What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Questions about the project and the distribution - obviously no support questions here please
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Moem
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Moem »

Pjotr wrote:Does that bother you?
No. People like what they like, that is fine.

Personally, I prefer the direct route and some others might, too.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Laugh2 »

Thank you for your suggestion, Pjotr.

Lubuntu and Peppermint
The latest Lubuntu i.e. 16.04 results in jerky movements (described above).

So I tried Peppermint 7, which would only boot once I forced PAE. It does look like a nice distro but still suffered the same jerky mouse movements using both the in-built mouse pad and a Logitech USB mouse. Unfortunately no success here either.

Grub's Character based Menu
My last posting on 24/12/2016 in viewtopic.php?f=46&t=235788 (referred to above on 15/1/17) describes jerkyness also in Grub's character based UI menu. :!:

So, since jerkyness is seen not only in mouse movements but also without a GUI, presumably lighter distro's reducing graphical loading will all have similar issues. Because LM13 (Ubuntu 12.04) works well but LM17.x (Ubuntu 14.04) and LM18.x (Ubuntu 16.04) don't it seems likely that something loaded before or with Grub and different between LM13 and LM17 is causing the problems

Perhaps this can help track down the issue? It would be great if a command issued in the same way as "forcepae" could solve the issue. :?: If this could be found latest Mint versions might run OK too, which would be great.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Habitual »

Do nothing. You've had years to answer the question.
</opinion>
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Laugh2 »

Do nothing? As mentioned above my own production machines are already on LM17.x and LM18.x. Also LM13 will become unsafe and presumably with time unable to run everyday programs. So doing nothing for those machines unable to run later versions would not be sensible.

[Edit]
As mentioned previously, the motivations are several-fold 1) they are backup laptops, 2) not everyone in the world has widespread access nor money to buy hardware, especially when 3) the hardware concerned runs well on LM13 for everyday uses.
Last edited by Laugh2 on Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by dishdude »

For old hardware, I found Xubuntu and Tahrpup run well.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Laugh2 »

Thanks for your suggestions too, dishdude.

Xubuntu 16.04.01 showed the same jerkiness. This result fits the picture that versions based on the latest Ubuntu all show the problem, even with a lighter GUI. The GUI itself isn't really the issue as jerkyness is seen in Grub's character based menus too in the latest Ubuntu-based distros.

TahrPup 6.0.2 was downloaded from http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... 20-6.0-CE/. The non-PAE version booted well and ran successfully without jerkiness, so a partial success. :) (It wasn't possible to successfully execute "forcepae" so I couldn't trial the PAE version.)

Bohdi Linux 4.0.0-32 was also jerky. It is based on the latest Ubuntu so therefore also not surprising. (Bohdi's legacy version was also jerky.)

LinuxBBQ-lunchtime (latest version from 7 Nov 2016), which is based on Debian, wouldn't start at all. Instead it repeats "wistron_btns: unknown key code 10" continuously.

Since the latest version of TahrPup is dated 21 Dec 2015 it will be approx 1.5 years older than the last updates for LM13 on April 2017 when support ends. So TahrPup is interesting, however, staying with LM13 is probably still the safer option.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by sphyrth »

If you can't let go of Maya, the best advice I could give is to keep it away from the internet. Just plug it off.
Otherwise just have to be extra extra careful when you're online.

I mean, that's what the support is for, right: security?
I have a favorite game. It's on my Youtube Channel.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Pjotr »

sphyrth wrote:that's what the support is for, right: security?
Not entirely, but mainly, yes.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Laugh2 »

Here's a summary of the distro's I've looked at in recent weeks for older machines. In each case the latest 32-bit versions were tested using a Live-USB, where possible with PAE enabled using "forcepae" otherwise the non-PAE version was used. Installation of some was attempted as noted below.

Ubuntu Based
  • LM13 (Kernel 3.2.0-23-generic from Live-USB)
    LM17.1, LM17.3
    LM18, LM18.1
    Lubuntu 16.10
    Xubuntu 16.04.1
    Peppermint 7
    Ubuntu 16.04.1 [added later]
    Ubuntu 14.04.5 [added later]
    PuppyLinux Tahr 6.0.5 pae (would not boot, couldn't "forcepae") [added later]
    PuppyLinux Tahr 6.0.5 no-pae (Kernel 3.14.56 from Live-USB) [added later]
Debian Based
  • LMDE 2
    Debian 8.7.1 MATE [added later]
    Bohdi 4.0.0
    LinuxBBQ Lunchtime
    LinuxBBQ Cream
    bl-Hydrogen (BunsenLabs Linux)
    CrunchBang
    CentOS 6.8 [added later]
    AntiX 16.1 [added later]
    MX-14.4 (based on the older Debian 7 Wheezy) [added later]
    MX-16 (based on the Debian Jessie) [added later]
ArchLinux Based
  • ArchLinux (command line)
    Manjaro xfce 16.10.3
    Manjaro kde 16.10.3
    ArchBang curve
    Parabola MATE, Parabola
    Bridge lxde/xfce/kde/gnome
Most versions used Linux Kernel 4 except some of the older ones such as LM13 (Kernel 3.2.0-23-generic) and PuppyLinux Tahr (Kernel 3.14.56).

Results
Ubuntu-Based distros all installed OK but showed the jerkiness described previously in both graphical and Grub's character based UI's. Only the older versions were different: LM13 worked perfectly. Ubuntu 14.04.5 worked but mouse movements were also not smooth, due probably to the demands of the GUI (this was not the regular seconds long "jerkiness" shown by the newer distros).

None of the Debian based distros finished booting from a Live-USB but crashed somewhere, so couldn't be tested EXCEPT for MX-16. LMDE 2 crashed repeating the error message "[xxx.xxxxxx] wistron_btns: unknown key code 10" continuously, as did other debian-based distros. I did very little troubleshooting; presumably someone with more experience could get some of these to install.

[Added later] Debian 8.7.1 was interesting showing both the wistron_btns error and a graphical desktop. Refer my posting below on 12/2/2017.

[Added later] MX14.4 non-pae took a while to go through its startup but the screen went blank when the GUI started. It took approx. 10min to appear again and more minutes before mouse and keyboard responded, even then so slowly as not to be useable. (I couldn't get MX14.4 pae to start as it wouldn't accept "forcepae", which is a pity as this laptop has pae even though not flagged.)

[Added later] MX-16 got far enough to show a graphical desktop then seemed to freeze, but after a long pause it finished building the desktop. Once operating CPU loading was around 70% but mouse operation was a bit jerky although much less so than the latest Ubuntu based distros. Installing MX-16 to the harddisk made startup much better but the jerkiness was worse, becoming similar to LM17.x and LM18.

The ArchLinux distros ran well from the Live-USB showing good performance and low RAM usage except for Manjaro, which was slow. Unfortunately I was only able to get Manjaro to install to the hard disk (with difficulties), all the others had various issues during installation e.g. unable to install Grub. Again, I did very little troubleshooting and presumably someone with more experience could get some of these to install.

Manjaro xfce installed to the hard disk and had good mouse response, unfortunately programs started very, very slowly. (Manjaro kde ran into issues with Intel's i915 graphics driver and crashed repeatedly.)

So meanwhile I'll stay with LM13 on this backup machine until I can find a newer distro. Perhaps I should add a virus/bot checker to help with security?

Conclusions
LM13 was the only distro to install without issues and run well showing low CPU usage, rapid mouse response, and good program performance. This is presumably is why Mint is so popular (on suitable hardware Mint's newer versions are great too). Thank you, Clem and all other involved!

The Linux 4 kernel is not the problem as Archlinux's distros use it and perform well from Live-USBs. The problem seems to lie somewhere early in the boot sequence since jerkiness is also seen in Grub's character based menus.

Any ideas how this jerkiness can be resolved with new version of Mint (or other Ubuntu based distros), anyone?

Hardware
  • Acer Travelmate 2303LM
    RAM 2GB (graphics 32MB, set in bios)
    CPU Intel Celeron M 340 32bit
    Graphics Intel 852GM/855GM x86/MMX/SSE2
Last edited by Laugh2 on Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:12 pm, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by RolandFrank »

Hello.

What about trying your luck with Puppy Linux ?.
Tharpup 6.0.5 (32 bit) based on Ubuntu 14.04 seems to fit your needs ...

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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Habitual »

Laugh2 wrote:Do nothing?
I was replying to the OP and to anyone else who waits until the last minute.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Laugh2 »

What about trying your luck with Puppy Linux ?.
Tharpup 6.0.5 (32 bit) based on Ubuntu 14.04 seems to fit your needs ...
Thanks for the suggestion, Roland. I had tried Puppy Linux e.g. refer posting of 24/1/17 but now I searched further for an updating schedule. It does seem to have updates. Since it is based on Ubuntu 14 presumably updates end in April 2019 too. So perhaps this could indeed succeed LM13 albeit for (only?) two years.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by RolandFrank »

Hello.

Depending on what you want to do with the computer you could also consider running Damn small Linux or even XPUD.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Pjotr »

RolandFrank wrote:Depending on what you want to do with the computer you could also consider running Damn small Linux or even XPUD.
Both of these are dead, and therefore highly insecure when connected to the internet....
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Laugh2 »

Depending on what you want to do with the computer you could also consider running Damn small Linux or even XPUD.
Thanks, RolandFrank and Pjotr. Currently I'm sticking with LM13 with updated programs and firewall for a while. This way "only" the operating system is slowly out-of-date. Still considering PuppyLinux, which seems still to be updating but is quite a bit different to LM13 (which does normal light duties satisfactorily and is OK as backup).
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by RHTopics »

Here are two more distributions for your consideration:

- CentOS 6.8

This Red Hat Linux clone has support until November 2020.
Linux kernel 2.6.32
Gnome 2.x Desktop
Live CD is available

- AntiX 16.1

Debian based
Designed to support old hardware
Latest version came out last month
The full version comes with LibreOffice
Live CD

You can go to distrowatch.com to learn more about these distros.

I was in a similar situation with a desktop computer running xubuntu 12.04.5.
It died on me last month. Being 13 years old with obsolete hardware, it was
not worth the money and effort to bring it back to life.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by JerryF »

To wim1966:

If versions 17 or 18 don't work for you, try Linux Lite. It has very basic minimum system requirements and is similar to Mint.

https://www.linuxliteos.com/
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Laugh2 »

Thanks for your suggestions, RHTopics. I tried both OS using LiveUSBs:

CentOS 6.8-32bit refused to start as it couldn't find PAE, nor would it accept "forcepae". Frustrating as this CPU has PAE although not flagged. (I didn't create a custom non-PAE distro as described by http://www.digitage.co.uk/digitage/libr ... e-hardware.)

AntiX 16.1-32bit looked interesting but gave a blank screen at the end of booting when the X Display Manager "slim" was started (after "restoring service links"). The Safe Video and Failsafe Boot options gave a scrambled screen instead of a blank screen, so also not successful. [Added later] "Forcepae" seemed to be accepted, but since AntiX 16.1 doesn't ship with a pae kernel it appears this was ignored.


MX-14.4 (a variant of AnitX) is found at https://distrowatch.com/?newsid=08858, and MX-16 is found at https://mxlinux.org/download-links. I described their partial success in my posting of 29/1/2017 above.

So LM13 and Puppy Linux still seem the only distros tested, which could help this backup laptop work into the future.
Last edited by Laugh2 on Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by anticapitalista »

Laugh2 wrote: ...

MX-16 (based on the older Debian 7 Wheezy) [added later][/list]
MX-16 is based on Debian Jessie not wheezy and antiX-16 does not ship with a pae kernel.
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Re: What after April 2017 (end of support for Maya)?

Post by Laugh2 »

MX-16 is based on Debian Jessie not wheezy
... aargh, that comes from trialling multiple live-USB's, including MX14.4 and MX-16. I've made a correction above. Thank you for pointing this out.
antiX-16 does not ship with a pae kernel.
... which will explain why adding "forcepae" made no difference. Again, thanks. (I've added a comment above.)
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