Pierre wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:25 am
in another World First, the Australian Federal Government.
has now legislated that both Google and Facebook - - should now have to Pay for their News Articles.
Not quite a world first. The government of Spain did the same some years ago. They passed legislation requiring big, bad Google to pay the local news sites.

The consequence was swift and inevitable: Google News Spain was shut down as not viable. Link. There's probably other countries in the same situation but I just remember that one.

What's worse, many if not most, of the news sites that the legislation was supposed to benefit lost a great part of their traffic which had been coming from Google. :roll:

It was not "the news site may demand payment" but rather "you must pay, whether they want it or not", which is idiotic because news sites were benefiting getting their traffic from Google.

If a news site want to prevent Google from publishing their news, can't they just use existing copyright laws? Why does the government need to step in?

The government was ostensibly protecting the local little guy while fighting the big, bad Google while in reality just looking for votes from people who hate big corps, especially if foreign. The fact that the measure backfired and hurt who they said they were protecting meant nothing.

It is very easy to think "Google has a lot of dough; let us take some" but Google is not stupid and they can just shut down the service if that is in their best benefit.

It is very possible that if Australia does the same thing they will get the same result.

I dislike Google and Facebook as much as the next guy but this trend in many countries of enacting taxes and policies specifically aimed at them seems to me to be unfair and counterproductive.
Last edited by GS3 on Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by antikythera »

Google News shutdown in the UK too. The Newsstand application pre-installed on a lot of smartphones and tablets still runs but only shows US news if you open it, I forcibly disabled it on mine along with Google+ and more recently Play Music which is being replaced by a YouTube Music service and app instead. You get prompted by Play Music to transfer your collection. I did this but also downloaded everything I'd purchased in MP3 format. The YouTube app does not allow downloads, only streaming from their servers which is all well and good if you have a connection...
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Vladimir00 »

It is very easy to think "Google has a lot of dough; let us take some" but Google is not stupid and they can just shut down the service if that is in their best benefit.
[/quote]

Google is not charitable organization :D First of all it is big business.Google is unlikely to want to pay many newspapers and magazines if it does not bring him any benefit.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

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GS3 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:08 am
The government was ostensibly protecting the local little guy while fighting the big, bad Google while in reality just looking for votes from people who hate big corps, especially if foreign. The fact that the measure backfired and hurt who they said they were protecting meant nothing.
This is how things work today: The ultimate consequence of any government action is irrelevant. The fifteen minutes of "positive press" that effects the polling for the actors is all that matters. By the time the chickens come home to roost they will just blame their political opponents and propose a new ill-conceived, but happy sounding, "solution". Wash, rinse, repeat.
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Re: Why Google and Facebook should pay ?

Post by Pierre »

The matter is being watched closely around the world,
- as it represents the biggest challenge so far to the way the U.S. tech giants use news on some of the world's biggest websites.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/explainer-fac ... 24818.html

WHAT DOES THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION SAY?

* The draft law states that Australian news outlets can negotiate individually or collectively with Facebook and Google over payment for content used on the tech firms' sites. Other tech firms may be added if they are deemed big enough.
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