Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Chat about just about anything else
Post Reply
vlovjz
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:33 pm

Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by vlovjz »

For those of you who are using Facebook I've created a group for hackers and developers such as some of you here. Feel free to join!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wal ... 0837329077

If you feel that this is an important message, please pass the word along!
holastickboy
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:00 am
Contact:

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by holastickboy »

good on you mate! I actually finished watching "Hackers are People Too" the other day, you should watch it if you get a chance. It looks at Hackers and their way of life, and tries to distinguish real hackers from the people who do the wrong stuff!
Looking to hold a LAN Party but can't think of what games to play? Discover new games for your next LAN Party at:
http://lanpartymania.com
vlovjz
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by vlovjz »

Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into that!

Regards,

Tim
Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by Nick_Djinn »

Crackers are not all evil though (depending on how you use the term)....I mean, just because you break into a system does not mean that you are trying to do harm. Maybe you want to make a site more secure, so you expose its vulnerabilities to help out....or maybe you just want to help find the truth.


I do think some people enjoy the stigma of the term hacker....they know it has a negative stereotype, but explaining yourself to be the good guys after you shock people only adds to the fun of being a rebel or hacker. :D Absolutely nothing wrong with that either.


But yeah, hackers are not all bad people, and depending on your definition....Crackers also have their place. They dont all just go around infecting people with viruses or stealing money from poor peoples bank accounts....Crackers probably found the info that told the Weather Underground where to find the documents exposing Cointelpro...not that the Weather Underground didnt do some stupid things I disagree with....uuumm, yeah. I want to learn how to be a hacker, but I have a long ways to go.
Biker
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:58 am
Location: Where my hat is

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by Biker »

Nick_Djinn wrote:Crackers are not all evil though (depending on how you use the term)....I mean, just because you break into a system does not mean that you are trying to do harm. Maybe you want to make a site more secure, so you expose its vulnerabilities to help out....or maybe you just want to help find the truth.
So breaking the law justifies your attempt at justifying breaking into a system? I don't think so.
Linux User #384279
Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by Nick_Djinn »

Biker wrote:
Nick_Djinn wrote:Crackers are not all evil though (depending on how you use the term)....I mean, just because you break into a system does not mean that you are trying to do harm. Maybe you want to make a site more secure, so you expose its vulnerabilities to help out....or maybe you just want to help find the truth.
So breaking the law justifies your attempt at justifying breaking into a system? I don't think so.

There are plenty of examples where people are actively encouraged to hack sites to expose vulnerabilities. Its not always against the site owners will....maybe some people would still call them hackers to denote that its not illegal behavior, all done with permission, but it is still cracking code.


Breaking the law justifies nothing, unless you believe in illegalism...but breaking the law can be justified. The US legal system is not the only valid moral compass or even the most objective compass.


We have something called the freedom of information act. Sometimes there are disputes about what the people should be allowed to know or not know. Sometimes its a matter of opinion rather than a matter of fact.
Biker
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:58 am
Location: Where my hat is

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by Biker »

Perhaps you should read what the Freedom of Information Act really states. Nowhere does it state everything is available for public dissemination.

People who illegally break into systems should have the fullest extent of the law applied to them. In other words, toss them into prison. For a very long time.

And security testing at the behest of the server owner is a completely different animal, which is not what you were implying with your original post.
Linux User #384279
User avatar
curmudgeon
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 3:24 pm

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by curmudgeon »

In all reality though, legal or not... you can put up as many no-trespassing signs up as you want. Signs don't stop people, in fact a sign may encourage somebody to do exactly the opposite (don't walk on the grass.. Oh ok, *walks across grass*). The only way to curb intrusion is something like a good electric fence or razor/barbed wire. Then only the really insane will try to break in.
Image
Biker
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:58 am
Location: Where my hat is

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by Biker »

Prefer claymores and .50 cal myself. ;)
Linux User #384279
Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by Nick_Djinn »

Biker wrote:And security testing at the behest of the server owner is a completely different animal, which is not what you were implying with your original post.

Actually it was, but maybe I didnt make myself clear enough.



For the most part I feel it is highly unethical to break into somone elses computer. I feel that the examples where it can be justified are few and far between. I was not implying that freedom of information means that we are entitled to know everything about everyone. We are not. People deserve their privacy.


I do feel that there is a rare occasion where something can be both illegal and ethical. When the Weather Underground broke into the FBI offices to expose CoIntelPro, I think they did the right thing. I doubt that ever would have been exposed if they followed the law and went through the proper channels.



Alternately Crackers can be working for the government. Crackers may be hired by the government to spy on you or me, or maybe someone who they suspect of a crime. Crackers might save innocent people from a terrorist attack by bringing potential terrorists to justice, all with the blessing of an intelligence agency.




You are right though. Freedom of information does not mean you are entitled to read peoples e-mail or snoop into other peoples business. Outside of unique circumstances that should get you in a lot of trouble.




Even hackers who hack their own electronics might be breaking the law though....I mean, say you want to tether your internet connection on a Mogul Smartphone without paying for an additional tethering service? Just type in some code and the phone cant tell the difference and you get unlimited internet for your laptop and not just your smartphone....I wouldnt say its the worst thing in the world....hardly a menace to society.
Last edited by Nick_Djinn on Sat May 15, 2010 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
curmudgeon
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 3:24 pm

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by curmudgeon »

Biker wrote:Prefer claymores and .50 cal myself. ;)
Touche, I know where I'm not letting my dog poop anymore! ;)
Image
User avatar
Superewza
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:44 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England, Europe, Earth, ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, Milky Way, Universe, Multiverse

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by Superewza »

"Hacking" is simply programming. Odds are we've all done it at some point, you hack the code to your liking.
wahaneebelly
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by wahaneebelly »

Hacking can be good or evil, it all depends on how you look at it. It can be an infringement on the people's rights or it can be done for safety. wireless hacking .google that and you get tons of sites.. why are you making a big fuss about that actually google everything and you get everything you need..Google is god! I need to start a new religion..
Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by Nick_Djinn »

The difference between hacking and cracking is subjective sometimes. Is it defined by legality? Often not. Sometimes its the defined by a moral code, but there is some variation in that code.

When I download a video game or an app for a program....some stupid app that should be free but they are gouging me $30 for.....then I go to some lesser known sites similar to the Pirate Bay and download the torrent...and it says....This app was CRACKED by...I really appreciate that persons kindness and charity. They took the time to crack some stupid windows app and share it with the world.


Cracking can be good as well.


Hacking a system can also be bad, even when its not cracking.....hacking your sisters computer to upload all her webcam transmissions to a free Internet broadcast without her knowledge......not cool....Its still just programming.

Cracking can also be very bad....but I am not above cracking an app or program that I want but cant afford, but I would never go snooping around to invade someone else's privacy or steal from them.
Chasester
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:13 pm

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by Chasester »

Nick_Djinn wrote:The difference between hacking and cracking is subjective sometimes. Is it defined by legality? Often not. Sometimes its the defined by a moral code, but there is some variation in that code.
It is always very well defined. What you choose to apply to that over and above the legal boundaries is your own prerogative - or perhaps defined by your corporate internet policy.
youth is certainly wasted on the young.
FedoraRefugee
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1274
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:25 am

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by FedoraRefugee »

Nick_Djinn wrote:The difference between hacking and cracking is subjective sometimes. Is it defined by legality? Often not. Sometimes its the defined by a moral code, but there is some variation in that code.

When I download a video game or an app for a program....some stupid app that should be free but they are gouging me $30 for.....then I go to some lesser known sites similar to the Pirate Bay and download the torrent...and it says....This app was CRACKED by...I really appreciate that persons kindness and charity. They took the time to crack some stupid windows app and share it with the world.


Cracking can be good as well.


Hacking a system can also be bad, even when its not cracking.....hacking your sisters computer to upload all her webcam transmissions to a free Internet broadcast without her knowledge......not cool....Its still just programming.

Cracking can also be very bad....but I am not above cracking an app or program that I want but cant afford, but I would never go snooping around to invade someone else's privacy or steal from them.
This says a lot about your character! If it should be free but is not then DON'T USE IT! By stealing it you are only making the problem worse by not only causing the manufacturer to raise the price even more but also by forcing even more draconian laws to prevent people from stealing in the first place. You are a thief, pure and simple, even though you try to justify it with lame excuses. If you do not believe something should cost money then do not buy it. But you do not have any right to just take it! Maybe I should find where you live and rob you blind because I do not feel your goods should cost me any money!
Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by Nick_Djinn »

By stealing it you are only making the problem worse by not only causing the manufacturer to raise the price even more but also by forcing even more draconian laws to prevent people from stealing in the first place.
lol :lol:

Did you actually think this position through properly? How on earth could lowering demand raise prices? :lol:

Maybe you confusing copyright infringement with theft. They are not the same thing. Even according to US law they are not the same thing.



Then again, you do believe in Reagonomics :roll:

Maybe this will help you understand the difference.


Image
FedoraRefugee
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1274
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:25 am

Re: Hacking Is Not Cracking!

Post by FedoraRefugee »

Nick_Djinn wrote:
By stealing it you are only making the problem worse by not only causing the manufacturer to raise the price even more but also by forcing even more draconian laws to prevent people from stealing in the first place.
lol :lol:

Did you actually think this position through properly? How on earth could lowering demand raise prices? :lol:

Maybe you confusing copyright infringement with theft. They are not the same thing. Even according to US law they are not the same thing.



Then again, you do believe in Reagonomics :roll:

Maybe this will help you understand the difference.

That is a lame excuse I am talking about. It is theft! You are a thief! You are taking something for free that should be paid for. It does not matter if it is a copy or not, that is a moral stance to try and diminish the crime. If you walked into a Walmart and stole a music CD you would be prosecuted for theft. Why? Is the material CD worth $15? No, it is worth a few cents. The music on it holds the value. Yet that music is just a copy of the original tracks. Books are copies of the original, they are run through a press and put on cheap paper, yet the book holds much more value. We now have ebooks. They are valued slightly less than their paper counterparts, yet they still hold much value. You cannot reproduce these and distribute them for free no more than you can the music CD. You can call it bootlegging, piracy, or copyright infringement...Does not matter, they are all theft! You cannot hide behind words you are a thief!

Then again, you are a socialist. :roll:
Did you actually think this position through properly? How on earth could lowering demand raise prices?
That statement shows how little you understand about the market. You have to meet production costs, the more you sell the less you can price something. The cheaper you price it the more people will buy it. The more people buy the more you make. The more you make the more you can sell and the cheaper you can price it...That is why capitalism works. That is what propelled the US from nothing to the richest nation in the world in a few decades. That is where we are going wrong today. We force manufacturers overseas taking a vital part of the loop with them. If you do not MAKE anything the chain breaks. If people STEAL your product the chain also breaks. Congratulations! You are indeed ushering in a socialist era in the US! My only prayer is that YOU live long enough to truly enjoy the fruits of what YOU are creating! I have lived a long life in a FREE America, where I was able to do as I wished and keep what I earned. I am satisfied. I think maybe it is YOU who has not thought things through! :wink:
Post Reply

Return to “Open chat”