Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Chat about just about anything else
Divider
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:47 am

Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by Divider »

First read this: Because of the "bad words" and other suggestive themes of my ubuntu post. I have decided that it would be best not to try and get a ban here either...

How it all started: http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid ... 22/1635205

I expressed my views rather harshly. The Post got removed. End of story.

My problem is not with the UF mods or staff, it is with the regards to how "open source" is determined to be something other than a democracy.

This post is was never a baby's cry because his post got deleted. But as with every board it would seem, nobody can or will read the first post's.

Furthermore, my only protest with the UF mod's was that instead of correcting or modifying the post, they hauled off about 30 minutes of typing.





Anything below here is my original post, keeping it for people reading responses.
So I made a post on Ubuntu forums as a savvy Ubuntu usr, I found something I strongly disliked posted my opinion and my response got "moved" to "the jail." An area for "offensive and spam posts".

I protested the way they stated "Open source is not a democracy" sounded like a 9 on the **** scale.

2 things concern me greatly about this.

1. Torvalds himself stated "Gnome looks like it was developed by software ****'s." The grandfather of our kernel uses the term to voice an outstanding opinion of complication, and it was taken as that... AN OPINION.

2. If it truly offended someone, which since my roommate, whom is Jewish, backs me on this as a UBUNTU user herself, I apologize, and to be honest, in her opinion and mine, it sounds like they are trying to cover up opinions blatantly stating obvious flaws in the hierarchy of developers and staff.

So my question to the linux mint usr's. How do you take this? Do you think it's fair?
Last edited by Divider on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MALsPa
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2040
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:17 pm
Location: albuquerque

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by MALsPa »

Divider wrote:How do you take this? Do you think it's fair?
Depends on what exactly you said, I guess.
waldo
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:55 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by waldo »

Okay, they may be a little over sensitive, but there has been a rather universal misunderstanding of the concept of "freedom of speech". There has always been a limit commonly expressed by "you can't falsely yell 'Fire!' in a movie theater."

Another limit may well be imposed by the owners of the media you wish to use for your expression. They cannot stop you from saying something, but they do not have to allow you to do it on their dime. I could not, for example, write a letter to my local paper and call the mayor a f****g bastard and expect it to be published. The technology of newsprint allows for pre-censoring, but most internet forums settle for post censoring, as it would be too complicated to do otherwise.

Comparing anything to a **** has a special problem. It is commonly viewed by many people as the ultimate evil, so much so that nothing could possibly be worse, and nothing should be compared to it. This forum is not the place to open a discussion of this viewpoint, so please, let's not. My suggestion is to just choose different words to describe your displeasure.
User avatar
markcynt
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1115
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Lakeland Florida

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by markcynt »

Divider wrote: How do you take this? Do you think it's fair?
How can anyone give an opinion without knowing what you said? :shock:
Image
P5N-E SLI, Core2Duo E6850 3GHZ X 2
2 GB DDR2 800MHZ
EVGA 8800GTS 320MB
2x320GB Hitachi
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
tinca
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 586
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:23 am
Location: England U.K.

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by tinca »

Divider,

you state that "you are a savvy Ubuntu user"?. If that was the case then you should have been able to choose words to exress yourself without upsetting people.

Secondly, why are you posting this at all on a Mint forum, your complaint should solely be addressed on the Ubuntu forums, and look for guidance there.

Best regards Keith
User avatar
markfiend
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:56 pm
Location: Leeds, UK

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by markfiend »

I am a passionate defender of free speech, but that means you have the right to say what you want without the government punishing you for it. It doesn't mean you have a right to say whatever you want on a privately-owned web-site.
Omnia mutantur, nihil interit.
vincent
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2217
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:10 am

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by vincent »

markcynt wrote:
Divider wrote: How do you take this? Do you think it's fair?
How can anyone give an opinion without knowing what you said? :shock:
I'm thinking the same here. A link to that thread in the Ubuntu forums would be helpful.
Debian Testing x64/LM9 Main x64/Windows 7 x64 - LG R580 laptop w/ Intel Core 2 Duo T6500 2.1 GHz, 4 GB DDR2 RAM, Nvidia Geforce G 105M, Ralink rt2860 802.11n, 300 GB WD HD 5400 rpm
User avatar
Pilosopong Tasyo
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1435
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:26 am
Location: Philippines

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by Pilosopong Tasyo »

I took a quick look at the Ubuntu forum about this jail feature they have. It looks like the jail has been off-limits to casual reading and is only accessible by their staff and the person whose post was jailed. I guess the ball is now in the OP's court whether he/she wants to repost here whatever was jailed there.
o Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime!
o If an issue has been fixed, please edit your first post and add the word [SOLVED].
Robin

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by Robin »

Free speech doesn't mean "I can say whatever I want to whomever I want using any forum I wish any time and place I wish." Ubuntu Forums is owned by somebody who puts out big bucks for the domain name, the bandwidth, all that storage space, etc. It's his money and he (or she) has the right to determine how the stuff he is paying for is used.

I have a blog. I write about Linux, dance, and Christian theology (fascinating stuff to me, bores the heck out of my friends and family). I am passionate about those things. When someone leaves a comment critical of my beliefs, I usually allow criticism and offer a response or rebuttal. But I reserve the right to remove comments that aren't useful or constructive. But mockery, scoffing, insults, attempts to promote what I would consider to be false religion, and the lunatic rantings of OS-fanboys are ordinarily deleted. Why? Because it's my blog. I determine it's purpose, I use it to promote and advance my ideas, my beliefs, my opinion. I also have learned a lot from others who comment, and I follow several other blogs. Free speech doesn't mean I have no right to moderate comments on my own blog. It's called "Robins Rants & Raves" for a reason!

UF has the same right. And in my opinion they allow plenty of criticism of their OS. I have had two infractions on their forums and both times I was censured. I disagreed with their reasons; I thought it was "political correctness" carried too far, I felt that the moderators were over-reacting. But I never disputed their right to censure any post by any user for any reason! It's their board! My "right" of free speech doesn't entitle me to use their board and their bandwidth and their resources to advance ideas that they oppose.

Get your own blog and rant away. Try linsux.org. It's made just for crybabies who need a place to whine about "censorship" when they don't get their way on other Linux forums. Ubuntu Forums are their favorite target, and they have multiple threads dedicated exclusively to seeking out and ridiculing Ubuntu, it's developers, it's users, it's forum, and moderators. That's all they do. Not a single constructive comment to be found there. Sounds like your kind of place, OP.

Free but responsible,
Robin
Divider
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:47 am

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by Divider »

tinca wrote:Divider,

you state that "you are a savvy Ubuntu user"?. If that was the case then you should have been able to choose words to exress yourself without upsetting people.

Secondly, why are you posting this at all on a Mint forum, your complaint should solely be addressed on the Ubuntu forums, and look for guidance there.

Best regards Keith

Keith. Knowing an operating system does not state that I am the following.

1. A person bent on "edict".
2. A dictionary.
3. Someone whom is considerate when "open source" become's a form of communism.

Two answer your second question. What would be the point, if they censored what I have already placed on there forum, why would I bother going back and reposting the same thing?
Divider
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:47 am

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by Divider »

Robin wrote:Free speech doesn't mean "I can say whatever I want to whomever I want using any forum I wish any time and place I wish." Ubuntu Forums is owned by somebody who puts out big bucks for the domain name, the bandwidth, all that storage space, etc. It's his money and he (or she) has the right to determine how the stuff he is paying for is used.
Robin, I'm going to stop you at the beginning of your response. You stated they put out BIG BUCKS for a domain name. Here are the flaws with the first statement.

1. Ubuntu wasn't always so big, so the domain was worthless in the beginning.
2. Since Canonical ltd. owned it from the beginning, they didn't purchase the domain for "big bucks".

I understand your view on the bandwidth and storage end. And your correct in stating the owners should have control. But at the same time, if I was DEAD wrong, instead of removing the post, they could have given me my "Would-be Proof" or a response depicting all of the flaws with my statement.
User avatar
Hammerlee
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:14 am
Location: Southampton, Hampshire U.K

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by Hammerlee »

Divider, we are still all completely in the dark as to what you said that was found to be so outrageous :?
waldo
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:55 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by waldo »

Hammerlee wrote:Divider, we are still all completely in the dark as to what you said that was found to be so outrageous :?
Apparently he likened their "Open source is not a democracy" view to ****. As I stated in my post above, it's best not to express ones displeasure in those terms.

Some people have elevated a simple license to use and modify software into a religious or political belief system. The Ubuntu staff is correct, It is NOT a democracy or any other political structure. It is software development.

And Robin, you are correct. Mark Shuttleworth has BIG BUCKS invested in Ubuntu (rumored at million$). He and his team are completely within their right to control how their property is used. I, and I'm sure most of the rest of us, understood that you were using "domain name" in the broader sense of the entire Ubuntu organization.
User avatar
eiver
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:51 am

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by eiver »

As we all know there is no such thing as an ultimate freedom. Your freedom basically ends where another persons freedom begins.
So:
You are free to post whatever you want on the forum.
Any person is free to feel offended by this, to like this or to ignore this.
Forum admins are free to jail your posts or even ban you.
You are free to go to another forum or even start hosting your own (where you are the head admin).
You are also free to talk to other people to settle things, so you become good friends.

Thats quite a lot of freedom don't you think? :D
remoulder
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7624
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 1:14 pm

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by remoulder »

From the ubuntu forums code of conduct policy: http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy
By registering and participating in Ubuntu Forums discussions you agree to the following code of conduct. If you are unable to agree you have the right not to participate in forum discussions at any time.

This is YOUR community. Most people have a common sense feel for what is and what is not appropriate in our forums and you folks generally do a great job of policing yourselves. We do, however, need to have a few set policies for everyone to refer to when the need arises.

While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible where acceptable, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or web-master (except for posts by these people) and they will not be held liable.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated material or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing any of these may lead to you being temporarily or permanently banned from these forums (and your service provider may also be informed).

Posts which violate any part of this Code of Conduct may be edited or moved to a special holding area called "The Jail." Posts in The Jail are only visible to staff members and the original poster.
So basically the OP has agreed to the above by creating an ubuntu forum account, but disagrees that his post breaches it! The policy goes on to explain what constitutes a breach, so perhaps maybe the OP should read it and examine his post in that light rather than ranting about it here?
[Edit] your original post and add [SOLVED] once your question is resolved.

“The people are my God” stressing the factor determining man’s destiny lies within man not in anything outside man, and thereby defining man as the dominator and remoulder of the world.
User avatar
Aging Technogeek
Level 13
Level 13
Posts: 4578
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:54 am
Location: Right about here

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by Aging Technogeek »

This forum is not the place to criticize the Ubuntu forum admins and moderators. This OP is apparently looking for people to agree with his view of this situation without explaining why the Ubuntu mods jailed his post. He has been asked repeatedly to detail his grievance and has ignored all requests.

If you have a difference of opinion with the Administration and moderators of another forum, please take it up with them and do not take up space in this forum trying to drum up support through inflammatory language and evasions.

If you wish to continue this discussion, please remain civil and relatively polite. Any violation of the rules of decorum will result in the topic being locked (or deleted if it gets bad enough).

Aging Technogeek
Mint Forum Moderator
Registered Linux User 483387
FedoraRefugee
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1274
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:25 am

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by FedoraRefugee »

The simple answer has already been given several times. It is a private site and they make the rules. If you do not like it then do not participate in it. :D

I have left more than one forum for the same reasons, but before you start a vendetta maybe you should try seeing what THEIR shoes feel like? The Ubuntu forum is a jungle full of people with all kinds of motives. Some are looking for help, some want to spam, others are just trolling to see what kind of flame war they can start. It is usually best to just accept perceived abuse and overlook it. Step on my toes one time and I will accept it is just a misunderstanding, no harm done. Do it twice and I am going to start taking notice. Three times and I am done. If you do not like the rules do not play their game. Really, it is that simple. :D

I have found this forum to be very tolerant and understanding. It is a nice place. Make yourself at home, forget the Ubuntu forum. :D
User avatar
mick55
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:47 am

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by mick55 »

FedoraRefugee wrote:I have found this forum to be very tolerant and understanding. It is a nice place. Make yourself at home, forget the Ubuntu forum. :D
Very sage advice indeed.

Well said FedoraRefugee.
Things are more like they are now than they ever were before.

Dwight D. Eisenhower (1890 - 1969)
User avatar
Pilosopong Tasyo
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1435
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:26 am
Location: Philippines

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by Pilosopong Tasyo »

Divider wrote:...why would I bother going back and reposting the same thing?
Because you only posted half the story. As far as I see it, all you did was rant on how Ubuntu jailed your post about some opinion you expressed there. And since you disliked how their admins jailed your post you decided to vent your anger and frustration here. We can't just BLINDLY agree or cite contempt against another forum just because you said they were this and that WITHOUT even knowing what you posted there in the first place.

Just like what the others posted before me:
MALsPa wrote:
Divider wrote:How do you take this? Do you think it's fair?
Depends on what exactly you said, I guess.
Hammerlee wrote:Divider, we are still all completely in the dark as to what you said that was found to be so outrageous :?
vincent wrote:
markcynt wrote:
Divider wrote: How do you take this? Do you think it's fair?
How can anyone give an opinion without knowing what you said? :shock:
I'm thinking the same here. A link to that thread in the Ubuntu forums would be helpful.
Kindly justify your opinion or troll somewhere else. Thank you.
o Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime!
o If an issue has been fixed, please edit your first post and add the word [SOLVED].
User avatar
eiver
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:51 am

Re: Wow. Ubuntu Censoring people's freedom?

Post by eiver »

Divider wrote:I protested the way they stated "Open source is not a democracy" sounded like a 9 on the **** scale.
I stumbled upon this :P:
Godwin's law
Locked

Return to “Open chat”