Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Questions about the project and the distribution - obviously no support questions here please
MagnusB
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by MagnusB »

I like the fact that people have started quoting me, makes me feel important and smart :)
And @ Fred, well said, that was an issue I didn't think all that much about, and I am a privacy freak (borderline paranoid!).
As for Husse, no I don't think there are many "old" people having the same amount knowledge of computers & linux like you have.
There are cases where autologin is ok, so why not do as OpenSuSE (and probably more), where you include that option during install?
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by Husse »

@ MagnusB
You flatter me :oops:
But I guess Fred is older than me (I'm soon 62) and there are a few other oldies but goodies in the forum
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Fred
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by Fred »

For what it is worth, I was born late one Sunday morning. It was drizzling rain. Luckily I had just finished the roof on our hut the day before. It was the 3rd day of April, in the year of our Lord 1938. :-)

Fred

EDIT: If my math is correct, that would make me about 39 years old. :-)
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by Czarny »

Hi!

WOW -- I haven't anticipated such a response!

Well -- the language files should fit, it just ougt to be. I know the tradeoff between single CD and DVD, but that's a royal PITA.

As for the autologin I trully understand all of it's implications -- with the one making bad habbits for users being the most important one. However IMHO it'd be nice to have a checkbox somewhere in the installer, as in some situations it's a very nifty thing and I've found the need of going through a manual tweaking of the system after installing it a little time consuming.

Yea -- I know, it's just a few clicks away, but consider, that the whole process of installing a linux distro on a beginers computer is somewhat more time consuming: repartitioning (sometimes involvig a lot of data copying, as ntfs resizes don't work well), ISO downloading, the instalation process and post-configuration. Belive me, that doing basically the same thing from time to time makes you very unhappy when you need to manually install languages and tip the autologing.

Thanks for a very roadbust response,
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newW2
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by newW2 »

I work with a Senior-Fellow Engineer that is Fred's age and he's still someone that you have to run to keep up with. Just about a week ago we were climbing a flight of stair and he was taking them two at a time. That's the physical part, his mind is even stronger than that physical example. I learn more from him in an hour than I do form days of research or collaboration with other so called experts. Fred strikes me as that same kind of man.

Glad he is with us. I see his name on a forum topic, and I want to read it.
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by deadguy »

newW2 wrote:Glad he is with us. I see his name on a forum topic, and I want to read it.

I too, have learned a lot from Fred's posts!
he is truly an asset to this Mint community :D
confused.brit

Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by confused.brit »

Now #I'm a windows poweruser and a complete Linux noob, trying out Mint because it was recommended as an easy distro to start with: something I on trying it agree with.

Now, you seem to have missed one thing makes a good case for autologon.

My brother and his girlfriend are coming to visit for christmas, and will most likely want to check facebook etc while they are here. Knowing my bro, he will be curious about Mint and probably poke around with it a little. Fair enough, it might convince him to switch from Vista, or at least consider it.

If I dont set it autologon, then he has to know my password, or a password. And what does Mint ask for whenever you need to be sudo'd into root? Whoops, security breech.
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Fred
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by Fred »

confused.brit,

This doesn't have to be a problem. If you don't mind your brother poking around in your data stores without supervision, then set it for auto log-in. The folder you have that letter in you wrote to your sister telling her about how your brother's hot girlfriend made a pass at you the last time they visited can be easily protected from your brother's casual exploration by setting it to root privileges only. :-)

You can easily set it all back like it was after they leave.

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

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rec9140
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by rec9140 »

confused.brit wrote:If I dont set it autologon, then he has to know my password, or a password. And what does Mint ask for whenever you need to be sudo'd into root? Whoops, security breech.
Create an account for him to use.

If he needs to access something with sudo then you probably need to know any way, so no breech if doesn't have the password.

Users do not commonly need access to things that require the root password.

web browsing and email don't need sudo.

I wouldn't turn over access to my machine regardless of who it is including my mother. Only I have the root password, and no one else is getting it.
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AK Dave
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by AK Dave »

Husse wrote:And autologin - probably yes.
Not only NO, but HECK NO!

Maybe make autologin an easy checkbox on install. But wait, it already is an easy checkbox on install. Right after filling in your name, userid, password, and computer name you get to check a box for autologin. Doh!

Maybe add it to the mint script that pops up when you first login and it asks you about the root account and stuff like that. But that would be redundant. See above.

My most common Mint installs are for computers that will routinely see use by multiple people. Autologin by default? I'll scream. If it is too much work to give your login info to use your computer, disable this feature and accept the consequences. But don't disable this feature by default. Even for single-user laptop use, I want the password by default. ESPECIALLY for single-user laptop use. OMFG you expect me to step away from my laptop and give everyone unfettered access to it? Not by default you don't.

If you want autologin, enable it. If you forget, enable it later. But don't make the rest of us disable it.
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AK Dave
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by AK Dave »

rec9140 wrote:Security on laptops to desktops should not be circumvented even in the home environment. Its just plain bad habit to get in to, and even worse for laptops.....
When I put Mint on the home computers, my kids all thought the login stuff was a stupid waste of time. They were used to Windows.

Then I shows them what a login and unique account gives them on a *nix box: a unique userland environment.
1. Your own Firefox bookmarks.
2. Firefox remembers YOUR tabs, not your sister's.
3. You can change the fonts, background, and window decorations to suit your taste. They stay changed.
4. The autologin for gmail is yours.
5. When you change the settings for a game, the settings stay changed.
6. When you wreck the settings for a game, Dad (root) can fix it by copying his .settings folder to yours.
7. If Dad wants to use Enlightenment when he logs in, he can. But you don't have to.
8. After 6 months, the computer still runs faster than it did with XP. Take that, XP!
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AK Dave
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by AK Dave »

confused.brit wrote:If I dont set it autologon, then he has to know my password, or a password. And what does Mint ask for whenever you need to be sudo'd into root? Whoops, security breech.
First thing I always do is create a Guest account. With limited access. userid=guest pass=friend (used to be something more obscure in Quenya, but I simplified it because not everyone is a lit-geek like me). So if I've configured an install, even if it is at AKLUG while helping a total noob (like my mother and her brand new Dell Mini-9 w/ Ubuntu) it has a Guest account and now you all know the password. Why? 1) the guest account allows your brother-in-law to check Facebook without needing your password, and 2) the new user now knows how to use basic System tools like "Users and Groups" so when they email me with a problem I can say "add your user account to the Scanners group" and they'll know what to do (real life answer: guy's Canon scanner wouldn't work for anything).
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Fred
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by Fred »

AK Dave,

I like that solution. It was better than mine. :-)

+1

Fred
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AK Dave
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by AK Dave »

Fred, I love the account management options.

That guest account is always one of the first things I teach a noob to do. Then we login as guest and see what a guest can and cannot do. Gets the wheels spinning. You mean I can let my spouse, child, co-worker, lolcat use my new computer and they can't frak something up? Well, not unless they know more than you do. And lookie, if they're logged in and NEED to do something funky (or you need to do something funky for them) you can override their privs with your own because you're the "superuser". I don't say "root" except with other *nix-geeks.

People like knowing they're Super.
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by Husse »

AK Dave wrote:
Husse wrote:And autologin - probably yes.
Not only NO, but HECK NO!
I've skimmed this as the topic suddenly woke to life and i must say I agree - I think I answered out of context the first time
I use autologin on my desktops as I'm the only one using them and the only other person in my home is normally my wife (whom I trust :))
On my laptops I do not use autologin...
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Fred
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by Fred »

Let us not loose sight of the points in one of my earlier posts. All of these suggestions have more to do with social issues than security. Getting around any of these schemes is trivial without true encryption being used.

All the possible password setups simply encourage the honest, casual user to respect the privacy of others. They won't accidentally trip over something that they weren't meant to see. They would have to make a conscious decision to pry into another's personal work product.

I make this point again because it seems all too often that people make the mistake of thinking that they have somehow enhanced security with a shiny, expensive new biometric device, or a strong BIOS, grub, or log-in password. In a recent post a fancy phrase was used to describe this enhanced security. "A multi-layered authentication process." At least that's the best I can remember it.

In reality, anyone wanting to find out what was on the machine wouldn't bother to go through this authentication process in the first place. :-) After all, nobody cares about getting the OS to work. The data is the only thing of value or interest. OSs are a dime a dozen. :-)

I have said it before and I will say it again. With current technology, if one has physical access to the equipment, the only real security or protection your data has is through true encryption.

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.
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AK Dave
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by AK Dave »

The irony of this thread is the title. Powerusers thoughts? No, I don't think so. Maybe the thoughts of a WINDOWS poweruser, someone who doesn't give a second thought to passwords or security or network administration. A linux poweruser? No.

Linux powerusers have complex passwords which they can whip out on a keyboard at lightning speed like they're cranking out something complex on Guitar Hero. A linux poweruser doesn't care about having to type in a password and sees it as a convenience to do so, not an obstacle to overcome, and perhaps a chance to exercise his puissant typing skills mastered by intense commandline use. Type a password? 13 characters? Upper/lower with some numbers and special characters? With my eyes closed, error free, in as much time as it takes a Windows user to mouseclick "okay, I accept selling my personal information online for the convenience of a mouseclick".

Where I work, people are amazed that I keyboard most of my chartnotes instead of point-clicking my way through the software. My chartnotes are 90% done in what they call "freetext" boxes instead of clicking around, and it works for me.

My wife bought us a 2nd DSlite for use at home because with 4 kids and only 1 handheld game thing the competition was high, but she didn't want to gift it to any kid in particular and didn't want it to be "mom bought a DSlite" so she made it a birthday gift to me. Hooray, my own DSlite. I never play it. Kids wanted to schedule time for me to play it, asked why I don't play it, responded "no commandline".
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Re: Powerusers thoughts after few mint installations

Post by Husse »

Type a password? 13 characters? Upper/lower with some numbers and special characters? With my eyes closed, error free, in as much time as it takes a Windows user to mouseclick "okay, I accept selling my personal information online for the convenience of a mouseclick".
Yeah
Only not 13 and I have to take a quick look at the keyboard especially now when it is beginning to (physically) break down
But I'm no command line freak, but I use it as it is a powerful tool
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