The Mint Café

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Lady Fitzgerald
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Re: The Mint Café

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

coffee412 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:23 am
...My Father always told me "You can do anything you want to do. You just have to want to bad enough"...
I've always hated that statement because it is often simply not true! Not everyone has the ability to become a star athlete no matter how hard they try simply because of genetics limiting their bodies' capabilities. Not everyone has the aptitude to become a surgeon. Telling a Down's Syndrome child s/he can become, say, a theoretical physicist would not only be wrong, it would be cruel. People have varying abilities and varying disabilities and trying to paint them all with the you-can-do-anything-as-long-as-you-try-hard-enough brush is just wrong! True, some people have achieved remarkable things despite various obstacles in their paths but that does not mean everyone can.
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Re: The Mint Café

Post by lsemmens »

So! Who's up for a beer?
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Re: The Mint Café

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

lsemmens wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:33 pm
So! Who's up for a beer?
I don't drink. How about a Caffeine Free Diet Coke (that's what I'm nursing right now)? :wink:
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Re: The Mint Café

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My commiserations. ;)

I'm blessed in that I have no "need" to indulge in "health foods". That said, I prefer Pepsi Max over Choke or the Pepsi equivalent. However, if that's your favourite poison, I'll not argue. :D
Telling a Down's Syndrome child s/he can become, say, a theoretical physicist would not only be wrong, it would be cruel.
There, you may be incorrect. Just because they have some impairment does not mean that they cannot be successful A theoretical physics degree may not necessarily be possible for many, just as many could not become renown actors, yet, there are numerous actors who suffer from that condition.
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Re: The Mint Café

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Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:32 pm
coffee412 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:23 am
...My Father always told me "You can do anything you want to do. You just have to want to bad enough"...
I've always hated that statement because it is often simply not true! Not everyone has the ability to become a star athlete no matter how hard they try simply because of genetics limiting their bodies' capabilities. Not everyone has the aptitude to become a surgeon. Telling a Down's Syndrome child s/he can become, say, a theoretical physicist would not only be wrong, it would be cruel. People have varying abilities and varying disabilities and trying to paint them all with the you-can-do-anything-as-long-as-you-try-hard-enough brush is just wrong! True, some people have achieved remarkable things despite various obstacles in their paths but that does not mean everyone can.
Everybody has within them the ability to obtain a worthy goal. A worthy goal is defined here as achieving a certain level within the boundaries of your physical or mental abilities. If your goal is to become a star athlete but you do not possess the physical abilities because of some handicap then that is outside your boundaries. It is not a worthy goal. The saying "You can do anything you want in life, You just have to want it bad enough", Explains that most people want to achieve a goal with as minimal of effort as possible. That is not possible. You have to expend the necessary and needed effort to obtain that goal. You have to work on this goal every day and every minute of your life until you eventually reach it. No worthy goal is achieved thru minimal effort either physical or mental. You must be prepared to do what it takes to reach that goal.

In life you will meet many different people. Of these people there are those that have tried for the same goal that you have set. They failed at that goal and then spend their time telling you that its not possible. Should they succeed to keep you from obtaining your goal then they validate their own failing and thus protect their own ego. You will see these people in every walk of life. Should you succeed then it forces them to look to reevaluate themselves. This is the reason that those out there exist to want you to fail. It preserves their fragile ego. Identify them and stay way from them. These people are in every walk of life with the reoccurring theme of "Your wasting your time. You cannot do this on your own. Your just going to fail".

If you set a worthy goal, Whether it be obtaining wealth, Happiness or just meeting your day to day commitments then the biggest obstacle you are going to have is yourself. You must be willing to put forth the effort necessary to obtain those goals.

Therefore, "You can do anything that you want to do. You just have to want it bad enough".
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Re: The Mint Café

Post by coffee412 »

lsemmens wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:58 am
My commiserations. ;)

I'm blessed in that I have no "need" to indulge in "health foods". That said, I prefer Pepsi Max over Choke or the Pepsi equivalent. However, if that's your favourite poison, I'll not argue. :D
Telling a Down's Syndrome child s/he can become, say, a theoretical physicist would not only be wrong, it would be cruel.
There, you may be incorrect. Just because they have some impairment does not mean that they cannot be successful A theoretical physics degree may not necessarily be possible for many, just as many could not become renown actors, yet, there are numerous actors who suffer from that condition.
Excellant.

More importantly and maybe just restated in another way:

The real cruel intent is to discourage someone from obtaining a worthy goal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... n_syndrome
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Re: The Mint Café

Post by lsemmens »

coffee412 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:11 am

The real cruel intent is to discourage someone from obtaining a worthy goal.
Well said! We had a pastor who used to say "Have a go, you never know, you just might succeed!" :D

My favourite has always been the Bible verse "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me". It doesn't say I can excel in all all things, but that I can do them nor does it mean that I can sprout wings and fly. IYKWIM.
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Re: The Mint Café

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

lsemmens wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:58 am
Telling a Down's Syndrome child s/he can become, say, a theoretical physicist would not only be wrong, it would be cruel.
There, you may be incorrect. Just because they have some impairment does not mean that they cannot be successful A theoretical physics degree may not necessarily be possible for many, just as many could not become renown actors, yet, there are numerous actors who suffer from that condition.
[/quote]

Methinks you (and later posters) missed the point. I'm saying People with Down's Syndrome cannot accomplish things outside their capabilities, not that they can't be successful at anything, period. Sadly, there are many people who believe people can accomplish anything, no matter their abilities or lack of them, simply because they want it. It's belittling and demoralizing to the people who cannot due to limitations that are not their fault when they have that rammed down their throats.
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Re: The Mint Café

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Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:25 pm
Methinks you (and later posters) missed the point. I'm saying People with Down's Syndrome cannot accomplish things outside their capabilities, not that they can't be successful at anything, period. Sadly, there are many people who believe people can accomplish anything, no matter their abilities or lack of them, simply because they want it. It's belittling and demoralizing to the people who cannot due to limitations that are not their fault when they have that rammed down their throats.
In World War II in Britain there was a fighter pilot that was severely crippled in a plane accident. He lost both legs. Even when the best efforts where made to preserve his legs they were sadly amputated. He spent weeks in recovery and was consoled on what he could and could not do. However, His real passion was flying and he didnt want to give that up. Every day he had nurses catering to his every need. He sat in a wheel chair most of the time and watched as his fellow fighter pilots took to the air. Sadly, He was told that its best to retire and accept his fate. However, He never bothered to believe them and insisted on a pair of wooden legs. He spent every day learning to walk with these legs. It was a hard process. Many times he collapsed in pain and agony. Eventually he taught himself how to walk again. Then one day - and to the surprise of his fellow pilots - He walked out to a Spitfire using his crutches as he learned to do and got himself in the plane and took off. He found that even though he had no legs he could easily maneuver his wooden legs to handle the aircraft. When he finally landed the plane he was met by his superior and faced severe discipline for almost killing himself in what they thought was an act of insanity. However, He was able to convince them to let him fly. As it turned out he became one of the best fighter pilots in Britain. His aerial maneuvers became the talk of legend. Later when asked how he was able to accomplish such feats and score so many kills he replied "Since I have no legs, When in a high speed maneuver my blood has no where else to go. So, I never suffered from blackouts and found that I can withstand the limits that the airplane could provide. I can easily line up a kill and no matter what the enemy tried I could always close the gap and score the kill".

You see, Douglas Bader never listened to those telling him what the limits of his capabilities were.

There are many people living in the most prosperous countries in the world and yet every day they never strive to better their financial and mental well being. They never test the boundaries of their capabilities. For them it is easier to blame someone or something else for their troubles instead of attempting to rise above their circumstances. For them its just more comfortable to accept a check from the government then actually enrich themselves with the knowledge they need to become a valuable asset in society. They associate with people that pity them because of their perceived handicap which in reality is a simple lack of effort. Douglas Bader never accepted this and neither should anyone else.
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Re: The Mint Café

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

You are also missing the point. You are conflating physical abilities with innate talent. Some people are tone deaf and can never learn to sing in tune no matter how hard they try or much they want to. Some people are color blind; they will never be able to distinguish one color from another. Not everyone can grasp higher math, no matter how they try. most people will never have strength of super athletes due to their genetic makeup.

I have various learning disabilities, not least of which is ADHD. Many people with ADHD can function better with medications (sadly I wasn't one of them) or using "crutches" (written reminders, developing routines, etc.) to compensate for the areas they have problems. Telling them they can overcome their learning disabilities if they want it enough or try hard enough is not only wrong, it's cruel and demoralizing. I should know; I had to deal with that crap until I was diagnosed with ADHD back when I was in my early 50s. Now, I know how to compensate for it (much I was already doing before learning I had ADHD) and I'm able to function much better but there will be things I will have trouble doing or never will be able to do.

Before any of you armchair psychologists chime in, where did you get your psychology degree? I got mine from Abilene Christian College.
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Re: The Mint Café

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I have 21% permanent brain damage from a drunk who tried to park on top of me at 100kph. Of course there are limitations, many, though, are just your way of thinking. I will never play tennis like John MacEnroe but that should not prevent me from trying to play tennis at all. I can't hold a tune to save myself, but I'll still sing along with the crowd. As a muso, I have a shocking sense of timing, but I played quite successfully in Church bands with some professional musicians for over 40 years.

The only reason many people don't succeed at anything is because they haven't tried or been given the encouragement to do so. Of course if they try and fail, you do not belittle them for failing, but you do praise the attempt. The old cliche about Thomas Edison and the light globe springs to mind here. We have a friend who works in a sheltered workshop. Until her mother died she displayed no interest in cooking or decorating. She has now become quite an accomplished cook and has amazing decorating skills. Both, of which, she readily admits, never interested her.

As a comment on higher math, I never could get my head around calculus despite knowing the principles. That does not stop me trying to "get it".
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Re: The Mint Café

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The only reason many people don't succeed at anything is because they haven't tried or been given the encouragement to do so
This is the whole crux of the problem. There are many people that tend to discourage you from obtaining (or at least trying) to obtain your dreams. What is interesting is that some people do this not because they want you to fail but rather because they do not want you to get hurt or discouraged. In reality even though their intentions are good what they are really doing is holding people back from the attempt at success.

How many have heard the saying "Its better to try and fail then to never try at all". This is advice that seems to be set aside in this age. In my opinion the true definition of failure is to give up. Therefore, If you never give up on obtaining a goal then you have never failed. Failure at an attempt should really be looked as a learning experience. A lot can be gained from a failed attempt to help you further your attempts at reaching your goal.

Sheltering someone from failure is really an attempt to keep them from experiencing the feelings of failure. However, Without experiencing failure you will never appreciate success. Thru failure we get an accurate idea of what it takes to succeed and what our true limits are. With that in mind we can come up with a winning plan to succeed. If you want to truly experience success then you have to accept failure as part of obtaining success. Failures are the building blocks to achieving your goals.

If you want a better income then you must put forth the effort and sacrifice to obtain that goal. This is why such leaders as those that created companies like HP, IBM, McDonald's are rich. Because of their hard work, Sacrifice and risk taking they have become unbelievably wealthy. Now contrast that to the worker at a fast food restaurant. Their investment in success is minimal and their risk is very little. They are comfortable in that they are not taking any risks. All they have to do is show up for work and do the tasks they were hired to perform. Yet they complain about their income. They demand more money so that they also can enjoy the benefits of success. However, They do not realize that success comes from developing a plan to better themselves and thus becoming more valuable asset to their employer or other employers that will recognize their worth. They are unwilling to take the steps necessary to climb the ladder of success. They just demand the benefits of success and listen to those that tell them that is a God given right. Nothing is farther from the truth.

Lets stray from this topic a bit to take a look at what I just said in the last paragraph.

There is a big effort by those workers in the fast food industry to increase their minimum wage far above what they earn now to over 15.00 dollars an hour. With this type of increase in hourly wage the money has to come from somewhere. Therefore the cost of the product has to rise. As the cost of the product rises these workers will realize that their buying power ultimately has not changed. Perhaps also the employer will look to cut costs to afford this wage increase and start laying off workers. With the layoff of workers the burden of extra work is shifted to those still remaining. Perhaps also the alternative for the employer is simply close the company down or move it to somewhere where the cost of labor is less. So, Success has not come to these workers. The definition of success still holds - The employee's have gained nothing because they have not fulfilled the requirements for success. All they had to realize is that if they wanted a better living income they should look to making themselves more valuable to the economy by developing better skills. Success can only be achieved thru dedication and hard work to a goal.



None of the below comments have anything to do with Success.
Some people are tone deaf and can never learn to sing in tune no matter how hard they try or much they want to.
Some people are color blind; they will never be able to distinguish one color from another.
Ludwig Van Beethoven, Will.i.am, Thomas Edison, many more.
Not everyone can grasp higher math, no matter how they try.
Higher math is not a prerequisite for Success. One of the richest men in my home town is the junk yard owner.
most people will never have strength of super athletes due to their genetic makeup.

Most people do not want to be Super Athletes. Most define Success in other terms.
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Re: The Mint Café

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

:roll: I give up. You all keep missing the point.

Btw, Beethoven was NOT tone deaf. He did have grossly diminished hearing in his later years but he was not "tone deaf". Look up tone deaf.
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Re: The Mint Café

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Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:43 pm
:roll: I give up. You all keep missing the point.
Hi,

And what's your point? If you mix the debilitated persons, wunderkinds and geniuses into the equation, only to make your point look true, the advice will certainly prove to be a false one. But that didn't prevent you from finding a workaround for your particular problem which boils down to the same thing.

Do you see the contradiction?

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Re: The Mint Café

Post by lsemmens »

Your point being, "you have a disability, therefore, you should not try"?
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Re: The Mint Café

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Happening right now:
One of my kids using LM, for the first time, to do some homework for school, and really nailing it.
His big brother has a Win7 machine that is ripe for an upgrade to LM.

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Re: The Mint Café

Post by Chrysalessence »

I like the name of this topic because one of my favorite beverages is mint mocha (coffee + cocoa with mint flavor added).
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Re: The Mint Café

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Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:21 pm
I have various learning disabilities, not least of which is ADHD. Many people with ADHD can function better with medications (sadly I wasn't one of them) or using "crutches" (written reminders, developing routines, etc.) to compensate for the areas they have problems. Telling them they can overcome their learning disabilities if they want it enough or try hard enough is not only wrong, it's cruel and demoralizing.
I agree. I don't see it as a good thing to tell people they can do or learn anything they want if they only want it bad enough; we all have different abilities and it makes no sense to pretend this is not the case. It doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage each other to try and learn new things, but surely we can do that without telling untruths?

My partner has limited mobility. It would make no sense, and it would not be a kindness, to tell him that he can definitely run a marathon if he just works really hard at it.
lsemmens wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:09 pm
Your point being, "you have a disability, therefore, you should not try"?
She's said no such thing. I read it as 'there are things you can do, and things you'll never be able to do; try what you want to try, if you succeed that's great, if you don't then maybe it's just not in the cards'.
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Re: The Mint Café

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Moem wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:59 am
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:21 pm
I have various learning disabilities, not least of which is ADHD. Many people with ADHD can function better with medications (sadly I wasn't one of them) or using "crutches" (written reminders, developing routines, etc.) to compensate for the areas they have problems. Telling them they can overcome their learning disabilities if they want it enough or try hard enough is not only wrong, it's cruel and demoralizing.
I agree. I don't see it as a good thing to tell people they can do or learn anything they want if they only want it bad enough; we all have different abilities and it makes no sense to pretend this is not the case. It doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage each other to try and learn new things, but surely we can do that without telling untruths?

My partner has limited mobility. It would make no sense, and it would not be a kindness, to tell him that he can definitely run a marathon if he just works really hard at it.
lsemmens wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:09 pm
Your point being, "you have a disability, therefore, you should not try"?
She's said no such thing. I read it as 'there are things you can do, and things you'll never be able to do; try what you want to try, if you succeed that's great, if you don't then maybe it's just not in the cards'.
Thank you for "getting it" and giving a good alternate explanation.
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Re: The Mint Café

Post by ColdBootII »

Moem wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:59 am
My partner has limited mobility. It would make no sense, and it would not be a kindness, to tell him that he can definitely run a marathon if he just works really hard at it.
Oh yeah? Well, this guy seems to disagree strongly with that point of view. :mrgreen:
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-londo ... 06128.html

Though, it does boil down to weather someone really wants to do something or not, barring extremes, naturally.

BTW, can't get myself to wash the dishes, although I should do that and am able. :mrgreen: But, with a litlle self-inflicted motivation, off I go to do that even if I don't feels like it right now... :mrgreen:

Cheers

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