Real coders prefer....

[MurphCID]

I have been reading and watching videos and it seems that many (not all) pro coders prefer to code on a Mac for some reason. Linux is a close second, with Windows a distant third in preference. I don't see anyone using the various BSD offerings. What makes the Mac such a good coding platform? I know the screen on the Macbook Air I got my wife is stunningly nice, the battery life is exceptional, and the keyboard is...ok..ish. But the screen, OMG, what a lovely screen.

[Termy]

I wouldn't refer to myself as a "pro coder", by any stretch of the imagination, but I am a high-level programmer (albeit in a bit of a hiatus), so maybe I can offer something.

I prefer Linux. It's a great development platform, because you have complete freedom to set up your environment in the best way possible. Granted, I do only deal with high level languages, dabbling aside, so there may be more issues with low level programming in Linux, although I've not heard of anything major from those who do use such languages. Linux basically gives me access to amazing things that allow me to be as productive as possible, such as i3WM. I've read/heard similar things from other programmers who prefer Linux. I think it's just down to preference, what is required, and/or the target audience of their code.

I don't think there is any one perfect choice for programmers.

Systems like OpenBSD seem to be much more about strict security and various servers.

I guess you could argue that some programmers may opt for a Mac, because if they're going to stare at a screen for copious amounts of time, they may as well look at a nice one, right? But, that argument falls flat when you remember you can just get any fancy monitor you want with your Linux machine. IMO, a decent IPS monitor is all you need, or as it least all I need.

[The Muffin Man]

It's the keyboard. [on the Mac]

[Termy]

It's the keyboard. [on the Mac]

Really? What's so fantabulous about the Mac keyboard for programming? You can just get any keyboard for your Linux machine. Is it specifically the Mac keyboard, or the style it uses? Personally, I couldn't be without a full-sized keyboard with the keys in the correct places. It drives me nuts when I see weird things, like the pipe ('|') in some bizarre place on the keyboard, like on those compact keyboards. That's possibly just specific to UK keyboards, though. I need a Number Pad, too.

[MurphCID]

And I like keyboards with no number pad, just a quirk. Best keyboard I have ever used is on an HP Dev One, with the Lemur Pro close behind. The Mac keyboard to me "feels" weird. But a lot of people love it.

[The Muffin Man]

It's the keyboard. [on the Mac]

Really? What's so fantabulous about the Mac keyboard for programming? You can just get any keyboard for your Linux machine. Is it specifically the Mac keyboard, or the style it uses? Personally, I couldn't be without a full-sized keyboard with the keys in the correct places. It drives me nuts when I see weird things, like the pipe ('|') in some bizarre place on the keyboard, like on those compact keyboards. That's possibly just specific to UK keyboards, though. I need a Number Pad, too.

That was my thought, too, until I tried it. For many, many, years, for development, I used Mac (the trash can) keyboard, etc and Remote Desktop to Windows (I develop for both). This got rid of the need of a KVM switch. Since COVID, I've used a MBP. The keyboard is top notch (the separate one as well as the one on the MBP)

[Hoser Rob]

Most coders prefer Macs? I wouldn't say that based on some videos by YT cowboys.

I know a guy here who's a real coder and used to work for IBM. For the last 20 years or so if you buy one of those turnkey IBM enterprise setups, it runs Linux. Guess what almost all of the programmers in his office used for Linux programming? Windows boxes. He was the only one running Linux at work in his office, to witre software fdor Linux systems.

The truth is that real programmers are actually platform agnostic. The principles are the same everywhere.

[dave0808]

In my experience, up until a few years ago (and you-know-what), it was a case of using the systems that were provided by the employer. Given the expense of Apple hardware, I didn't come across many companies buying them in bulk for development teams^. The exception here that I saw was for graphic designers.

(^) That might be skewed by not working for any outfit that produced mobile apps, where Macs are pretty much a prerequisite for creating iOS apps, AIUI.

Since about 3 years ago, and many of us working from home, there has been much more use of our own devices and in increasing cases companies have moved even more onto BYOD (Bring Your Own Device). Hardware at the office is still required though for those days we have to go in . Coding on a 13" laptop screen utterly sucks when one is used to 2 x FHD monitors or better.

[MurphCID]

I was watching videos and reading sites and apparently the MOST recommended coders laptop is the 2021 Macbook Pro 16.1" unit. The combination of great screen and good keyboard is a factor. Plus the software is designed to work well together which is a fact in its popularity.

[Portreve]

I've gotten to play (briefly) with Apple's Studio Display, and it's pretty hard to deny having a 4K type display would be really nice. Now, not $1,599 (€1.549,75 / £1,344.87) or $4,999 (€4.845,03 / £4,204.52) nice by any means, but pretty d@&n nice nonetheless. Of course, the Pro XDR has all kinds of super-fancy color correction stuff for it, and so for specialized professional use cases, it makes sense to go with that hardware, but the regular person doesn't need anything remotely close to that.

For most "normal" folk, the idea display G27P 27" IPS 4K UHD Gaming Monitor for $229.99 (€222,91 / £193.43) or the GIGABYTE M28U-AE Arm Edition 28" 144Hz 2160P UHD KVM Gaming Monitor for $449.99 (€436.13 / £378.47) would be more than enough. I wish you could get a 24" (60,96 cm) in 4K, but it looks like you have to go to at least 27" (68,58 cm) for that. My present Acer H236HL 23" (58,42 cm) monitor for me is an ideal size. It's big without being too big. Now, I can totally *fit* a 27" on my desk (there's no hutch, so in principle I can put any size monitor here that I feel like) but I don't really need one that big.

The reason I bring this up is I completely understand wanting a better resolution display for handling type, which of course is exactly what coders deal with every day, as well as sys admins, and the ability to not lose legibility can't be overstated.

[The Muffin Man]

The truth is that real programmers are actually platform agnostic. The principles are the same everywhere.

You got that right. I wanted to kick the KVM to the curb so making the Mac primary and use Remote Desktop to Windows (VNC the other way around was just too painful) made both OSes fade into the background and I just asked myself, what tool do I want to use to get the job done.

To be fair, when I was writing Java and CORBA, I was 100% Linux and mounted the company's nfs with automount and development was seamless. Also at the start of COVID, I used a $100 Dell Inspiron with Linux and used Remote Desktop and VNC (when needed) to the Mac/Windows machines inside my company. (Not mine, but you know what I mean)

[MurphCID]

Maybe, but I am seeing more and more Macs out there just as an informal poll as I spend time at coffee shops. Can you run VScode on a Mac? What do Mac coders user to write their code? VIM? EMACS? ATOM?

[The Muffin Man]

VS Code is an Electron (AKA JavaScript) app.
For the young 'uns that think this is all new, check out HTA

To answer your question, yes you can run VS Code on a Mac, tho, I use XCode and jEdit but if I could build the product I work on with NetBeans, I would.

[MurphCID]

VS Code is an Electron (AKA JavaScript) app.
For the young 'uns that think this is all new, check out HTA

To answer your question, yes you can run VS Code on a Mac, tho, I use XCode and jEdit but if I could build the product I work on with NetBeans, I would.

What is the advantage you see with Netbeans vs the others?

[The Muffin Man]

Just habit.
I started using it in 1996 when it was called Xelfi for Java development. I also was a die-hard user when most folks started using Eclipse with SWT For me it (NetBeans) set the bar pretty high on what you can do with Java. A lot of folks said that Java for the desktop was dead and unresponsive and I just pointed to NetBeans. Eclipse/SWT was to "save the day" by creating native UI controls, which I had already seen in AWT so I was unimpressed. sure C++ was arguably faster than Java (there is still debate), but it just potentially masked poor design. (ie, inadequate use of threads and events)

The thing that stuck about NetBeans was that I had talked to the developer and said:
"If you create an IDE and then create an IDE with the original, the second version is the one to use"
He said that was exactly what he did.

NetBeans will build Java, C, and C++ apps. I have used it to refactor classes (C++ and Java, pull up/down classes, etc) but since XCode and Visual Studio and make/cmake are different beasts, it (NetBeans) just sits there in the menu waiting to come out and play.

Over the years, whenever I learn a new language, I implement Cramer's rule

It's well documented and there are enough examples to know when you get the right answer. It's not about getting the right answer, rather it's about learning the mechanics of the language. However, if you don't get the right answer, then you got the algorithm wrong.

[MurphCID]

Looks like a good thing to do. Sloppy code is the bane of existence.

[MurphCID]

The reason I bring this up is I completely understand wanting a better resolution display for handling type, which of course is exactly what coders deal with every day, as well as sys admins, and the ability to not lose legibility can't be overstated.

Just out of curiosity, which generation of Mac keyboard did you like the best? The 2015 pre-butterfly was decent, and the current one on the M2 Macbook Air is pretty good as well. Of course no one can beat their screens.

[The Muffin Man]

If I'm not on my laptop, I use an Apple a1243 keyboard and a magic trackpad.

[MurphCID]

If I'm not on my laptop, I use an Apple a1243 keyboard and a magic trackpad.

I got the Spouse Unit the one without the number pad, and no touch ID (I'm cheap). The trackpad looks like an interesting device.

[The Muffin Man]

I'm still baffled by a wireless trackpad. I guess it's for folks that don't like wires on their desk.
When I run Remote Desktop on the Mac to Windows, dual head, the behavior is Xinerama, where each monitor is independent of the other, instead of moving in tandem. This is controlled by the keyboard (of course) but also with a gesture from say, a magic mouse, magic trackpad, or the built in trackpad.
This means I could be debugging client/server at the same time, without a kvm switch.