Test report on new Darter Pro and Mint

[MurphCID]

Stick with Ubuntu or better with what Linux Mint makes available. Don't be at all surprised if the 5.13 when available is a repeat of the 5.14 experience with LM 20.2. Breaks, doesn't tell you what all broke, left scratching head and reinstalling. Though shouldn't by the time LM's people make it available. If they say it's good to go with 20.2 then it surely will be. Though it's still a try it and see affair, it's just awesome they're taking steps. Once again, shows LM cares about the userbase.

Still backup/restore can take much of the pain away, as can doing such experimentation in a VM, with a real hypervisor eg: KVM.

Much of what I typed could be misconstrued too. Think we all know LM is kickbutt. Just because a given kernel officially goes EOL doesn't mean patches and etc can't/won't be applied to it. Thanks for the thanks Murph, it's enjoyable discussing tech and LM forum is about the best around too.

So perhaps time to fire up some VM's and/or start dabbling in multiboot. Because it sounds overall like you're happy with LM 20.2 and that it's running well on that new beast of a laptop. The stuff with your phone not sure. I'm too fuzzy brained atm to even think. Problem = more coffee = solution.

Superb advice. Once more thanks. I am loving this laptop, it has the power duration that I wanted. I am really impressed.

[DAMIEN1307]

Just because a given kernel officially goes EOL doesn't mean patches and etc can't/won't be applied to it

To my knowledge, when a kernel goes EOL, that is exactly what will happen...EOL DOES mean patches and etc. WON'T be applied to it!!!...No further support from the developers or Linux Mint will be applied to it..."He's dead Jim"...lol...DAMIEN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxfi7XMS8pw

[famouslastwords]

Nah ... at very least becomes Ubuntu kernel people's job to upkeep the thing. If something serious emerged, it's somebody's responsibility to address it. Does mean kernel.org is officially moving on with their lives. Edit: and would say go with a LTS kernel version if/when possible that's maintained upstream of Canonical.

That's my understanding anyway. If some critical bug pops up, not like they (Canonical) can just say, ah ... oh well. Life goes on, sorry X-millions of endusers. The kernel we shipped with is leaving you with pants around ankles, sowwie.

Honestly the intricacies on that level of Nix distribution development/maintenance is above my paygrade. I don't like Ubuntu (Canonical Inc), never have, never will. However preversely very much like and have trust in Linux Mint. Have come to consider them 2 very different things regardless of Linux Mint mains base.

People involved w Mint have shown time and again over the years, they actually give a frig about the distro's users.

[MurphCID]

That is so true the mint team really seems to care a lot about their users. I wonder what Pop 0S is using as a kernel since they are essentially an Ubuntu knock off? Not that I really care because I’m not impressed with their operating system at all. What’s so annoying is that it doesn’t allow you to do basic things like you can do in Mint, such as right click in the menu to uninstall software which is flipping brilliant IMHO.

Is this laptop perfect? No! But is it a darn sight closer to perfect than any other laptop I have ever owned? You bet. Despite it really not liking certain distros, and kernels, I am not unhappy at all. The Lemur Pro is also as close to perfect as any laptop I have owned as well.

[DAMIEN1307]

Nah ... at very least becomes Ubuntu kernel people's job to upkeep the thing. If something serious emerged, it's somebody's responsibility to address it. Does mean kernel.org is officially moving on with their lives. Edit: and would say go with a LTS kernel version if/when possible that's maintained upstream of Canonical.

Let me state this a little more clearly than i did previously.

If a kernel is deemed EOL, with the exception of a kernel designated as LTS by any particular distro, (such as the 4.15.xx series kernel in certain LM distros as an example that are considered LTS until April of 2023), then it is dead as a doornail as regards bug or security updates...It is no longer supported by its developers or the EOL distro version any longer...DAMIEN

[SMG]

<mod note> Forum-rule violation post removed. Several other posts were modified to remove the excessive color/font emphasis.</mod>
________________________________________________

Let's keep in mind that what kernel.org considers an LTS kernel is not what a distro such as Ubuntu/Mint considers an LTS kernel. I think you may be confusing the two.

The kernels used by Ubuntu/Mint are different "branches" of the kernel tree. The distro can continue supporting a kernel long after kernel.org stops supporting that version. That is the case with the 4.15 LTS kernel (used in LM19) and the 5.4 LTS kernel (used in LM20). Those LTS kernels are supported by Canonical. When they go end of life, they stop receiving patches and support.

The 5.10 LTS kernel supported by kernel.org is not used by Ubuntu or Mint. There is a 5.10-oem kernel available through Ubuntu, but that is different from the 5.10 LTS available and supported through kernel.org.

The 5.11 kernel available through Update Manager in Mint is being maintained and patched by Canoncial through February 2022. Mint uses kernels maintained by Canonical. Those are the officially supported kernels for Mint.

Everyone, please keep the conversation civil.

[MurphCID]

Let's keep in mind that what kernel.org considers an LTS kernel is not what a distro such as Ubuntu/Mint considers an LTS kernel. I think you may be confusing the two.

The kernels used by Ubuntu/Mint are different "branches" of the kernel tree. The distro can continue supporting a kernel long after kernel.org stops supporting that version. That is the case with the 4.15 LTS kernel (used in LM19) and the 5.4 LTS kernel (used in LM20). Those LTS kernels are supported by Canonical. When they go end of life, they stop receiving patches and support.

The 5.10 LTS kernel supported by kernel.org is not used by Ubuntu or Mint. There is a 5.10-oem kernel available through Ubuntu, but that is different from the 5.10 LTS available and supported through kernel.org.

The 5.11 kernel available through Update Manager in Mint is being maintained and patched by Canoncial through February 2022. Mint uses kernels maintained by Canonical. Those are the officially supported kernels for Mint.

Everyone, please keep the conversation civil.

Thank you for that information, that might be why my experiment did not work….

[MurphCID]

Thanks to the expert advice of Moem, I was able to solve a (self-inflicted) issue with Skype for Linux. The pesky bugger would not uninstall completely, well it had added a PPA. Grrrrrr. Now that annoyance is gone, things are working great again. I am a bit disappointed that I have issues with both the repo standard install of Skype and the Flatpak since I do use Skype on occasion. Oh well, if I need Skype, I'll use the desktop running Windows. On the upside, I AM learning more Linux terminal commands since I am learning that Terminal is usually quicker than the GUI. I still need hand holding, but I might actually be able to take a few unassisted steps RSN. I realized that I have three Linux laptops in the house, two with Mint, one with Manjaro. Pretty good for me, I am avoiding Terminal under Manjaro since the commands are so different. No "sudo" under Pacman. Plus their update command is Pacman -Syu (completely non-intuative) to me since I know (sort of) the Debian commands.

So I have my favorite Cinnamox-heather running along with Mint-Y Dark teal icons using a dark theme (except for task bar). It looks the way I like, and other than the 5.11 shutdown lag, it is running great.

[MurphCID]

My babies:



https://www.flickr.com/photos/30331728@ ... ed-public/

Can't get it to insert here for whatever reason. Also ignore the red towel, I have to keep it in the window since when it rains, this window leaks like a fiend, and I have had it allow in enough rain to kill one laptop that was sitting on the desk. The window instead of being an up/down opening, is a side to side open window. Yes, I know the desk is messy, I will never win an award from Tech Source (LOL). And yes I like Buckaroo Banzai, Serenity, Texas and Coffee.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

My babies:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30331728@ ... ed-public/

Can't get it to insert here for whatever reason. Also ignore the red towel, I have to keep it in the window since when it rains, this window leaks like a fiend, and I have had it allow in enough rain to kill one laptop that was sitting on the desk. The window instead of being an up/down opening, is a side to side open window. Yes, I know the desk is messy, I will never win an award from Tech Source (LOL). And yes I like Buckaroo Banzai, Serenity, Texas and Coffee.

A clean desk is a sign of a sick mind so no worries.

Forgive my curiosity; is the System 76 logo on your machines stickers or are they molded on. Mine were stickers and I couldn't pull those off fast enough once I had it up and running, mostly because it galled me that the characters were upside down when the lid was closed on my desk (bit also because I'm a cheap, ornery old broad who doesn't like to give free advertising). I'm a bit lax on my sticker bombing on the cover; I only have three stickers of Tux in the center of varying sizes (Baby Tux, Mama Tux, and Papa Tux?) and a Caution, Flux Capacitor on Board sticker (the PSU brick is big enough to handle 1.21 Gigawatts) in one corner. You put me to shame and I must up my game.

[MurphCID]

My babies:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30331728@ ... ed-public/

Can't get it to insert here for whatever reason. Also ignore the red towel, I have to keep it in the window since when it rains, this window leaks like a fiend, and I have had it allow in enough rain to kill one laptop that was sitting on the desk. The window instead of being an up/down opening, is a side to side open window. Yes, I know the desk is messy, I will never win an award from Tech Source (LOL). And yes I like Buckaroo Banzai, Serenity, Texas and Coffee.

A clean desk is a sign of a sick mind so no worries.

Forgive my curiosity; is the System 76 logo on your machines stickers or are they molded on. Mine were stickers and I couldn't pull those off fast enough once I had it up and running, mostly because it galled me that the characters were upside down when the lid was closed on my desk (bit also because I'm a cheap, ornery old broad who doesn't like to give free advertising). I'm a bit lax on my sticker bombing on the cover; I only have three stickers of Tux in the center of varying sizes (Baby Tux, Mama Tux, and Papa Tux?) and a Caution, Flux Capacitor on Board sticker (the PSU brick is big enough to handle 1.21 Gigawatts) in one corner. You put me to shame and I must up my game.

Stickers Darn it!!! Also I have found that stickers on your PC increase speed by at least a minor quantum amount, and increase disk size again by a same unquatifiable amount. I keep the System 76 stickers on the laptop since it gets comments at Coffee shops. That way I can also speak about Linux in general and Mint in specific.

[MurphCID]

I'm really liking this computer, but the Lemur will certainly be my carry computer for normal day to day carry. My boss had a long talk with me today, and told me flat out that I did not need to retire, I needed to remain at the office. My problem is that I am really about done. I had planned next week as a recharge my battery time, now it is going to be a fix my knee and work on physical therapy instead of relaxing. I had planned on getting up and going and doing things, now that does not look like it will happen.

The keyboard on this laptop is very nice to type on, and has a very good feel. Probably one of the best I have ever used. Even better than the Gen One Darter Pro, and the Lemur Pro. Well enough blathering, I am just enjoying my new machine. Next project, a new Hot water heater.

[farkas]

Post by MurphCID » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:01 pm
Well I followed the directions here: https://itsfoss.com/upgrade-linux-kernel-ubuntu/ It shows the 5.14 Kernel installed, boots (slowly) and the installer tells me that there is a broken kernel package. It tells me to use the "Broken" command to find what is wrong. I have not the knowledge or experience, and so have FUBAR'ed my system somewhat. It works, and shows the 5.14 there, but I am going to re-install MInt and try again. Not sure what went wrong. But this is how you learn.

No need to reinstall LM every time you try something new and it doesn't quite work the way you expected it it or crashed for some reason other. Whenever I try something that risky or really stupid I make clone of my boot drive to an external drive. It makes an exact copy of the drive. No need to reinstall anything, just let clone utility it do its thing and your machine will be back to same state as it was before the experiment.
I've been using Foxclone.
https://www.foxclone.com/index.php
Developed by AndyMH of LM forums.
Fairly easy to use with a good set of how to instructions. As always RTFI before using. Also take a look at
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=315557

[MurphCID]

Post by MurphCID » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:01 pm
Well I followed the directions here: https://itsfoss.com/upgrade-linux-kernel-ubuntu/ It shows the 5.14 Kernel installed, boots (slowly) and the installer tells me that there is a broken kernel package. It tells me to use the "Broken" command to find what is wrong. I have not the knowledge or experience, and so have FUBAR'ed my system somewhat. It works, and shows the 5.14 there, but I am going to re-install MInt and try again. Not sure what went wrong. But this is how you learn.

No need to reinstall LM every time you try something new and it doesn't quite work the way you expected it it or crashed for some reason other. Whenever I try something that risky or really stupid I make clone of my boot drive to an external drive. It makes an exact copy of the drive. No need to reinstall anything, just let clone utility it do its thing and your machine will be back to same state as it was before the experiment.
I've been using Foxclone.
https://www.foxclone.com/index.php
Developed by AndyMH of LM forums.
Fairly easy to use with a good set of how to instructions. As always RTFI before using. Also take a look at
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=315557

Good idea, I will go get an external that I can use, and try that.

[MurphCID]

Reinstalling POP OS on the old Darter, just for grins. Mostly I am bored sitting at home since I cannot really walk right now.

Update: Got it installed, odd behavior, just reinforces my dislike/disdain for Gnome. I think I will try the XFCE desktop RSN, but right now I am upstairs doing battle with the hospital scheduling department for my pre-op tests. I really like the new Darter Pro over the old one, not only is the battery life a magnitude greater, but it looks better, and just works better. 66% battery showing 9:23 hours left. Amazing.

The version of POP OS is the LTS 20.04 but it is running the 5.13 kernel which the older machine likes (well it is running its preferred operating system). I have discovered that I am going to have to put a sticker on the keyboard deck since my watch is scratching the finish as I type. I have a metal band on the watch. I stuck a generic System 76 sticker there, and now I am not scratching the deck as much.

I have discovered that I like having the older computer to play with, break things, and try other distros. The New Darter Pro, and Lemur Pro are MINT ONLY machines, and they shall not be used for testing. They are my stable machines (I hope I don't eat these words...). I suspect the youngest child will want to use the newer one when she comes home for Thanksgiving break. BUT NO DONUTS NEAR THIS LAPTOP!!!

https://twitter.com/murphcid141/status/ ... 08/photo/1

[MurphCID]

Once it gets stable enough I might install Cutefish OS (Debian version) on the older Darter Pro to try it out. Cutefish really looks nice in terms of look and feel. The (new) Darter will remain with Mint since it just works so well. The older one, gets whatever I want to test (and will run on Coreboot Gen 1).

[MurphCID]

Ok, Manjaro back on the old Darter Pro and it was a more difficult installlation/update since there were problems which I ended up discovering were on my side with my internet. Stable again, and no Gnome stupidity (same for POP OS). So everything works more or less like Mint, I think I even managed to get the printer installed and working. That was a chore.

[MurphCID]

Holy Mouse Speed Batman! I am using this thing on my desktop mat, and the mouse has a serious case of the zoomies. I have a Hyper X extra large mouse mat that I normally do not use the logitech small mouse on. My daughter is looking at me strangely, since I have the dual monitor desktop going, plus this one. But I am watching Youtube on one monitor, playing Civ VI on another, and surfing Linux forums on this one. I don't see what the problem is..... I am really enjoying this laptop and so far things are working well.

[MurphCID]

OMG! these things are fingerprint magnets. I might have to wash my hands and use alcohol rub to remove oil before I touch these two laptops, or I will have to wear cotton gloves Good grief Charlie Brown, I have never had laptops that got dirty like these. But that is only cosmetic, as for performance, both are great. I am sitting at Black Rifle in a great deal of pain but since I just finished my pre-op tests, I figured I owed myself a cup of Joe. So I hobbled in on my crutches, and will spend a little time here. It is almost getting too painful to drive, so this might be my last outing until the surgery is finished. I took this week off just so I could have a week of down time, I had not planned on the unexpected.

Home and the pain has leveled out around a 7.5/10. So as a result please understand I might come off a being a bit of a jackass for the next day or so. I will apologize up front. I have discovered that the little Lemur Pro has become my "take it around the house system". Battery life is still astonishing, brightness is down to 15% and it is almost too bright. I have been playing with Linux terminal commands today, from this site: https://www.fosslinux.com/45587/linux-c ... -sheet.htm just to play and see what I can do. If I scrag the system, so be it, I can always re-install and go forth. I DO NOT plan on doing any of the rm commands though....

I tried something on this laptop using a USB-C to Ethernet dongle, and as soon as I plugged in the cable, the laptop (AND MINT) switched to wired connection, and as soon as I unplugged it, the WiFi turned back on. Since the Lemur Pro does not have an Ethernet port, the USB-C dongle is the best option at this point. It works well and seamlessly. I am also watching one of my favorite YouTube Linux content creators Jay LaCroix talking about quitting his job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bjv14iXa4o

[MurphCID]

So far I have been using the new Darter as my laptop since I am laid up. The only issue I have is the lap desk I am using is almost too small for the Darter. The 5.11 shutdown lag has been the same on this one as on the Lemur Pro. I do not have a shutdown lag on the older Darter using the 5.14 kernel. I wonder what the issue is with the 5.11 Kernel? System is completely updated, all my software is installed, and working great. Other than those issues I am pleased. Power is pretty decent, I am going to drop the brightness some more ( I dropped it to 16%). That should give me some extra battery power, and the screen is plenty bright. Coreboot Gen 2 seems to more stable than the prior generation of coreboot on the old Darter Pro.