The right decision

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Re: The right decision

Post by kelevra »

Kadaitcha Man wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:13 am
kelevra wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:25 am
I am liking my decision to replace my failing spinning drive with a SSD. I was waffling between a 500GB SSD and a 2TB HDD for the same price. The SSD has breathed some new life into my little old laptop. Load times and the boot time have been reduced significantly. 5yrs warranty is a boon as well. I should be able to repurpose the drive when this laptop becomes unusable. :D
CtrlAltDel will be along shortly to abuse you.
LOL It took me a few ticks to get it. I remember reading that lively thread quite recently.
CtrlAltDel wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:01 am
A SSD, you wake up one day and bam, it just doesn't work any longer. I hope you made the right choice, Kelevra. Sacrificing three times the storage space you could have easily had at the same price for faster boot times and faster initial load times of a few programs seems a little shortsighted, no offense.
No offence taken CtrlAltDel. Speed was not my true concern, just a happy by-product. 2T just seemed like overkill for my needs.
CtrlAltDel wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:48 am
Have you ever had a HDD actually fail, Moem, without dropping a laptop or something?
I have had five HDD failures in my illustrious Computer Engineering career.[SARCASM] Yes, I actually did take Computer Engineering Technology, but that is another story. I have had one HDD burst into flames, one just stopped working, one I dropped the enclosure it was in, one became so slow that it was unusable and the last one had started 'losing' sectors.
Moem wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:25 am
My point is, HDDs are great. SSDs are great too. Each of them has pros and cons, and which one is the best for a certain use depends on several factors. Kelevra is happy with their new SSD, so it seems like they made the best decision here, and I hope they'll enjoy it for many years.
I did do a large amount of research long before my latest HDD failure. I have found a couple more things that are pluses, I don't feel the HDD spinning under my palms any more and the battery life is improved.

I really like these discussions. I learn things, I get to hear people's opinions and I even get to have a little laugh sometimes.

Thanks for all the contributions people.
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Re: The right decision

Post by RollyShed »

A failed HD, yes, had to replace one a few weeks ago. Dropping, if something can be dropped someone will drop it, that's life. As for never switching off, OK you never seem to go away from home. We do, weeks or a month or so at a time so it would be stupid to leave computers drawing power for no reason. The same for many people.

I see no good reason not to shut-down each evening and boot up 8-10 hours later. Power saving and keeps things cooler for longer. What about the rest of a system, power supply componentry, have you considered that?
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Re: The right decision

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kelevra wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:25 am
I am liking my decision to replace my failing spinning drive with a SSD. I was waffling between a 500GB SSD and a 2TB HDD for the same price. The SSD has breathed some new life into my little old laptop. Load times and the boot time have been reduced significantly. 5yrs warranty is a boon as well. I should be able to repurpose the drive when this laptop becomes unusable. :D
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Re: The right decision

Post by CtrlAltDel »

cliffcoggin wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:15 am
CtrlAltDel wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:06 am

So, when you drop a laptop that has a HDD in it, all bets are off. It wasn't really the HDD's fault that it quit working, it was your fault because you made it quit working.
Fault or blame has nothing to do with it. Damage can and does happen, so it is sensible to recognise the fact and try to alleviate it by building more robust components.
Well, it has a little bit to do with it. If you buy a computer with a HDD in it, walk outside the store with it and drop it and a car runs over it, it wasn't really a bad HDD and you can't trust them because they are not durable.

It's just that you dropped it and a car ran over it. It would be kind of hard to blame the HDD for not holding up well after a car ran over it.
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Re: The right decision

Post by CtrlAltDel »

RollyShed wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:54 pm
A failed HD, yes, had to replace one a few weeks ago. Dropping, if something can be dropped someone will drop it, that's life. As for never switching off, OK you never seem to go away from home. We do, weeks or a month or so at a time so it would be stupid to leave computers drawing power for no reason. The same for many people.

I see no good reason not to shut-down each evening and boot up 8-10 hours later. Power saving and keeps things cooler for longer. What about the rest of a system, power supply componentry, have you considered that?
Sure, I venture away from home; I'm not a shut-in or anything. :) My computer has a function on it called sleep mode. In fact, desktops and laptops have this. When I close the lid on a laptop, it goes to sleep. When I press the sleep button on my desktop, it too goes to sleep.

Things don't get hot when it is in sleep mode because the processor isn't running and the graphics card is idle and it's just kind of asleep. It uses no more power than a hair-dryer would that was plugged in but not actually turned on.

The desktop is always plugged into a power outlet, so it can sleep indefinitely, even while I may be on vacation and don't have access to it. The laptop, I usually take with me because it is portable.
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Re: The right decision

Post by cliffcoggin »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:30 am
It would be kind of hard to blame the HDD for not holding up well after a car ran over it.
Once again you are missing the point by trying to attribute blame. For some reason you don't want to accept that a SSD is inherently more robust than a HDD. That's your choice of course. The wrong choice, but yours nevertheless.
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Re: The right decision

Post by CtrlAltDel »

cliffcoggin wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:13 am
CtrlAltDel wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:30 am
It would be kind of hard to blame the HDD for not holding up well after a car ran over it.
Once again you are missing the point by trying to attribute blame. For some reason you don't want to accept that a SSD is inherently more robust than a HDD. That's your choice of course. The wrong choice, but yours nevertheless.
You say they are inherently more robust but, I've never had a single HDD fail since 1996, ever.

I guess that kind of clouds my judgement to just how horrible and inherently unsafe and unreliable HDD's are. I'm sure many people have had HDD's fail, just as I'm sure many people have had SSD's fail. SSD's had a reputation for dropping like so many dead flies when they first hit the market and being wildly unpredictable but, I suppose they have corrected those early missteps and now SSD's are more reliable than the sun rising.

What was it, around 2006 or 2007 when Flash SSD's became a market item and not just something for the computer lab or NASA? They weren't really everywhere, reasonably priced and easily obtainable until when, maybe 2012? When I say reasonably priced, they were still over 300 US dollars for something like a 160GB capacity.

Not until probably 2015-16 did the prices really become normalized and reasonable for everyday Joe that was not a computer enthusiast/nerd. It was really around this same time that they became much more stable and reliable too, wasn't it?

So somehow, in just about 4 or 5 years time, since SSD's have been priced reasonably and not extremely unstable and unreliable like they used to be, everyone is just supposed to place their total trust in them and view everyone that still has a HDD as a dinosaur that just can't see the light.

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Re: The right decision

Post by Moem »

... It's just stuff. Why all the drama?
Is all of that 'in good fun? Not my kind of fun, so have fun... without me.
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Re: The right decision

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Moem wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:11 am
... It's just stuff. Why all the drama?
Is all of that 'in good fun? Not my kind of fun, so have fun... without me.
As far as I can tell, it's all in good fun, Moem. I don't believe anyone is genuinely angry, or at least I hope not.

I know you aren't from the United States and probably aren't familiar with the meme I posted that is from a television show that was called Seinfeld. Seinfeld was a situational comedy that was popular throughout the 90's in my country.

The "You Think You're Better Than Me" saying was never used in a negative or denigrating way but, more as a lighthearted kind of question meant to elicit a laugh at your own expense.
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Re: The right decision

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

My brother, the "ludite" still uses his 8 track and cassette players and tapes too...lol...DAMIEN
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Re: The right decision

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DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:11 am
My brother, the "ludite" still uses his 8 track and cassette players and tapes too...lol...DAMIEN
Don't you dare say anything bad about 4-tracks and 8-tracks.
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Re: The right decision

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

I find it so nostalgic to hear an 8 track, especially when it clicks to the next track in the middle of a song...lol...cutting edge technology...lol...DAMIEN
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Re: The right decision

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

CtrlAltDel wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:01 am
...I'm just not sure that Kelevra made the right decision in regards to durability and reliable service, not to mention longevity, in his choice of a SSD over the tried and true and respected laurels that hang on the neck of HDD's.

I mean, I have a perfectly functioning HDD in my old '96 Packard Bell that purrs like a kitten. It's 24 freaking years old and works as well as the day I purchased it. It's in storage now and not really used but, that is beside the point, it worked for a long, long, time before being retired. Over 10 years without ever being shut off, only restarted when needed.

A five year warranty? Wow. That doesn't seem like that long. I'm currently running 2X1TB HDD's, six years old now, that also reside in a computer that is never turned off and they seem primed to run fine for maybe another 20 years or so, I don't know. I don't know how long they will last; HDD's just never seem to have anything go wrong with them.

A SSD, you wake up one day and bam, it just doesn't work any longer. I hope you made the right choice, Kelevra. Sacrificing three times the storage space you could have easily had at the same price for faster boot times and faster initial load times of a few programs seems a little shortsighted, no offense.

Of course, I don't boot my computer that much at all and after I run a program once and it's in memory, it opens just as fast as it would on a SSD, so, you know. A SSD is definitely good for someone that reboots their computer many, many times a day for some reason, I guess.
After reading that, my cringe muscles hurt...really hurt...from abuse by overuse.

All drives--HDD, SSD, floppy disk, optical disk--are subject to irrecoverable failure at any time without warning no matter their age or quality. You have been lucky so far to not lose data yet due to HDD failure but that's all it has been: luck! That doesn't guarantee sudden, irrecoverable failure isn't in your future.

I've had two HDDs fail on me without warning, one that did give me warning and was replaced under warranty, and one was DOA. I've had only one SSD fail without warning (and I've owned far more SSDs than HDDs) and only one arrived DOA. I never lost any data due to drive failure because I had BACKUPS! Anyone who relies on the reliability of a drive or for the drive being able to warn of impending failure to protect their data is playing an extremely dangerous game!

Yes, SSDs usually fail with no hope of recovery even if using expensive data recovery services. So what? As long as you make and maintain proper backups, if an SSD goes to computer Never, Never Land, never more to be seen (it can, and does, happen to HDDs), you still have your data and can restore it to the replacement SSD. The one SSD I had die in service lasted almost five years, most of which was 24/7 operation (I opted not to replace it under warranty since it was only 128GB and I no longer would use anything that small; instead, I replaced it with a 500GB SSD I had taken out of service on another computer). When it died, it took me only 30-40 minutes to get the computer back up and running with a replacement SSD; most of that time being because the SSD was a PITA to access (a design mistake I'll never allow to happen again!).

Whether one will find an SSD to be superior to an HDD will depend on one's needs and budget. HDDs have the huge advantage of being far less expensive than an equally sized SSD (although that gap is slowly closing). HDDs are still available in sizes larger than are available in SSDs (and that gap is also slowly closing). SSDs are far less likely to fail than HDDs. SSDs are smaller, lighter, and use less power than HDDs. SSDs are faster than HDDs (useful when booting a computer starting programs, and transferring large amounts of data). Every user has to decide for themselves whether the advantages of HDDs or SSDs outweigh the disadvantages.

Despite the huge amounts of data I have, I decided to ditch all my HDDs in favor of SSDs, despite their expense) because of their reduced size and weight. For each desktop data drive I have, I have a set of four backup drives: two of each set kept onsite at home and the other two kept offsite in my safe deposit box at my credit union. To keep the offsite backups as up to date as is practical, I swap them out with the onsite backups no less than once a month. I'm a handicapped senior citizen and lugging all those heavy HDDs to and from my credit union was killing my back and shoulders. I was also running out room to store them in my safe deposit box and at home. Also, the HDD transfer case I was using wasn't antistatic so I had to put each HDD into an antistatic sleeve, put them the case before leaving home, take them out of the case, swap them out with the ones loose in my safe deposit box, take them home, remove them from the sleeves, then put them back in their drawer (the drawer had an antistatic "egg crate" to protect the HDDs).

With the SSDs, I store them at home in a much smaller drawer in a smaller antistatic "egg crate" I made. To take them to the credit union, I put the entire "egg crate" in a smaller, lighter transfer case, take the case to the credit union, swap out the "egg crate" with the identical one in my safe deposit box, haul the case home,then put the "egg crate" back into its drawer. This saves me time and frustration and my back and shoulders are extremely grateful!), which easily justifies the increased cost of the SSDs. The fact that they are faster (backups take far less time to update!), are more durable, and use less power are happy bonuses. I didn't even care that boot times were drastically reduced with SSDs since I rebooted only one a week.

Even though I'm an SSD fan-girl, do I recommend everyone use them for everything? Heck no! Most people would be insane to use them as extensively as I do. Everyone has to make to make their decisions on whether to use them or not and when and where. If you do not feel that SSDs are your cup of tea, that's fine; that's your decision to make and no one's going to force you to use them (and I will defend you from anyone who would try to force you to use them). But please stop denigrating SSDs and castigating people who do like them just because you do not like them (not to mention the reasons you have been giving have been pure Baloney Sausage).
Last edited by Lady Fitzgerald on Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The right decision

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DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:11 am
My brother, the "ludite" still uses his 8 track and cassette players and tapes too...lol...DAMIEN
So? If he's happy with them, what's it to you?
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Re: The right decision

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

So? If he's happy with them, what's it to you?
You asked so here it is...

Hmmmm, maybe its because he has the house right next door to me and has no problem playing it a full blast at 2 am in the morning and wont turn it down until the cops come...thats how i know when he is drunk for sure, since he starts when he wakes up and doesnt stop drinking until his wife hides the stuff or the cops come...which ever comes first...DAMIEN

I should add that i stopped drinking many years ago myself and no longer drink, let alone having to put up with drunks!
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Re: The right decision

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Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:31 pm
After reading that, my cringe muscles hurt...really hurt...from abuse by overuse.
If, at your advanced age, you don't have any liver problems you could maybe try some acetaminophen for whatever minor aches and pains afflict you at any given time. Just follow the instructions on the package of whatever pain reliever you may purchase. Don't overdo it.
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:31 pm
All drives--HDD, SSD, floppy disk, optical disk--are subject to irrecoverable failure at any time without warning no matter their age or quality. You have been lucky so far to not lose data yet due to HDD failure but that's all it has been: luck! That doesn't guarantee sudden, irrecoverable failure isn't in your future.
This is incorrect. I would say that those people unfortunate enough to have a failed HDD are just unlucky. Let's be honest; the great and overwhelming majority of computer users have never had a hard-drive failure. To listen to many of you here, one would imagine that 7 out of 10 computer users have catastrophic loss of data due to HDD failure on such a regular basis as to make it hardly worth buying a computer.

That just isn't so. Probably over 90% of users just finally get rid of their old, still perfectly functioning computers after deciding to try to get something a little more modern. Many people overthink things and are constantly worrying about things because it gives them a sense of importance to worry about things and try to make a difference. Just use what you have and don't worry about it; everything will probably be okay.
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:31 pm
Yes, SSDs usually fail with no hope of recovery even if using expensive data recovery services. So what? As long as you make and maintain proper backups, if an SSD goes to computer Never, Never Land, never more to be seen (it can, and does, happen to HDDs), you still have your data and can restore it to the replacement SSD. The one SSD I had die in service lasted almost five years, most of which was 24/7 operation (I opted not to replace it under warranty since it was only 128GB and I no longer would use anything that small; instead, I replaced it with a 500GB SSD I had taken out of service on another computer). When it died, it took me only 30-40 minutes to get the computer back up and running with a replacement SSD; most of that time being because the SSD was a PITA to access (a design mistake I'll never allow to happen again!).
That is very impressive. The lengths you go to in order to preserve screenshots of webpages and pictures that you also have stored in a box somewhere is staggering. I'm just not sure how important it is to save all those pictures to look at. Very few people even look at pictures after they have been taken.

As for any images you've taken in the modern era, you should have them on your phone already so what is the point of backing them up again? To each their own, I suppose.
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:31 pm
Whether one will find an SSD to be superior to an HDD will depend on one's needs and budget. HDDs have the huge advantage of being far less expensive than an equally sized SSD (although that gap is slowly closing). HDDs are still available in sizes larger than are available in SSDs (and that gap is also slowly closing). SSDs are far less likely to fail than HDDs. SSDs are smaller, lighter, and use less power than HDDs. SSDs are faster than HDDs (useful when booting a computer starting programs, and transferring large amounts of data). Every user has to decide for themselves whether the advantages of HDDs or SSDs outweigh the disadvantages.

Despite the huge amounts of data I have, I decided to ditch all my HDDs in favor of SSDs, despite their expense) because of their reduced size and weight. For each desktop data drive I have, I have a set of four backup drives: two of each set kept onsite at home and the other two kept offsite in my safe deposit box at my credit union. To keep the offsite backups as up to date as is practical, I swap them out with the onsite backups no less than once a month. I'm a handicapped senior citizen and lugging all those heavy HDDs to and from my credit union was killing my back and shoulders. I was also running out room to store them in my safe deposit box and at home. Also, the HDD transfer case I was using wasn't antistatic so I had to put each HDD into an antistatic sleeve, put them the case before leaving home, take them out of the case, swap them out with the ones loose in my safe deposit box, take them home, remove them from the sleeves, then put them back in their drawer (the drawer had an antistatic "egg crate" to protect the HDDs).

With the SSDs, I store them at home in a much smaller drawer in a smaller antistatic "egg crate" I made. To take them to the credit union, I put the entire "egg crate" in a smaller, lighter transfer case, take the case to the credit union, swap out the "egg crate" with the identical one in my safe deposit box, haul the case home,then put the "egg crate" back into its drawer. This saves me time and frustration and my back and shoulders are extremely grateful!), which easily justifies the increased cost of the SSDs. The fact that they are faster (backups take far less time to update!), are more durable, and use less power are happy bonuses. I didn't even care that boot times were drastically reduced with SSDs since I rebooted only one a week.
That is quite a fascinating story. What's the point of all of that though? I have 2 hard drives. One has the OS on it and the other is for storage and they are both in the same box . Now, if a fire started in my home or something and the files I have saved are at danger of being lost, I'd just calmly open the computer case and remove the hard-drive I use for storage.

To save time so maybe the fire wouldn't get me, I'd just leave the hard-drive with Mint on it in the computer and let it burn. I can always get another computer and download a Mint ISO and reinstall.
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:31 pm
Even though I'm an SSD fan-girl, do I recommend everyone use them for everything? Heck no! Most people would be insane to use them as extensively as I do. Everyone has to make to make their decisions on whether to use them or not and when and where. If you do not feel that SSDs are your cup of tea, that's fine; that's your decision to make and no one's going to force you to use them (and I will defend you from anyone who would try to force you to use them). But please stop denigrating SSDs and castigating people who do like them just because you do not like them (not to mention the reasons you have been giving have been pure Baloney Sausage).
Whoa, wait a second now. I haven't denigrated anyone for choosing to use an untested and relatively new to mass market usage storage medium like a SSD. If anything, many people that have SSD's seem to have a superiority complex and can't grasp a simple concept like people still using a HDD. It doesn't compute with them that anyone not driving a Model T would still have a HDD and they are none to shy to let you know that.

They feel that they are in the future and are on the bleeding edge of an exciting new world and those who don't have the exact same specs in their boxes are languishing in a fetid pit of forgotten bygone times.
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Re: The right decision

Post by CtrlAltDel »

DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:49 pm
So? If he's happy with them, what's it to you?
You asked so here it is...

Hmmmm, maybe its because he has the house right next door to me and has no problem playing it a full blast at 2 am in the morning and wont turn it down until the cops come...thats how i know when he is drunk for sure, since he starts when he wakes up and doesnt stop drinking until his wife hides the stuff or the cops come...which ever comes first...DAMIEN

I should add that i stopped drinking many years ago myself and no longer drink, let alone having to put up with drunks!
Your brother sounds like a pretty cool dude, Damien. I mean, blasting home stereo 8-tracks at 2 in the morning and getting the cops called on you for drinking a beer is some Willie Nelson/Merle Haggard/Johnny Cash renegade 'till you die type of coolness.
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Re: The right decision

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DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:49 pm
So? If he's happy with them, what's it to you?
You asked so here it is...

Hmmmm, maybe its because he has the house right next door to me and has no problem playing it a full blast at 2 am in the morning and wont turn it down until the cops come...thats how i know when he is drunk for sure, since he starts when he wakes up and doesnt stop drinking until his wife hides the stuff or the cops come...which ever comes first...DAMIEN

I should add that i stopped drinking many years ago myself and no longer drink, let alone having to put up with drunks!
Your brother being inconsiderate has nothing to do with him being a Luddite. You should have lead with how he blasts his music at odd hours.
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Re: The right decision

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

Hmmmm, maybe its because he has the house right next door to me and has no problem playing it a full blast at 2 am in the morning
I DID lead in with him playing "music at odd hours...THEN I went into detail...he also says the greatest invention ever was the "push button phone" replacing rotary dial phones...If that isnt a luddite?...lol...DAMIEN
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Re: The right decision

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

Your brother sounds like a pretty cool dude, Damien. I mean, blasting home stereo 8-tracks at 2 in the morning and getting the cops called on you for drinking a beer is some Willie Nelson/Merle Haggard/Johnny Cash renegade 'till you die type of coolness.
Its not beer he's drinking but pure str8t rot gut vodka at least 2 fifths daily...im suprised hes still breathing...Hes not playing country either, its all 50s and 60s rock...and as far as being a "pretty cool dude"...Theres nothing cool about a fall down, angry at the world, belligerent, ranting and raving alcoholic...They need to be pittied, especially the ones that refuse any and all help and him being 68 yrs old, i dont see that happening anytime soon...I, for one would like to see him make "The right decision" for once in his life...DAMIEN
ORDO AB CHAO
"I refuse to be assimilated, I refuse to become one with the Borg Collective"
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