Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

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Doruletz
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Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby Doruletz » Sat May 27, 2017 2:31 pm

Title says it all...
Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???
Since the Mint Team is so secretive about release dates, and has not offered a way to download and test a Beta or even an Alpha or a daily build, I'm asking this question here, hoping that someone will know...
What do I think about Window$??? Just take a look at my AVATAR...

AJ1000
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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby AJ1000 » Sat May 27, 2017 2:36 pm

Looking at the roadmap it is 1.18.

https://github.com/linuxmint/Roadmap

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby Doruletz » Sat May 27, 2017 3:21 pm

AJ1000 wrote:Looking at the roadmap it is 1.18.

https://github.com/linuxmint/Roadmap


@"AJ1000":

GREAT, thanks a lot.
You wouldn't happen to know if I can download Mint 18.2 MATE anywhere just to try it out until whenever they decide to finally release it???
What do I think about Window$??? Just take a look at my AVATAR...

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby Cosmo. » Sat May 27, 2017 4:27 pm

As long as it is not even provided in beta state, it is alphaware, suitable for those, who want to commit their code. If it gets provided and announced as beta, that it is just that.

There is indeed an official answer about the question, when it will be released: "When it's ready". This means: at now it is not ready.

BTW: the default font is good readable, no need to blow it up.

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby Doruletz » Sat May 27, 2017 5:11 pm

Cosmo. wrote:As long as it is not even provided in beta state, it is alphaware, suitable for those, who want to commit their code. If it gets provided and announced as beta, that it is just that.

There is indeed an official answer about the question, when it will be released: "When it's ready". This means: at now it is not ready.

BTW: the default font is good readable, no need to blow it up.


Cosmo, thanks for your answer.
Unfortunately, the "When it's ready" release time is very vague, and does not actually answer the question. While I totally understand the fact that the Mint Team is not as big as Canonical, at least a ballpark release date guesstimate would be preferred by most users.
Something like (for example) around June 20th will sound more professional than "When it's ready"
Anyhow, since we have no say in the matter, i guess all we can do is wait for whenever it will be ready.
Last but not least, I still think that releasing even an Alpha or a daily build to the users for testing might prove beneficial for ironing out eventual bugs and such before the official "When it's ready" release date....
What do I think about Window$??? Just take a look at my AVATAR...

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby Cosmo. » Sat May 27, 2017 5:29 pm

Releasing an alpha version will lead to the result, that the team will have to deal much more with replies, that take only time. If I only take the number of bug reports and questions, where even the most basic system info is missing, than it is a thing of some simple maths, that the release date will delay for weeks. No, nobody would get an improvement by that. If I only would list all posts, where I asked for the basic specs, it would take endless pages to list them and the according time to read them and even more time for waiting for the answer and some more time to read the complaint of the user again (which might have possibly been solved in the meantime), so that without waste of time there would be no improvement.

You are registered here for 7 years. So you are expected to know, that from experience somewhere in the next 2 months the next version will arrive. I am quite sure, that even Clem does not know more.

I would understand the question, if there would be an urgent need for it.. But we have 6 Mint versions with Mate, each with 2 architectures (the same for the other desktops) and they work.

On the other hand there is a long thread about issues with Mate 1.18. Now I request by you: Give us immediately the technical solution to solve all the trouble. You cannot? Understandable. But you can be perfectly sure, that the Mate developers would not have released the build, if they would have been aware beforehand about the issues. Now things have to get fixed and predicting the needed time and guaranteeing, that those fixes do not open new issues is not possible - not in the real world.

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby Doruletz » Sat May 27, 2017 7:03 pm

Cosmo. wrote:Releasing an alpha version will lead to the result, that the team will have to deal much more with replies, that take only time. If I only take the number of bug reports and questions, where even the most basic system info is missing, than it is a thing of some simple maths, that the release date will delay for weeks. No, nobody would get an improvement by that. If I only would list all posts, where I asked for the basic specs, it would take endless pages to list them and the according time to read them and even more time for waiting for the answer and some more time to read the complaint of the user again (which might have possibly been solved in the meantime), so that without waste of time there would be no improvement.

You are registered here for 7 years. So you are expected to know, that from experience somewhere in the next 2 months the next version will arrive. I am quite sure, that even Clem does not know more.

I would understand the question, if there would be an urgent need for it.. But we have 6 Mint versions with Mate, each with 2 architectures (the same for the other desktops) and they work.

On the other hand there is a long thread about issues with Mate 1.18. Now I request by you: Give us immediately the technical solution to solve all the trouble. You cannot? Understandable. But you can be perfectly sure, that the Mate developers would not have released the build, if they would have been aware beforehand about the issues. Now things have to get fixed and predicting the needed time and guaranteeing, that those fixes do not open new issues is not possible - not in the real world.


@Cosmo:
My need is not urgent, but I would just love to be able to use the new MATE 1.18 Desktop.
From what I read, it is based on GTK3+ as opposed to the previous MATE versions which were GTK2+, thus installing it in either Mint 18 or 18.1 would most likely create problems.
I installed the new MATE 1.18 Desktop in a VirtualBox installation of Ubuntu MATE 16.04.2 and it works, not perfect, but it works. Now I don't know if the 1 or 2 kinks I experienced are due to the new MATE 1.18 Desktop or to the VM install itself. I use VM to play with Distros, but I know it will never be the same as a proper HDD/SSD install.
And the 2 months is not always that. For most of the previous editions it used to be just over a month from the Ubuntu release date.
What do I think about Window$??? Just take a look at my AVATAR...

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby laederlappen » Sat May 27, 2017 8:44 pm

From what I read, it is based on GTK3+ as opposed to the previous MATE versions which were GTK2+


1.18 is Gtk3 only.
Previous versions of Mate, I believe since 1.10 (June 2015), support Gtk2 and Gtk3.
For example, when you look at Mint 18.1 - Caja is Gtk2, Mate-Terminal and Firefox are Gtk3.

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby AJ1000 » Sun May 28, 2017 4:19 am

I think it is ready as it is in the 'Linux Mint 18.2 [Implemented]' section in the roadmap. I have tried Mate 1.18 using a Manjaro Mate release, it works great and is not beta.

http://tipsonubuntu.com/2017/03/15/inst ... ntu-16-04/ Might work for you but I have not tried it.

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby Hoser Rob » Sun May 28, 2017 11:10 am

INstalling a beta or (ugh!) alpha release of a Linux distro is something that ONLY the highly skiilled should even consider.

And none of the highly skilled Linux people I know would do such a thing unless they were forced to. You can fully expect crashes, and I mean big crashes not the usual nicely handled Linux crashes. And since alpha/beta releases are unsupported, by definition, you'll be largely on your own when you have to fix your broken OS.

There are just tons of threads started on these forums by noobs who use an LTS release and can't understand why they don't get the latest software. Well, that's just Linux. That's the way it works.

If you want stability ... and I've always used LTS releases unless I had to do otherwise for hardware support ... then you have to sacrifice getting the newest version o9f everything.

If you want the newest everything you'll have to use a true rolling release like Arch. But those are just not suited to beginners. Updates break things on a pretty regular basis and the support forums for these rolling releases don't do a lot of noob hand holding. You have to know how to handle these things yourself.

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby DAMIEN1307 » Sun May 28, 2017 3:33 pm

hi folks...just adding my 2 cents worth...i do not understand why folks seem so eager for the latest, glitziest, shiniest, newest, most advanced or whatever we call it these days...the reason i kissed of microcrap windbloes was precisely to get away from all of that garbage with all of the bugs, glitches, faulty updates, viruses, worms, malware, etc. that just inherently follows...im just so grateful to finally have a great, solid, dependable, full featured operating system that just works and never ever fails me...im running both LM cinnamon 18.1 serena and LM xfce 18.1 on 2 different computers at home and loving it...i could not care any less myself if they keep putting out new versions constantly like microsoft as long as the systems remain safe and stable and LTS as they are right now...as far as im concerned it can stay at 18.1 just so long as its still updated just as it is now for the usual 5 yrs offered on an LTS version...why be in such a hurry for constant change...enjoy and be happy for already having the best of the best operating system available and enjoy security and the stability of an already outstanding product...DAMIEN

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby MintBean » Sun May 28, 2017 4:33 pm

The bottom line is just like Rob said- if you want cutting edge, run a rolling release like Arch but be prepared for the potential issues that come with that. You pays your money (or not in the case of FOSS), you takes your choice.

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby Doruletz » Mon May 29, 2017 2:26 am

AJ1000 wrote:I think it is ready as it is in the 'Linux Mint 18.2 [Implemented]' section in the roadmap. I have tried Mate 1.18 using a Manjaro Mate release, it works great and is not beta.

http://tipsonubuntu.com/2017/03/15/inst ... ntu-16-04/ Might work for you but I have not tried it.


With Linux Mint 18 Sarah MATE it does not, I tried it....
I mean it installs OK, runs, but some things like panels, etc look funny. Also it did crashed one time too...
I followed the whole tutorial in your link, including the uninstall / reverse to older version 1.14 that comes in my Mint 18 Sarah.
As soon as I reverted to the default MATE 1.14 everything works perfect, just as it did before.
I fooled around with Ubuntu MATE 17.04 Zesty Zapus for a while, in a Virtualbox install, that one comes with MATE 1.18 by default. It is OK, everything runs as it should, but I don't really want to ever go back to Ubuntu, so I guess the only option is to wait for the "When it's ready" release date for Mint 18.2 Sonya...
What do I think about Window$??? Just take a look at my AVATAR...

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Re: Anybody knows if Mint 18.2 Sonya will have MATE 1.18 or 1.16 ???

Postby Doruletz » Mon May 29, 2017 3:01 am

DAMIEN1307 wrote:hi folks...just adding my 2 cents worth...i do not understand why folks seem so eager for the latest, glitziest, shiniest, newest, most advanced or whatever we call it these days...the reason i kissed of microcrap windbloes was precisely to get away from all of that garbage with all of the bugs, glitches, faulty updates, viruses, worms, malware, etc. that just inherently follows...im just so grateful to finally have a great, solid, dependable, full featured operating system that just works and never ever fails me...im running both LM cinnamon 18.1 serena and LM xfce 18.1 on 2 different computers at home and loving it...i could not care any less myself if they keep putting out new versions constantly like microsoft as long as the systems remain safe and stable and LTS as they are right now...as far as im concerned it can stay at 18.1 just so long as its still updated just as it is now for the usual 5 yrs offered on an LTS version...why be in such a hurry for constant change...enjoy and be happy for already having the best of the best operating system available and enjoy security and the stability of an already outstanding product...DAMIEN


Very well said, Damien. Excellent thinking. I'm also not a very big fan of change just the sake of change.
Like that old and wise American saying goes... "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT!!!".
I do however like some of the new things, especially when they are better and add more features and better looks.
Since I only use the MATE desktop ever since Mint 13 Maya MATE, I would love to have the newest MATE 1.18, since it is a big stepping stone, being based entirely on the GTK+ 3, as opposed to all previous versions.
I also stick to the LTS versions. I mean I do fool around with intermediary releases and other distros in a Virtualbox live disc or install, but as far as my main OS goes, it is always an LTS.
For example, for previous Mint releases I only used Mint 9 Isadora LTS (my favorite, by the way). God, I still miss Gnome 2....
I used Mint 10 Julia for a very little time as well, to be honest. Since Mint 11 and 12 where stuck in the middle of Gnome 2 end of life and finding alternatives to it, I never bothered with them, used Mint 9 until LTS support ended and jumped right to 13 Maya MATE for a year or so, until Mint 17 was released.
For Mint 17 series , I only used Mint 17 Qiana and 17.1 Rebecca, never even bothered with 17.2 and 17.3.
It is my strong opinion that the second release of the usual 4 release LTS cycle (the ".1") is usually the best and most stable.
The way I see it, the first LTS release is most of the time hurried up to meet release cycle and user demand, and the 3rd is more or less a testing ground or work in progress and preview for the upcoming new LTS series cycle. And since there is no significant advantage to re-install an OS every 6 months or so, I don't even bother with the second one.
Right now I'm still using Mint 18 LTS Sarah MATE, never got around to installing 18.1 Serena, but I will jump right in to 18.2 Sonya, mainly for the MATE 18.1 desktop.

I don't mean to criticize or offend anybody, but the Cinnamon desktop is something I never liked, just does not feel right to me... If it wasn't for MATE I would've abandoned Linux Mint just like I abandoned Ubuntu.
Which brings me to UNITY... Now that's something I hate with a passion, and I don't care how many people I offend by saying it!!!
Back in 2010, when I first started using Linux as my OS, I was back and forth between Ubuntu and Linux Mint for a while.
The minute they started Unity, I completely abandoned Ubuntu.
I want my desktop to look, feel and act like a COMPUTER DESKTOP, not a smart phone or tablet on steroids... Windows also did that, ever since Windows 8...
For my very few needs, I still have Windows 7 on one PC, as I would never even attempt to use Windows 8 or 10. Anyhow, I only log into Windows maybe once or twice a year, if even that...
KDE is something I also never liked either, to bloated and somehow not right for a PC Desktop, that's my opinion.
XFCE and LXDE I never used except to see what they look like. Most people say they're designed to bring old machines back to life, although I keep hearing lots of good things about XFCE.
To me, MATE is the best, almost as good as Gnome 2, which is what was intended by its creators.
What do I think about Window$??? Just take a look at my AVATAR...


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