Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome?

Questions about the project and the distribution - obviously no support questions here please
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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by BigEasy » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:20 pm

Pjotr wrote:It always amazes me when people completely bork their Linux with tons of obscure PPA's and then start complaining that their Frankenstein systems don't work anymore... :shock:
Exactly same in Windows. Doing this and that then system don't work.
Windows assumes I'm stupid but Linux demands proof of it

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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by Raident » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:12 pm

Wow, I'm surprised. Most people here not only disagree, which I had expected, they're so narrow minded that they can't even grasp any viewpoint other than the one they've formed through their own experiences.

I'd like to thank those who shared their experiences and provided suggestions. As for those who tried to counter what I said point by point, I'm happy to see that you understood me but I can also see that you're in denial, so I'll say just this: it doesn't make a difference whatsoever whether or not you or anybody else in the world can reproduce the issue. The fact that I experience these issues is enough to make unhappy. Because I'm me. And I'm the only one who's me. So even if something is true in general terms, if it's not true to me, then it's effectively irrelevant to me, no?

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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by jimallyn » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:01 am

You might try starting a new topic in the appropriate forum for several of the problems you are having, one problem per topic. More likely to get answers that way.
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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by karlchen » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:48 am

Hello, Raident.
jimallyn wrote:You might try starting a new topic in the appropriate forum for several of the problems you are having, one problem per topic. More likely to get answers that way.
Absolutely correct!
I have got the vague feeling exactly this piece of advice has been given on page 1 of this thread already. :wink:
karlchen wrote:If you were interested in solving the issues which you explained, then you would open a thread for each of them and try to get help solving the issue. This would very likely bring about much more benefit for all participants than one more "Why Linux Mint is so cumbersome" thread.
Quite honestly, I think jimallyn's post could be considered the wise closing words of this thread.
Because, unless you, Raident, do as jimallyn suggests, then this thread will basically go on in circles:
You insist that your experience with Linux Mint is cumbersome which everybody has understood and which nobody denies.
Most replies will be posted to explain that and why other users have got more pleasant experience with Linux Mint.
Without taking the pain of digging into each problem which you experience, this fruitless circle will never be interrupted.

Kind regards,
Karl
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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by Cosmo. » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:07 am

I have another vague feeling.
Raident wrote:it doesn't make a difference whatsoever whether or not you or anybody else in the world can reproduce the issue.
A user forum lives from the experience of the users. If this experience "doesn't make a difference whatsoever" then there leaves only empty space (aka hot air). This sounds, as if answers taken from experience with a given setup / hardware precondition is not wanted ("narrow minded ... through their own experiences").

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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by Reorx » Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:03 am

Raident wrote:Wow, I'm surprised. Most people here not only disagree, which I had expected, they're so narrow minded that they can't even grasp any viewpoint other than the one they've formed through their own experiences.
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Look in the mirror... :lol:
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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by Pjotr » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:07 pm

Raident wrote:it doesn't make a difference whatsoever whether or not you or anybody else in the world can reproduce the issue. The fact that I experience these issues is enough to make unhappy. Because I'm me. And I'm the only one who's me. So even if something is true in general terms, if it's not true to me, then it's effectively irrelevant to me, no?
Look at the title of your thread: that's a general statement claiming universal validity.

So if we disprove the universal validity of that statement, by citing our own positive experiences, that's about as relevant as can be.

For your cited remark to be true, you need to change the title of this thread into:
"Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome FOR ME?"
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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by Crewp » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:56 pm

Agreed, Karlchen said it :roll: best, how about what version of Mint is the OP using? What hardware is he/she running it on? Otherwise this person is trolling. :roll:
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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by NeoGeo64 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:25 pm

Why is it so cumbersome? Because it appears that way to you. You're comparing it to everything else. You're not ready for the Linux world. Go get your Windows wubbie and suck your thumb for a few more years. Linux will be there, always, waiting for you to try again. It is clearly the superior OS.

deleted

Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by deleted » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:27 pm

The OP clearly has never installed [any version of] Windows from scratch.
-Z

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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by Grimmway » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:10 am

This is bizarre and interesting. The Linux community has a chance to help a new user make it over the hump, past the learning curve, and into a happy Linux experience.

However, when Raident expresses some feelings and frustrations about his (?) experience, and asks for help & guidance, he is refuted, called a troll, and becomes a target for ad hominems? He did not say "Adios" to Linux. Yet he was treated as if he had?

I too am new to Linux Mint, and want to make it work, removing my dependence on MS and other corporate OS solutions.
I too am having many little issues that I do not know how to overcome.
I too have many questions about how to configure, what to turn on/off, and the whys/hows of Linux.
I too have multiple frustrations about Linux Mint that a long-time user can easily overcome.

Most of the replies are disheartening. Understand that Raident's experience and questions are not an attack on you, your OS of choice, your favorite TV show, your politics, whatever.

If you have nothing constructive to add, why respond? Might as well just reply with "STFU Noob". If you want Linux Mint to grow in adoption, get some thicker skin and help. Ask the OP probing questions, ask direct questions, ask for the command line outputs you need to help diagnose the issues. Otherwise, it will remain niche.

I have a ton of questions regarding out of the box support for Linux Mint. I expect to get them answered here as well.

--Grimmway

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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by jimallyn » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:22 am

Well said, Grimmway! There is no need to be rude to people, and there are several people in this thread who need to learn that.
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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by MtnDewManiac » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:41 am

Grimmway wrote:This is bizarre and interesting. The Linux community has a chance to help a new user make it over the hump, past the learning curve, and into a happy Linux experience.

However, when Raident
New user? He has been a member here for about 3½ years.

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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by Pjotr » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:58 am

Grimmway wrote:not an attack on (....) your OS of choice
But it is....

A constructive question formulated like this, would have received only helpful, polite and friendly answers:
"I have tons of problems with Mint. Can you please help me to solve the following problems: a, b, c, d, ...?"

Note the difference with the current question (which is not even a help request at all!):
"Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome?"
Asking a question like that, is asking for what happened in this thread.
I have a ton of questions regarding out of the box support for Linux Mint. I expect to get them answered here as well.
You may certainly expect that. Just remember to ask your questions in a constructive way. :)
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 19.2 Tina
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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by MtnDewManiac » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:32 am

Pjotr wrote:
Grimmway wrote:I have a ton of questions regarding out of the box support for Linux Mint. I expect to get them answered here as well.
You may certainly expect that. Just remember to ask your questions in a constructive way. :)
Yeah... Many (most?) of the developers don't receive a cent for working on Mint, and the staff and members here at the forum definitely don't. Kindness, appreciation, and also respect for their favorite OS seems like little enough payment. <SHRUGS> I have found that one can often buy quite a bit of value with that sort of coin, BtW - and dispensing it is certainly less messy than swinging an ax. Not quite as entertaining, maybe....

Regards,
MDM
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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by Hoser Rob » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:33 am

Zumwalt wrote:The OP clearly has never installed [any version of] Windows from scratch.
-Z
:lol:

That's what I was thinking. It's amazing how many people think they're windows experts but they're actually clueless. I live in a university town where half the population is students and believe me, I know this. Most of them don't even know how to use Google ...

And many windoze users just think they're the administrator. They are not ready to really be one.
Last edited by r00t on Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed offensive word

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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by Hot Wampa » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:35 pm

I feel OP's pain. Whenever I install and configure a system... OS & apps... I keep a log of my steps. The logs for linux systems are invariably 20x longer and filled with more hiccups, problems, etc.
I don't know if "cumbersome" is the word I'd use, though.
Unpolished, unsupported, incompatible, buggy. Those are words I'm more apt to use.
There are certainly more stumbling blocks with linux compared to Windows and OSX. The latter two have more users to find bugs, more money behind their development, and longer lifecycle stability (e.g. MS supported WinXP for 12 years, releasing security patches and bug fixes).
I've been running linux at home for over 2 years now. I only run Windows for work (corporate environment), or for one or two applications that are not available for linx/wine and have no native equivalent (e.g. the full version of OneNote). I like linux, but it definitely has its weak points. However, I have noticed those issues getting smaller and fewer. I've played with linux off and on over the years, and a couple years ago things had improved well enough that I began using it full time. I'm confident those improvements will continue steadily.
jimallyn wrote:Sorry to hear that Linux doesn't work for you. It has worked well for me for 13 years now, and I wouldn't consider using anything else. I don't find using Windows to be a pleasant experience. I have occasion to use Windows on my mother's computer now and then, and every time it's a royal pain in the ass.
Speaking from years of experience, I can tell you that using anyone's mother's computer is a PITA.

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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by blaster3 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:22 pm

i am a 55 year old noob to linux mint 17.2 rafaela cinnamon 64 bit installed on a clean ssd as sole OS on 27 july 2015 and i can say i find it fascinating even though i have only used m$ before hand. i am in no way an expert and i am clueless as to how to use the terminal, which is my shortfall not mint's. my main use is for spreadsheets (personal & business) and to explore the interweb. i was pleased to see libreoffice loaded all my spreadsheets and workbooks EXACTLY as they were laid out in excel/word, even some very old 'home publishing' sheets, it was a simply effortless transition, many thanks to mint.
the only 'hiccup' was of my own doing, it seems i inadvertently made a password change using the 'new login' command and somehow i was locked out, so i did a re-install and all is fixed with all my office workbooks still intact, try that with winblows.

i always have just started 'clicking' and 'see' what happens, two choices, either it accomplished my goal or 'oops' that didn't work so start over... starting over in mint is much less painful than starting over in winblows.

this link helped a lot... https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -prominent

synopsis, it's definitely NOT cumbersome.

anyway, i just wanted to add my half-cent worth, mint-onward

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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by MtnDewManiac » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:49 pm

blaster3 wrote:the only 'hiccup' was of my own doing, it seems i inadvertently made a password change using the 'new login' command and somehow i was locked out, so i did a re-install and all is fixed with all my office workbooks still intact, try that with winblows.
Off-topic, so I will not go into it here, but unless you are using disk or user home directory encryption in linux, it's real easy to change an account password to something else on your system. <SHRUGS> I don't know about the newer 8.x - 10 versions of Microsoft Windows, but it was pretty easy on previous versions of that, as well. My buddy's brother owns a small business and when the owner's veg-head son managed to change the password on their (Windows) computer, the owner panicked and called me. I did a quick web search, downloaded a tiny bootable .ISO, burned it to a CD, walked to the shop, booted to the CD, and changed the password (actually, I think I might have just removed the password for them, IIRC); I then gave him the CD in case he lets the halfwit screw things up again so he won't have to call me for it. The owner asked me what I was charging him for what I'd just done and I said, "Well, since you're my best friend's brother, I'll just charge you what I have in the job... 29 cents for the disc." He replied (after he stopped laughing long enough to talk), "The computer place I called wanted $60 - here's $40, thanks." :P

The above might be why people who are at all concerned with securing their data use disk encryption - otherwise, anyone who has physical access to your computer can access everything and, if they have time, copy it to portable media, install something that'll send it to them in the wee hours, et cetera.

Regards,
MDM
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Re: Why is Mint (and desktop Linux in general) so cumbersome

Post by z31fanatic » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:01 pm

MtnDewManiac wrote: Off-topic, so I will not go into it here, but unless you are using disk or user home directory encryption in linux, it's real easy to change an account password to something else on your system. <SHRUGS> I don't know about the newer 8.x - 10 versions of Microsoft Windows, but it was pretty easy on previous versions of that, as well. My buddy's brother owns a small business and when the owner's veg-head son managed to change the password on their (Windows) computer, the owner panicked and called me. I did a quick web search, downloaded a tiny bootable .ISO, burned it to a CD, walked to the shop, booted to the CD, and changed the password (actually, I think I might have just removed the password for them, IIRC); I then gave him the CD in case he lets the halfwit screw things up again so he won't have to call me for it. The owner asked me what I was charging him for what I'd just done and I said, "Well, since you're my best friend's brother, I'll just charge you what I have in the job... 29 cents for the disc." He replied (after he stopped laughing long enough to talk), "The computer place I called wanted $60 - here's $40, thanks." :P

The above might be why people who are at all concerned with securing their data use disk encryption - otherwise, anyone who has physical access to your computer can access everything and, if they have time, copy it to portable media, install something that'll send it to them in the wee hours, et cetera.

Regards,
MDM
I think you need to thank MS for making you an easy $40 :wink:


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