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UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:12 am
by xenopeek
Earlier, concerns were raised around Microsoft's requirements to its hardware partners to run Windows 8 with UEFI secure boot enabled. The major concern was this could lead to "bricked" hardware, which you could not run any other operating system on (even from Microsoft).

While those concerns have been allayed somewhat since, here is a strong reminder of the path Microsoft still is on: http://www.softwarefreedom.org/blog/201 ... -down-ARM/

In a nutshell; any ARM based device (tablet, ultrabook-like laptop) running Windows 8 will be required to not be able to run anything but Windows 8... No disabling of secure boot is allowed, neither is custom mode (which allows a user to add signatures to boot other operating systems with secure boot enabled).

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:11 am
by ej64
I hope this will be widely discussed when these tablets hit the market. And that such dongling policies will be stigmatized by the public.

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:17 am
by Roken
I saw this over at LQ yesterday. My reaction upon reading - well, I didn't really have one. There's nothing surprising in it whatsoever. What will I do about it? Nothing. I don't buy MS stuff anyway, so I won't be buying a Windows phone, Windows tablet or anything else that says Windows on it. I build my own PCs, so I don't get Win as a default option that I have to remove. Bottom line, it affects me not one bit.

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:50 am
by remoulder
I would imagine any attempt to do this by MS would attract the attention of the regulatory authorities both in the US and EU.

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:59 am
by tdockery97
It's certainly not the first time MS has blatantly attempted to monopolize the marketplace. They've been put in their place nearly every time, and I don't expect this to be any different. Worst case scenario is that they get away with it, and all of us Linuxers will be building our own pc's. While I still boot into Win 7 once a month or so, I'll build my own pc before I'm forced into using ONLY Windows.

The way I actually think it will play out is that once the major manufacturers bending to this are identified, there will be a huge campaign against their products, similar to what happened with GoDaddy supporting SOPA. Our community may not be huge in comparison with Windows users, but pc manufacturers aren't going to want to lose ANY dollars over this.

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:13 am
by gn2
Vincent Vermeulen wrote:In a nutshell; any ARM based device (tablet, ultrabook-like laptop) running Windows 8 will be required to not be able to run anything but Windows 8... No disabling of secure boot is allowed, neither is custom mode (which allows a user to add signatures to boot other operating systems with secure boot enabled).
Which will be OK if consumers have the choice to buy a non-Windows ARM device.
It's the availability of this choice which causes me most concern.
Remember what happened to Linux netbooks...

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:45 am
by Detonate
Although this will not affect me personally, as I build my own computers, it will cause me problems in converting people to Linux. All of the many people I have convinced to try Linux have machines that were purchased with Windows installed. This is a major concern for me.

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:38 am
by KBD47
This seems to me like a "foot in the door" kind of thing for MS to see what they can get away with. My big concern is the future and the number of devices that may end up running on ARM. Right now this might not seem huge, but in 3-5 years if many/most laptops are running ARM it will be a big deal and harder to do something about if MS gets away with it now.
KBD47

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:37 pm
by harvi
I think, this doesnt affect users if they could choose what they want ( Microsoft software or somethink else)

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:22 pm
by xenopeek
Like Roken and Detonate (and tdockery97 when left with no other option :wink:), I always build my own machines. Still, Linux supports ARM as a platform, and I'd like to run Linux on a future tablet...

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:06 pm
by dritzominous
Well, now I'm definitely getting an android tablet. :lol:

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:34 pm
by melbo
Isn't this what Apple does with Macs?
I thought that was why you had to use special Apple bootloaders (bootcamp) to load another, approved OS.
Don't know since I don't have a Mac but the OSx86 guys are always talking about efi.

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:55 pm
by karliet
I actually upgraded my comp recently and the new bios had UEFI safe boot which made me mad (for a second) but after looking through the Bios I noticed that I could disable the safe boot b.s. I am not sure whether all bios's will have this option (or if this option will be able to be disabled)

(p.s. I also custom build my computers. Why pay the 30% mark-up for terrible prebuilt hard ware?)

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:33 am
by tomast
karliet,
May I ask which Mother Board you have ?
I was planning to get a new Gigabyte MB soon but I can't seem to find out if it will have the "disable UEFI" feature or not...

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:20 am
by viking777
I can't seem to find out if it will have the "disable UEFI" feature or not...
And this is going to be the big problem for everybody, and not only with motherboards.

"Build your own" is not an option if you only use laptops as I do.

I can just imagine the kind of response you will get from sales support lines when you ask "Does this machine's bios enable me to switch off Uefi secure boot?"

And even asking the question doesn't bypass the fact that they will tell you anything you want to hear just to sell to you.

Sure you can send it back, but the whole process of returning anything (particularly if you buy online) is made as difficult as possible just to discourage people from doing it.

The whole idea is a nightmare and the 'safeguards' which have supposedly been built in do nothing to change that.

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:23 pm
by karliet
tomast wrote:karliet,
May I ask which Mother Board you have ?
I was planning to get a new Gigabyte MB soon but I can't seem to find out if it will have the "disable UEFI" feature or not...
I am currently using the Intel DH67GD media series

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:51 pm
by tomast
Thanks karliet , I may end up getting an Intel MB if I can't get an answer from Gigabyte.

@ viking777,
You are so right. I have asked repeatedly on the Gigabyte forum about this but
the Silence is Deafening ! No response at all. :x No yes, no , maybe or anything at all...Nothing.

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:32 pm
by xenopeek
tomast wrote:Thanks karliet , I may end up getting an Intel MB if I can't get an answer from Gigabyte.

@ viking777,
You are so right. I have asked repeatedly on the Gigabyte forum about this but
the Silence is Deafening ! No response at all. :x No yes, no , maybe or anything at all...Nothing.
Well, there goes my topic... Hijacked! :roll: What does any of this have to do with ARM 8)

As for Gigabyte, I see you want the GA-X79-UD7. In the specifications for that motherboard it says on their website "Support for Microsoft® Windows 7/Vista/XP". There is no mention of secure boot. As none of these Windows versions would be able to install on a UEFI BIOS that has secure boot locked down, I guess that in fact this motherboard doesn't have secure boot at all. But once Windows 8 comes around, it wouldn't surprise me if a UEFI BIOS update would add this feature to get certified. (But remember that Gigabyte's demographic is the enthusiast / tweaker crowd, and even though they focus on Windows gamers only, a lot of those won't be moving to Windows 8 yet...)

Back on topic of Linux + ARM and UEFI please...

Re: UEFI: Windows 8 will ban Linux running on ARM

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:08 pm
by tomast
Oops Sorry Vincent,
I guess I started reading in the middle of the discussion and skipped the beginning...
and apparently the TITLE too... :oops:
And I guess you are prob right , if it will run XP it should run Linux :D