Page 1 of 1

Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOME 3

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:19 pm
by linuxviolin
I just copy here a web post about this stupid move in GNOME 3:
GNOME thinks its users are dumber than the users of Windows…


Traditionally, the developers of open-source operating systems such as Linux and the developers of open-source desktop environments (including GNOME) used to considered that their users were smarter than the users of Microsoft Windows.

This is why most Linux distros were traditionally difficult to configure to match users’ needs or to support specific hardware. Linux was simply “not for morons”.

This is why many desktop environments (especially the “lighter” ones) were also clumsier than a traditional Windows user would have expected them to be. One more time, Linux (or BSD) was “not for dumb people”.

Now, GNOME3 is specifically targeting stupid people.
GNOME3 is targeting users who don’t need a Minimize button.
GNOME3 is targeting users who don’t need a Maximize button.
GNOME3 is targeting users who “are uncomfortable with a desktop where the window the are working with is overlapping other windows”.
GNOME3 is targeting users who think that “There is no real mental model for what happens when hiding.” and that “Minimized windows break the illusion of zooming to the overview.”
GNOME3 is targeting users who consider that “Having minimize and maximize controls puts stress on the concept of the centered title - the titlebar looks unbalanced.”

In brief, GNOME3 is for idiots. Knowing that GNOME3 is this way, and that KDE4 is one thousand times uglier and more unpractical than Windows 7, take an educated guess on the future of “Linux on the desktop”.

Bibliography:

Owen Taylor: Window controls for GNOME 3
Allan Day: Where did the buttons go?
Susan Linton: Why Did They Take My GNOME Buttons Away?
The tone can be a bit provocative, but nonetheless he is right. :( :evil:

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:24 am
by kvv
Yes, he is provocative and he is posting quotes from out of contexts, which makes me think he is just a flamebait.

People are highly averse to big changes like this, as they have to change their usage habits. Let's just see how it goes.

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:52 am
by linuxviolin
kvv wrote:Yes, he is provocative
OK.
kvv wrote:he is posting quotes from out of contexts
The quotes are good and their sense is good.
kvv wrote:he is just a flamebait.
:mrgreen: I don't think so... :roll:
kvv wrote:People are highly averse to big changes like this, as they have to change their usage habits. Let's just see how it goes.
Because to you it's a good thing? You applaud this move? You're happy with that? I'm sorry to strongly disagree.

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:12 am
by tdockery97
Apparently the Gnome devs have decided that the tens of thousands of Gnome users will just have to adjust to what the devs consider more aesthetically pleasing. To their eyes, of course. It would seem that the prominence of the window title is more important than simple functionality.

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:00 pm
by altair4
Everyone seems to be rushing to create a user interface for the tablet. Gnome3 and Unity seem more suited to a tablet than a PC. That's fine and they may ultimately prove to be right but there needs to be two models for the user interface:

Content Use: Gnome3 and Unity may be the best for that.

Content Creation: An actual Desktop Environment.

For those who do content creation ( and I'm extending that metaphor to include things like -- you know -- work :wink: ):
Help us, Obi-Wan XFCE; you're our only hope

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:30 pm
by kvv
linuxviolin wrote: [/list]Because to you it's a good thing? You applaud this move? You're happy with that? I'm sorry to strongly disagree.
No, not particularly. I like my desktop to be cluttered with various windows, and easy switching between them. I normally put entertainment related stuff on one virtual desktop and work on another. I feel that this more of a regression of functionality, as it provides nothing but better looks. Thank God that mint is not forcing this on us yet.

But, he did make quotes out of contexts, in the sense that some of those quotes were from a post whose author was against the change. Anyways, Gnome3 is in a beta phase, if it really needs better window switching they will probably do something. Else only Fedora will end up using gnome shell. :P

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:44 am
by nukm
Gnome is true to character. Read the complaint history. This is nothing new. If Linus called Gnome devs "ui ****" in 2005, perhaps he had a clue? :lol:

Just take a large slug of Mono and go back to work. Don't worry about the Zimians. Why are you using Gnome anyway? Did Novell geld SuSE? Did Novell take MS cash_for_a_lie? :lol:

It is always amusing when the OS of less than 1% of internet traffic volk get their knickers in a bind. They worry about "button" placement or removal. In lieu of a prudent concern for FOSS.

They also miss the connection of Windows=GUI, supposing that Linux windows be gooder. :mrgreen: It ain't the windows that be gooder, it be the FOSS. :shock:

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:27 am
by det4100
I agree with altair4 in that there seems to be a rush to adopt this "tablet" "IPAD" "kindle" paradigm in the desktop. Maybe it's time for Gnome to fork itself. Two separate desktops. I do not foresee myself working in an office full of tablets. I don't think the desktop or the laptop computer is going to go away in the near future. I think that many people still want and need things like taskbars and buttons. I know I do. I've tried other desktops but I seem to keep coming back to Mint's version of the Gnome desktop. It seems more functional to me. This isn't about fearing change. If I feared change, I would still be using windows.

But, if Gnome is going to adopt this for their future releases of the desktop, then someone will fill the void or some other desktop environment already out there will just get more popular, like XFCE or KDE.

Some folks are adamant about certain projects or their own projects stay true to the FOSS way of doing things, and that's fine. However, I'm the end user, and I don't care if it's open, closed, shareware, proprietary, pay as you go, whatever... as long as it works. This isn't my fight. If I really need it, and I have to buy it, then so be it. If it's too expensive, then I'm sure someone will come along and bring some competition to the table to lower prices. If not, then either do without or build a better one myself.

Just my opinion.

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:07 am
by Paedomorphosis
I'm very pleased with Gnome 3/Shell overall. Lack of configurability is a major drawback, but hopefully that will improve over time. You can in fact put the minimize and maximize buttons back if you want to. True it's tricky to figure out how...I think you can do it with the "advanced settings tweak" tool. You can't yet use that to change the change the window decorator theme with that, unfortunately...I had to poke around blindly in gconf to do that.

I did put the extra buttons back, but then later got rid of them. They're visually distracting, and completely pointless. In Gnome Shell, they're superfluous--you really don't need them at all. Why do you need to "minimize" a window? So you can see another window that's behind it. In Gnome Shell, just move the cursor to the top-left corner--you don't even have to click--or press a SINGLE key--just the Win key, not Win+Space or Alt+Space or anything. (I really that aspect of it--the usefulness of the activities panel or whatever they call it, and the unsurpassable ease of accessing it.) Then click on the window you want. You can see clearly all the open windows in thumnails--easy targets to click on, as opposed to a small, narrow strip at the bottom of the screen full of tiny icons and bits of strings of text too short to tell you anything meaningful.

The only reason to have a minimize button is that it's very hard to find what you're looking for in a cluttered taskbar--in other words, poor design.

If you want to maximize/restore a window, just double-click on the title-bar. Which IMO is easier, since it's much bigger than than the maximize/restore button was. Either way, being able to max/restore by both double-clicking and by using the button is pointless redundancy. If you're going to have the button, you might as well have it do something different and useful, or have double-clicking the title-bar do something different and useful.

It comes down to personal taste, I guess. If you don't like it, don't use it--and tell everyone why you don't like it. It's what I'd probably do. :D

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:23 pm
by OldManHook
Why not use it for awhile-Sort of nice in a :) simple way sudo Apple fans and Windows users will like it.
I am trying it now,It runs and looks good on a 23" Mon. 8)
Just like Linux Distros I think many of the writers have not used it or don't understand or know what they are doing :(
Remember KDE 4 :?:
As for the buttons you can add them :idea: Gnome Tweak Tool is already out (webud8.org) works too 8)
This is one of the unsaid problems with Linux- Saying you wants something different from Windows but get bent all out of shape when something different come out (same thing with Unity)
As i see it we are going to have Gnome Shell or Unity trying both now right now Gnome 3 is the hands down Winner :D

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:02 pm
by specmod1
gnome 3 is a joke and a pile of shit.

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:53 am
by AlbertP
Gnome 3 is not that bad, it's Gnome Shell which is enabled by default. But if Gnome 3 is heading away from the desktop we prefer, why not use Xfce with Gnome apps? Isn't that a good compromise? Gnome apps in KDE / KWin look ugly but what I've heard about Xfce is that it does not have any problem with GTK.

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 3:17 pm
by RedLeg
I somewhat agree with this article about the approach to useability and style many DEs are taking these days are clunky and hard to work around, I also think that tech development in general comes in series of plateaus and spikes and during the spikes there are always some growing pains as people get used to new technology (I can remember my grandmother retelling a heated and very principled debate with my grandfather about whether or not to have a toilet installed, to which my grandfather initially refused).

I don't like a lot about most of the new DEs, especially GNOME 3, Unity, and KDE 4.x, but mainly because they are losing sight of the importance of an ease of customization and really bottle-necking the end user into a particular computing ideal (even Xfce 4.8 is not so easy to customize anymore). But in the end, things are dramatically changing with the proliferation of touch screen tablet devices and there is going to have to be some characteristics shared between desktops and this new breed of computer to bring a certain homogeneity for new users, not unlike standardizing socket wrench sizes for all tools and hardware.

Anyway, off to the beer store.....

Re: Minimise and maximise buttons recently removed from GNOM

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:16 pm
by sahilshinesalways
Its all abut innovation...u like it :use it|if u dont like:plz dont complain but show ur vision
why people dontunderstand this simple line and starts flaming always