Desktop Environments and choice
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Re: Desktop Environments and choice
Trying KDE on Manjaro, and it is pretty decent, but I have not had a whole lot of experience with KDE, so I will play.
- Portreve
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Re: Desktop Environments and choice
Well, I'm not so sure about that.
Arrogance? Ego? Stupidity? Etwas Anderson?
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Recommended keyboard layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
Podcasts: Linux Unplugged, Destination Linux
Also check out Thor Hartmannsson's Linux Tips YouTube Channel
Re: Desktop Environments and choice
Agreed. KDE is IMHO almost as good a Cinnamon, and slightly better in a very small number of other things. I like being able to choose other icon sets, that is nice and handy. QT desktop seems more attractive than GTK, certainly more modern and Mac like in terms of looking good. I am beginning to think that the problem is GTK.....
Re: Desktop Environments and choice
Apple has never done it that way, they use different ones.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
Re: Desktop Environments and choice
I've used a shed load of DEs and read the docs and I am sure about it.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
Re: Desktop Environments and choice
I actually think there's a bit too much choice there, many of these DEs are really not that different and many if not most don't have a lot to distinguish them. They all do the same thing really.
Some are driven more by corporate needs. The reason that Gnome is so big is because in larger multiuser installations it's a lot easier to manage users using scripts. So it's also very well supported, and by real professionals. This gives some users with simpler needs reason to use them as well. I think this is also partly why systemd has taken over so much.
Personally, I'm the only user on my machines and I like KDE best. And I don't like systemd. On forums like these I never saw as many problems with the old SysV init system that I see with systemd, and sysV is a lot faster.
Some are driven more by corporate needs. The reason that Gnome is so big is because in larger multiuser installations it's a lot easier to manage users using scripts. So it's also very well supported, and by real professionals. This gives some users with simpler needs reason to use them as well. I think this is also partly why systemd has taken over so much.
Personally, I'm the only user on my machines and I like KDE best. And I don't like systemd. On forums like these I never saw as many problems with the old SysV init system that I see with systemd, and sysV is a lot faster.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
Re: Desktop Environments and choice
Do you use any other distro besides Mint?
- Portreve
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Re: Desktop Environments and choice
This is the reason I need to be a LOT more careful when writing posts on my phone. I really, really, really hate much of the auto-predict aspect of auto-correct on the OSKs. That was supposed to say "etwas anderes". Pronounced et-vass ahn-der-ess, it's German for "something else".
I'm trying to figure out how to respond to this, and frankly I'm stumped.
KDE is not a DE for beginners, with the sole exception to that being if we're talking about someone who just uses it exactly as-is and makes no attempt to modify it in any way. And even then, that person would need to be very comfortable with the classic Windows desktop environment (whatever the heck Microsoft calls it) because that sucker is extremely rough around the edges.
I've never seen Qt used for anything other than the KDE environment, and there's not the slightest chance KDE is in any way Classic Mac OS- or Mac OS X/macOS-like. No, that particular "honor" goes to the Gnome 3.x desktop and its associated GTK (for some of the slickness-of-graphical-elements), and otherwise Cinnamon, which overall is the closest you'll ever come to anything Apple's ever released for a Mac. That said, I'd love to see what a reimplementation of macOS's DE using Qt would look like. Heck, for that matter, what it would look like using GTK as well.MurphCID wrote: ⤴Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:27 am Agreed. KDE is IMHO almost as good a Cinnamon, and slightly better in a very small number of other things. I like being able to choose other icon sets, that is nice and handy. QT desktop seems more attractive than GTK, certainly more modern and Mac like in terms of looking good. I am beginning to think that the problem is GTK.....
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Recommended keyboard layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
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Also check out Thor Hartmannsson's Linux Tips YouTube Channel
Recommended keyboard layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
Podcasts: Linux Unplugged, Destination Linux
Also check out Thor Hartmannsson's Linux Tips YouTube Channel
Re: Desktop Environments and choice
for the last couple years, I've only tried Xfce,Lxde ubuntu gnome and cinnamon.MurphCID wrote: ⤴Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:01 pm XFCE: Decent, looks old so to reinforce the perception that Linux is old, it just looks "cludgy" in its non modified form. Icons are so 2000's but it can be modified.
GNOME: I hate it, and cannot give it an honest unbiased appreciation. I still think it looks like a 3rd rate Mac OS knock off that is trying to be a mobile phone DE.
XFCE I've tried on Kali linux and on a Debian virtualbox install. I think the design in itself is not that bad, but something with the fonts/typefaces used just gives me that early 90's Windows 3.0 vibe
The RaspberryPi OS uses LXDE, which I find very suitable for such a device with limited resurces. Lean & clean, with a little of the same look as xfce
Tried Ubuntu 20.04 last year, but after being kinda spoilt by fiddling with Mint Cinnamon, using Ubuntu with gnome just felt cumbersome, backwards and not intuitive at all.
So, cinnamon for me, it just works without getting in my way.
I recall from my old linux testing days that KDE already had a plethora of confusing settings for a noob, Gnome 2 was good. Briefly tested Unity too , cant recall it sucked as bad as some claims, lol
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Re: Desktop Environments and choice
On a lark, I decided to install Budgie on my Ubuntu VM to check it out. I think Budgie would be a great DE for someone moving from Apple products. Seems to have lots of configurability/customization. It would require a bit of customization to be usable by me. The app bar at the bottom takes way too much vertical real estate., and the top bar can't be shrunk less than about 32px (at least on my laptop). But Apple users like their big fluffy icons.
And it's not Deepin. (Sorry, Deepin, but I'm still not convinced you have the public's best interest at heart.)
Re: Desktop Environments and choice
I agree with that, who knows what spyware is buried there.AwesomeOpossum74 wrote: ⤴Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:33 pmOn a lark, I decided to install Budgie on my Ubuntu VM to check it out. I think Budgie would be a great DE for someone moving from Apple products. Seems to have lots of configurability/customization. It would require a bit of customization to be usable by me. The app bar at the bottom takes way too much vertical real estate., and the top bar can't be shrunk less than about 32px (at least on my laptop). But Apple users like their big fluffy icons.
And it's not Deepin. (Sorry, Deepin, but I'm still not convinced you have the public's best interest at heart.)
Re: Desktop Environments and choice
I am more impressed with KDE at this point, although it still has a stupid number of choices which could be intimidating. Cinnamon is still my gold standard. I have not even addressed the tiling window managers, since they are outside of my knowledge base.
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Re: Desktop Environments and choice
It's interesting, all of our experiences. I tried KDE for a few weeks. I set up my keybindings, made it look and act like my Cinnamon setup, etc. I found it clumsy, and somewhat slow to respond compared to Cinnamon.
If Cinnamon wasn't around, KDE would be my go-to. But Cinnamon fills in all the little usability gaps left open by KDE.
I tried the same with Gnome, and got stymied by not being able to move the topbar to the side. On a small laptop display, vertical space is precious, and that immovable topbar is an intruder.
- Lady Fitzgerald
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Re: Desktop Environments and choice
1. I'm a user, not a tinkerer. I only tinker enough to let me use something properly. I don't have to have the latest and greatest (which isn't always the greatest, BTW) as long as my needs are being met.
2. I firmly believe in "if it aint broke, don't fix it!" I started with Cinnamon and I do not feel it's "broke".
3. It takes me forever to learn anything and I'm still learning how to use Mint 19.3 and Cinnamon so I'm staying with both on this machine as long as they "ain't broke" (i.e. haven't reached EOL).
I'm not putting down those who do love to tinker, I'm just saying I'm not one of them and why.
2. I firmly believe in "if it aint broke, don't fix it!" I started with Cinnamon and I do not feel it's "broke".
3. It takes me forever to learn anything and I'm still learning how to use Mint 19.3 and Cinnamon so I'm staying with both on this machine as long as they "ain't broke" (i.e. haven't reached EOL).
I'm not putting down those who do love to tinker, I'm just saying I'm not one of them and why.
Jeannie
To ensure the safety of your data, you have to be proactive, not reactive, so, back it up!
To ensure the safety of your data, you have to be proactive, not reactive, so, back it up!
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Re: Desktop Environments and choice
I'd argue that just by using Linux you probably have more tech knowledge than most Windows users. What you (Lady Fitzgerald) accomplish with a few keystrokes is "magick" to the unwashed masses.Lady Fitzgerald wrote: ⤴Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:44 pm 1. I'm a user, not a tinkerer. I only tinker enough to let me use something properly. I don't have to have the latest and greatest (which isn't always the greatest, BTW) as long as my needs are being met.
Personal anecdote: A few months ago I was working on my adult son's laptop. In front of him, I ran the standard apt commands in cli to update the system, and installed a couple packages. He called it "hacking sh--", because of all the text scrolling. He knows how to manage his music collection via gui software, and that's it.
- Lady Fitzgerald
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Re: Desktop Environments and choice
Thanks but it's only from necessity, not a love of tinkering.AwesomeOpossum74 wrote: ⤴Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:32 pmI'd argue that just by using Linux you probably have more tech knowledge than most Windows users. What you (Lady Fitzgerald) accomplish with a few keystrokes is "magick" to the unwashed masses. ...Lady Fitzgerald wrote: ⤴Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:44 pm 1. I'm a user, not a tinkerer. I only tinker enough to let me use something properly. I don't have to have the latest and greatest (which isn't always the greatest, BTW) as long as my needs are being met.
Jeannie
To ensure the safety of your data, you have to be proactive, not reactive, so, back it up!
To ensure the safety of your data, you have to be proactive, not reactive, so, back it up!
Re: Desktop Environments and choice
If there was no cinnamon, I would use KDE since it is the next best thing IMO.AwesomeOpossum74 wrote: ⤴Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:51 pmIt's interesting, all of our experiences. I tried KDE for a few weeks. I set up my keybindings, made it look and act like my Cinnamon setup, etc. I found it clumsy, and somewhat slow to respond compared to Cinnamon.
If Cinnamon wasn't around, KDE would be my go-to. But Cinnamon fills in all the little usability gaps left open by KDE.
I tried the same with Gnome, and got stymied by not being able to move the topbar to the side. On a small laptop display, vertical space is precious, and that immovable topbar is an intruder.
Re: Desktop Environments and choice
Just read this:
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/02/kde ... -whats-new
One thing I dislike about Plasma is that it's constantly introducing new features at a stunningly fast pace
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/02/kde ... -whats-new
One thing I dislike about Plasma is that it's constantly introducing new features at a stunningly fast pace
- Portreve
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Re: Desktop Environments and choice
I started off as a Mac user, and of all the different DEs of old, without a doubt Gnome was the most Mac OS Finder-like.
I was still hip deep into using Mac OS and then Mac OS X when Gnome 3.0 came out, and my reaction to it was much the same as MurphCID above. While it has "gotten better" over all the subsequent dot releases, at the end of the day it remains a tablet interface trying to live in a desktop space.
I also second the comment about Cinnamon being the gold standard, particularly coming from the Classic Mac OS / Mac OS X world. I wouldn't hesitate a second to recommend it to anyone who uses a Mac.
This all said, i think we may be ignoring the vital contribution the underlying distro makes to the user experience. Recently i was running the (still) latest release of openSUSE, 15.3, and i couldn't help but be struck by how fundamentally unfriendly it was. I know enough to get by, but i couldn't help but constantly be reminded it (and other distros like it) pretty much require at least my level of technical knowledge and prior experience just to install it, much less to get by with it as your daily driver. Simply installing Cinnamon on top of it would not give you the same experience as you get running Cinnamon on Mint.
I was still hip deep into using Mac OS and then Mac OS X when Gnome 3.0 came out, and my reaction to it was much the same as MurphCID above. While it has "gotten better" over all the subsequent dot releases, at the end of the day it remains a tablet interface trying to live in a desktop space.
I also second the comment about Cinnamon being the gold standard, particularly coming from the Classic Mac OS / Mac OS X world. I wouldn't hesitate a second to recommend it to anyone who uses a Mac.
This all said, i think we may be ignoring the vital contribution the underlying distro makes to the user experience. Recently i was running the (still) latest release of openSUSE, 15.3, and i couldn't help but be struck by how fundamentally unfriendly it was. I know enough to get by, but i couldn't help but constantly be reminded it (and other distros like it) pretty much require at least my level of technical knowledge and prior experience just to install it, much less to get by with it as your daily driver. Simply installing Cinnamon on top of it would not give you the same experience as you get running Cinnamon on Mint.
Flying this flag in support of freedom 🇺🇦
Recommended keyboard layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
Podcasts: Linux Unplugged, Destination Linux
Also check out Thor Hartmannsson's Linux Tips YouTube Channel
Recommended keyboard layout: English (intl., with AltGR dead keys)
Podcasts: Linux Unplugged, Destination Linux
Also check out Thor Hartmannsson's Linux Tips YouTube Channel