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Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:13 am
by linuxviolin
Found on the web:
Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century


It had to be about Unity, but this time it’s bigger: Ayatana overlay scrollbars: something truly Natty.

Here's a video:

http://player.vimeo.com/video/20570173

At first sight, it looks like a clever thing, although… for fu**’s sake, why should they redesign each and every detail, and make everything confusing? Many people find more reassuring to have the essential UI elements (menus, buttons, scrollbars) constantly visible, fixed, not automatically hiding away and dynamically popping up!

Here’s a better video:

http://player.vimeo.com/video/20523493

Now you should have noticed that Mark Shuttleworth was not kidding when he also said:
We also decided to drop the “one line scroll” capability, while preserving the ability to page up and down.
Indeed. With the classical scrollbar everyone knows from no matter which OS and no matter what desktop environment, clicking the up and down arrows from the extremities of a scrollbar would lead to a “one line scroll”. Now that you can only drag that thing that appears from nothing, clicking the up and down arrows from that thing only leads to a page scroll!

You’re probably asking too much if you want to scroll by a line, right? “Progress” actually means “lack of usability” in the 21st century!

Mark Shuttleworth is, along with Steve Jobs, one of the most prominent idiots of the 21st century. When radical and disruptive changes are confusing the users, guess whose sales are going to boost?

Yeah, those of Steve Ballmer. The expensive Windows sells because it looks and feels familiar to most people. And it’s kind of usable too.
Again a little provocative but again he's right.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:21 am
by tdockery97
That has got to be the most STUPID thing I have ever seen (and that's saying a lot since I'm 62). Change just for the sake of change is NEVER a good thing.

Ahhh. I feel much better now. :D Better get ready for the huge influx of ex-Ubuntu users.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:23 am
by bitmason
Wow... it wasn't until I read this post that I realized that I use the wheel on my mouse / spacebar / pageup / pagedn almost exclusively - I will drag the scrollbar when I want to "zero in" on a certain item.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:11 am
by monkeyboy
How much is that idiot worth? :)

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:51 am
by kvv
I think it is quite unfair to call Mark Shuttleworth an idiot. He is the main reason, I and ten thousands others are using Linux.
bitmason wrote:Wow... it wasn't until I read this post that I realized that I use the wheel on my mouse / spacebar / pageup / pagedn almost exclusively - I will drag the scrollbar when I want to "zero in" on a certain item.
This. I thought that most people did the same thing. As for one line scrolling, I use the arrow keys, but maybe that's just me. I don't mind this change, won't affect me in any way.

Meh.. all these changes, they are good for touch devices, for desktops not so much.
...change for change's sake...
I don't think so. I think they (gnome and ubuntu) want to at least create a ripple in the touchpad market. And more importantly, it's quite likely that home desktops are going to be replaced by surfaces 5 - 7 years from now. They will be ready when that happens.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:11 am
by bitmason
another wow... I thought windows is so popular because it is already installed on almost every new computer, not because the average customer (95%) sits down and says to themselves, "well, I like this computer... lots of good hardware bundled up in an affordable package... now which operating system do I want pre-installed? how about the one with the exact same gui, but a little jazzed up with updated graphics." - people actually don't even think about the extra cost of Windows when shopping for a computer, let alone its user interface.

on a side note:

I work for a small computer repair/sales shop in rural Arizona - I've tried to sell Ubuntu Boxes. It didn't work so well - People will pay $100 more for the same hardware, but with Win installed instead. "if I get an infection or something, I'll just bring it back to you, and you can fix it." what they don't realize at that point in time is that they will pay for that service, and that all additional software, and some of their personal data will be lost. They are willing to sacrifice true usability over change any day. It's frustrating to see such attitudes on a daily basis, but they are paying customers, and they are always "right".

I'm just sayin'.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:27 am
by MALsPa
Both Shuttleworth and Jobs seem to be quite successful, then you've got these "experts" sitting at home calling them "idiots." Quite humorous.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:38 am
by hemimaniac
MALsPa wrote:Both Shuttleworth and Jobs seem to be quite successful, then you've got these "experts" sitting at home calling them "idiots." Quite humorous.
Yes and furthermore after reading the previous posts, one is lead to believe that these two never had a bad idea before now.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:01 pm
by Robin
Mister Shuttleworth has done more to bring Linux to "ordinary users" like me than just about anyone. He "tamed" Debian for us technically challenged folks and gave it away. He's the reason alot of people now enjoy Debian's awesomeness when it was out of reach for us before. And there'd be no Linux Mint without Mark Shuttleworth's work. You should be thaking him instead of chiding for not packaging his free product according to your personal preferences.

Grateful to Debian and to Mark Shuttleworth for making Debian usable even by silly kids like me,
Robin

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:54 pm
by Habitual
Robin:

Your precociousness is very refreshing.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:57 pm
by Fandangio
Robin wrote:Mister Shuttleworth has done more to bring Linux to "ordinary users" like me than just about anyone. He "tamed" Debian for us technically challenged folks and gave it away. He's the reason alot of people now enjoy Debian's awesomeness when it was out of reach for us before. And there'd be no Linux Mint without Mark Shuttleworth's work. You should be thaking him instead of chiding for not packaging his free product according to your personal preferences.

Grateful to Debian and to Mark Shuttleworth for making Debian usable even by silly kids like me,
Robin
Very well said.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:11 pm
by MALsPa
Robin wrote:You should be thaking him instead of chiding for not packaging his free product according to your personal preferences.
Walk-off home run.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:46 pm
by DrHu
I don't want to see a youtube video, but if there was a web page where he described the problem, his blog maybe, then I might look.
  • --->edit: I mixed him up with that Linspire/freespire CEO: Kevin Carmony, and CNR
Mark Shuttleworth has done been doing good with his creation of Ubuntu, even if his development team(s) seem to want to go their own way, and even if they seem to think that their way is the right way..
  • He has a viewpoint, just as anyone will..
I only think that any worrying about Linux vis-a-vis windows is a complete waste of everyone's time and effort
  • Linux and the various distributions should just progress the Linux desktop experience no matter what sizzle Microsoft or Apple intend to bring to the table: they will be the better for it
    --as they can't expect to unseat the Emperor and his consort in any reasonable lifetime..
Linux and its developers have enough experience and design sense to make an impact
  • No need to even look at Microsoft and Apple, except for some design ideas, and use them if they think it fits into the Linux mold..

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:48 pm
by TBABill
I'd say he's just the opposite of the quote at the beginning. Imagine being in his shoes before Ubuntu existed. You look at a Debian install from a new user perspective without ever having an easy install like in Ubuntu, Mint, PCLinuxOS and others. Decide to go for it and hit the first roadblock...partitioning. What? How? Then you hit the forums looking for help. Then get referred to the Debian Wiki, which is great, but you're new and it's still intimidating because it does assume you at least understand something of Linux. But you persevere.

Next, you get to the desktop. Wow, those are some ugly fonts. How do I fix that? Back to the forum and the wiki. Patched libcairo what?? How? Ok, skip that one...looks Greek and a new user wouldn't get it easily.

Then you decide to connect to the net. What? Proprietary device? What's that? Where's the driver? Can't I just connect like in Windows? Back to the wiki. Terminal. "m-a a-i"?? Headers? What's firmware? What's a non-free repository? /etc/sources.list? What's that? Where do I click to do that?

Mark Shuttleworth took a great system and used a team to break it down to basics for new users. They fixed the fonts, made proprietary drivers pretty easy (yes, arguable because it often still doesn't work, but usually does) and made adding Flash, Java and all the codecs simple. Not only that, change from Gnome to KDE in Debian and then open the default browser? Ugly? Yep. Add Kubuntu-desktop...still ugly? Nope.

The list goes on and on, but the fact is that the guy decided to do tons of work and provide it to anyone who wants it...for free. It's a gift. Yes, his company makes tons of money...who cares? The user gets a free system to use as they like and that system is aimed to be easier than Debian for a new user. Anyone with a bit of experience can get Debian up and running just like they can Ubuntu, but that's not the point. The brand new user will find a friendlier forum overall and easier installation of the OS and drivers. And a desktop that is easy on the eyes.

Sorry to go on and on, but the guy did what I could never do because he has the financial backing of his company and personal net worth to support his goal. He gives back to the entire world. Request a CD for yourself and see. Who else has done that? Most Linux distros are free and even Clem and team have profited, even if just to the degree to create and maintain the distro, because of the efforts of Shuttleworth and team. And all that work rides on the giant shoulders of Debian, which is where the core of the system comes from. Shuttleworth just made it something the common, ordinary, non-techno computer user can use mostly out of the box. And Mint sweetened it even further to what we use now!

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:51 pm
by colyn
Robin wrote:Mister Shuttleworth has done more to bring Linux to "ordinary users" like me than just about anyone. He "tamed" Debian for us technically challenged folks and gave it away. He's the reason alot of people now enjoy Debian's awesomeness when it was out of reach for us before. And there'd be no Linux Mint without Mark Shuttleworth's work. You should be thaking him instead of chiding for not packaging his free product according to your personal preferences.

Grateful to Debian and to Mark Shuttleworth for making Debian usable even by silly kids like me,
Robin
AMEN and AMEN.....

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:24 pm
by Rifester
Nice to see you again Robin!

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:43 pm
by Habitual
TBABill wrote:you get to the desktop. Wow, those are some ugly fonts. How do I fix that? Back to the forum and the wiki. Patched libcairo what?? How? Ok, skip that one...looks Greek and a new user wouldn't get it easily.
You had a desktop? I am jealous. :?
Several 8 hour days just getting the system up to snuff. Usable even.
And if you didn't have a 3C509 or US Robotics Sportster modem, you were screwed.
Download everything and compile from source? I am glad those dark early days are behind us.

Yes, I'd say that Ubuntu liberated the Desktop Environment and enabled another Generation (just like that 'other' guy with that 'other' OS)

Thank you Mark Shuttleworth for all your hard work and vision.
I vote for Mintification of OpenSUSE next. Hey Green on Green!!
Maybe it'll catch on in Ireland too?

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:19 am
by Pierre
Yes, I'd say that Ubuntu liberated the Desktop Environment and enabled another Generation
+1

BOO to that OTHER O/S :evil:

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:25 am
by linuxviolin
kvv wrote:He is the main reason, I and ten thousands others are using Linux.
Not me. One of my first reasons was just... my wallet. And curiosity. :roll: :mrgreen: And was it really such a good thing to have brought so many "users", perhaps many unwanted, and to want always more? Is not that just part of what led us into the (sorry) state where we are today, I mean the Linux desktop? :roll:
kvv wrote:I think they (gnome and ubuntu) want to at least create a ripple in the touchpad market. And more importantly, it's quite likely that home desktops are going to be replaced by surfaces 5 - 7 years from now. They will be ready when that happens.
We are currently in a sorry state but "when that happens", or if that happens, we'll probably be in the down-hole... although it will be probably still possible to do worse, without doubt. :(

Robin, your post was quite pretty, cute, and... innocent/candid. :wink:

For people, there is no question here of what Mark Shuttleworth has done in the past or if he was right or not to create Ubuntu etc. but what happens today, choices and directions followed today... e.g. The two first Ubuntu version were promising. I, for instance, had no problem with them, I was relatively happy. Now, currently, it's another story... :roll:

Btw, if Ubuntu didn't exist, well, Clem and other would have based their distro on another one, and what? Clem would has used Debian, or another, directly and he would has built Mint like now, with maybe just a little more work... :roll:

Re: Mark Shuttleworth, the idiot of the century

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:29 pm
by bitmason
linuxviolin wrote:And was it really such a good thing to have brought so many "users", perhaps many unwanted, and to want always more?
Answer: Yes - the more users involved, the more bugs and errors pop up. the more bugs and errors pop up, the more reports are generated and sent. The more reports are sent, the quicker developers can sort out these issues.

I use Linux for the exacty same reason - $5.00 for a pack of DVDs is much better than $120 for an OS - anybody will agree with that. The only problem with linux is that it presents the challenge of learning something new - and nothing more.

Comparing the development of the Linux desktop to the development of other operating systems is like comparing apples to carrots - They are two very different things. Linux is Much more than the desktop.