The Face of Linux Mint Support

[catweazel]

It would be good if mods could keep a closer eye out for non-civil behaviour and make sure new users get treated well.

The forum mods here do a terrific job. IRC is a different beast altogether.

[sgtor]

I think that's just the nature of IRC, because it's such an immediate form of communication it's probably harder to change. Here on a forum people have time to think before they post and they know their post will be viewed and could be removed anytime after it's posted even years later. Forums used to be like that too but I just think it's easier to enforce rules on a forum.

I've also had the same experience on IRC and just didn't bother reporting the person. If they had said it on the forum a mod would have eventually seen it and deleted the post and given them a warning since it's against the forums rules.

[tinca]

Reading the replies I appear to be in a class of one.

In the first post by Tandriash he complains of some unknown person being rude to another person, and basically preaches “be good to everyone”.

A nice sentiment that obviously does not cover himself, as in his second post he calls the rude man a “prick”. To justify himself he gives us a definition of what the word means. In the context that he used it against the rude man it was used in a derogatory manner. That makes him no better than the man he is complaining about.

Tandriash then then gets upset and says “Someone sees fit to admonish me for trying to end a bad experience”, NO they did not, they told you to watch your language after you called rude man a “prick”

When I was younger I can imagine my mum’s response to me saying “mum that Mr Smith in the office was a bit rude to me today”, her reply would be barked back to me in an angry tone, “for Christ sake grow up”.

The complaint could and should have been reported to the admins who would have taken what steps they though were correct. It did NOT require a post in the forums.

Me personally, I can honestly say I have had NO problems at all using the forum and people should remember that all of the contributors do it for nothing. They are willing to share their time and knowledge with us all. If a reply is a bit waspy then maybe the person has some reason for it, who knows. He could have recently lost his wife, or his best friend, a dog he had since he was a child, or maybe he comes across as rude because that is how he is. It is unlikely that he sets out to be rude and upset people.

The rude man in question, seeing that he has been around for some years (according to Tandrias’s logs) must at some time helped me out., so thank you Mr Rude man.

Best regards Keith

[codenomics]

Being someone that has been on IRC for many a year now... That is just the nature of IRC.
This isn't a Mint exclusive thing, IRC is known for its rough edges and that is how it is. I would never recommend a brand new Linux (or anything else) user to go to an IRC channel and ask for help. That being said... The Mint IRC channels are, by far, the most welcoming channels I have been to in a long time.

[BG405]

IRC is not my thing, like some others here; prefer Forums where one can reply when ready, rather than being effectively tied to a single activity. Usualy have too much else going on to deal with live chat. I don't do PMs as a rule, either. However, I'll have a peek at the Mint IRC to see what's on offer, just out of interest.

IRC, being so immediate, mandates that the helper either has on hand all needed technical info related to the issue, or preferably already knows quite fluently how to solve such issues. It certainly seems that it's more of a challenge for the people contributing than it might be replying in the Forum. Time constraints with live chat may make disappearing to research something rather impractical. Or at least those are my thoughts.

I think there should be primary (or at least more) emphasis put on posting in the public Forum first, as the resulting threads can help others too.

[carum carvi]

Thinking back to when I started using Linux for the first time, 2 years ago, my first choice was to use Irc Linux Chat as well, because I thought I would get the fastest answer. But the fastest answer aint necessarily the best answer. Being a newbie I remember though how panicky I could get when I didnt understand the most basic things. An Irc Linux chat helped me out in a friendly way. I had tried an Irc Ubuntu chat as well, but I didnt get near as good as help there as I did get on the Linux Irc chat.

This forum has been very helpful to me. Very friendly people. I agree with BG405 , that maybe the LinuxMint forum could be mentioned to newbies as the first place to seek help, instead of Linux Irc chat.

[tomcashen]

Second that emotion. I can barely spell IRC. Live chat freaks me out.

This is a most excellent forum and for the most part you have to go digging for the hostility common on others.

[oldgranola]

old thread but not dead. Unless its work related, a problem on our home computers is not an emergency. Its a learning experience. Should have no sense of entitlement. A little patience, a little digging, at least allows for a useful question here usually resulting in something to try. As I learn, start thinking I know something, I have been taken to task for some of my statements, can argue back, but have never been abused on these forums. Being called wrong is not abuse. Buck up!

[JeremyB]

Thinking back to when I started using Linux for the first time, 2 years ago, my first choice was to use Irc Linux Chat as well, because I thought I would get the fastest answer. But the fastest answer aint necessarily the best answer. Being a newbie I remember though how panicky I could get when I didnt understand the most basic things. An Irc Linux chat helped me out in a friendly way. I had tried an Irc Ubuntu chat as well, but I didnt get near as good as help there as I did get on the Linux Irc chat.

This forum has been very helpful to me. Very friendly people. I agree with BG405 , that maybe the LinuxMint forum could be mentioned to newbies as the first place to seek help, instead of Linux Irc chat.

I think the chat room and the forums are linked on the Mint Welcome Screen but it is easier to get on chat as you don't need to register

[oldgranola]

Thinking back to when I started using Linux for the first time, 2 years ago, my first choice was to use Irc Linux Chat as well, because I thought I would get the fastest answer. But the fastest answer aint necessarily the best answer. Being a newbie I remember though how panicky I could get when I didnt understand the most basic things. An Irc Linux chat helped me out in a friendly way. I had tried an Irc Ubuntu chat as well, but I didnt get near as good as help there as I did get on the Linux Irc chat.

This forum has been very helpful to me. Very friendly people. I agree with BG405 , that maybe the LinuxMint forum could be mentioned to newbies as the first place to seek help, instead of Linux Irc chat.

I think the chat room and the forums are linked on the Mint Welcome Screen but it is easier to get on chat as you don't need to register

I think the thing with JeremyB's post to take home is that the fastest answer aint necessarily the best answer. In chat, certainly not the most enduring. I 've gotten good help from things posted years go. Don't use chat much, with a little digging ya'll don't need hand holding.

[XP-refugee]

Having experienced the brand-killing responses of some volunteers (not on LM) I know what the OP is addressing.

It would be good if mods could keep a closer eye out for non-civil behaviour and make sure new users get treated well.

Seems that English was not the first language for one of the volunteers quoted. And that they probably had a different understanding of "civility".
Looks like mods weren't up to scratch in keeping them in line.

you are assuming of course, that the UnPaid mods have the time to read every single post on a forum?

get real...... I am a moderator of a different forum, and there is no way in blazes that I can read every single post....

We rely on the "Report" symbol at the top of each post.
if you think a post is out of line, then tap the Report symbol.
that will send a PM to each mod, and one of them, will eventually read the post, and make a decision.

that decision may, or may not, go along with what you want to happen.

these are public forums, and the members live in just about every country on this planet, and we dang sure don't all think alike.

Nah, i'm assuming that efforts will be made to keep things nice and friendly for new users.

If IRC is inevitably a jungle red in tooth and claw then warning new users off it seems a sensible path.

[Pjotr]

If IRC is inevitably a jungle red in tooth and claw then warning new users off it seems a sensible path.

A thick skin and growing some claws of your own helps as well, on IRC.

The main disadvantage of IRC for me, is that it's too quick and imprecise. No time for composing a technically sound elaborate answer, nor opportunity to improve upon what you posted earlier.

IRC is mainly useful for "one on one" help, without a bunch of other jammers interfering with the help process. For the rest, IRC is just a tool for people who feel bored and lonely, to keep from really doing something about their loneliness and boredom.

[Moem]

That sounds very judgemental, and it's not true. Many groups use IRC to coordinate activities and communicate, much in the way that other groups use WhatsApp nowadays. It seems a bit over the top to conclude that all these people must be bored and lonely. I don't feel particularly bored and lonely... and I routinely use IRC.

[HaveaMint]

The little time I was on there I wasn't impressed with it from what I saw going on and what some were saying. A thick skin is for sure a requirement. The name calling was bad.

[idle]

I find this topic interesting. As a frequent user of such sites as 8chan, 4chan, Voat were there is practically zero moderation, yet these sites are extremely popular, where its a free for all on any topic. Thick skin, quick wit and the skill to hold your own in a situation are life skills that I personally deem very important. Yet I find the forever outraged and offended have an easier solution with warnings, bans and such (take Facebook, Twitter ..ect) as examples of weak minded people who want a world they can control "mean things" which is not reality at all. Its all a real eye opener to the state of the human psyche how people interact with each other. Much to be learned from observing and partaking in all diverse manner of conversation. I sense a lot of fear in people. I also sense a lot of frustration too. Outbursts, control, containment, who's who in the zoo ...Those who moderate are a very particular breed ...

[Joe2Shoe]

idle, right on the money!

[gm10]

examples of weak minded people who want a world they can control "mean things" which is not reality at all.

Nah, there's a time and place for everything. I can troll and flame with the best of them, I've also been moderating and leading communities, and over here I'm generally just relaxing while solving a problem or two. What you posted up there would be grade A flame bait in another setting but over here I just shrug it off.

There's nothing weak minded about wanting to have a civil conversation without some person struggling to feel important on the Internet slinging mud at you. The "forever offended" you mention are just the other side of the same coin. There are places where they can go at each other freely - you listed a few of them - and there's nothing wrong with that, it's only problematic when either of them try to ruin the mood elsewhere.

[Moem]

There's nothing weak minded about wanting to have a civil conversation without some person struggling to feel important on the Internet slinging mud at you.

I concur. And a 'zoo' is not the best place for offering technical support, especially to newcomers. Keeping it civil simply makes this forum more effective.

[DAMIEN1307]

hi Moem...ive been to quite a few great "zoos" in my own country and three others beside as well as a zoo just down the road from where i live.

i find the animals in the zoo much more civilised and well behaved than the humans that go there to view them...lol...DAMIEN

[rene]

i find the animals in the zoo much more civilised and well behaved than the humans that go there to view them...lol...DAMIEN

You in that case need to study non-human animals longer: all social interaction is fully hierarchy-based and for a very large majority of species very violently so. Only homo sapiens has --- to some degree, in some places and under non-demanding circumstances --- managed to lessen that a bit; to "civilise itself". The mere fact that we still suck doesn't change that.