The Many Distributions

Questions about the project and the distribution - obviously no support questions here please
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Alvin
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The Many Distributions

Post by Alvin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:17 am

Mine is Linux Mint 19.1 64 bit cinnamon. I find much to like about it: freedom from AV protection; quicker start-up and shut-down than Windows7; open source and more. There are also drawbacks: not all peripheral devices, printers, scanners, etc., are easy to install (eg Brother HL-2140) or work with all important features (eg Canon LIDE 120); documentation is not clear or thorough (LM Forum assistance often necessary).

In comparing with Windows, I note that Microsoft does not seem to offer so many varieties of OS. At this time, the key OS is Windows10. There is a business version and a home version. I don't think there are many other versions. Linux offers many versions of Ubuntu and of Linux. Why so many distributions? Doesn't the large number make difficult the documentation and the inclusion of peripheral software?

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Pjotr
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by Pjotr » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:23 am

Alvin wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:17 am
Why so many distributions?
Because it's free software and there's no boss. Welcome to the joyous anarchy of Linux! :lol:
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michael louwe
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by michael louwe » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:40 am

Alvin wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:17 am
Why so many distributions?
.
GNU/Linux was started by a tech-geek named Richard Stallman(founder of Free Software Foundation and FOSS) in the late 1980s, mainly to escape from the clutches of the duopoly of proprietary closed-source M$-Windows and Apple-MacOSX. Free/libre open-source GNU/Linux under the copy-left GNU/GPL license was created by tech-geeks for tech-geeks, not for average users. In comparison, M$-Windows and Apple-MacOSX were created by businessmen for average mass users, similar to today's Google-Android and Apple-iOS. Hence, only from Ubuntu 12.04 or 2012 onward, was GNU/Linux usable by the average users, and not only by tech-geeks.

FSF sponsored the creation of the 1st Linux distro, ie Debian in the early 1990s. Other Linux developers then pioneered the creation of Archlinux. Being free/libre open-source software, tech-geeks or Linux developers would soon create forks of Debian and Archlinux over differences of opinion or vision. As more Linux developers jump on the FOSS bandwagon, forking of Linux distros became like an epidemic = many Linux distros since the 2000s.

There are many free-of-cost Linux distros or FOSS but unfortunately very few Free Open Source Hardware(= many Non-free Closed-Source Hardware = NCSH) because software can be created by tech-geeks without any financial costs but not hardware. Hardware needs to be proprietary closed-source, in order for the manufacturers/creators to recoup their cost of investment/R&D. Hence, desktop Linux has many problems with hardware support.

Desktop Linux also does not have a viable business model.
.
.
P S - For expediency sake, Stallman used Linus's Linux kernel for his GNU Project in the early 1990s, in order to be able to release the 1st Linux distro, Debian asap. Unfortunately, the Linux kernel contains many freely-licensed but proprietary closed-source hardware device drivers(hidden as blobs), eg from Intel and AMD. In effect, GNU/Linux or Linux distros is not fully FOSS.
Last edited by michael louwe on Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Pjotr
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by Pjotr » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:42 am

michael louwe wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:40 am
Desktop Linux does not have a viable business model.
Bollocks. Ubuntu, Linux Mint, RHEL, SLED, ....
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by DAMIEN1307 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:48 am

michael louwe said,
GNU/Linux was started by a tech-geek named Richard Stallman(founder of Free Software Foundation and FOSS) in the late 1980s
'GNU/Linux was started...in the late 1980s' ?...i could be wrong, but was it not 1991 that the first linux kernel, hence the word "Linux", created by Linus Torvalds, first appear, and not the late 1980s ?...just curious...DAMIEN

EDIT...my understanding is the following:
GNU is a longstanding project begun in 1984, (not the late 80s), to develop a free operating system. It is argued that the Linux kernel wasn't independently created until 1991, by Linus Torvalds.
ORDO AB CHAO

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michael louwe
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by michael louwe » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:13 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:42 am
michael louwe wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:40 am
Desktop Linux does not have a viable business model.
Bollocks. Ubuntu, Linux Mint, RHEL, SLED, ....
.
The business revenue of RHEL and Ubuntu does not come from their desktop Linux, eg comes from Ubuntu Server and Ubuntu Advantage. Ubuntu depends on public donations also. As a business, Ubuntu is not doing well.
....... Desktop Linux Mint depends a lot on public donations, ie about US$11,000 per month.

What is SLED.? Santa Claus's business.?. :D

In comparison, desktop Windows has a very profitable business model, eg US$199 for each Retail desktop Windows 10 Pro license.

So, both desktop Ubuntu and LM do not have a viable business model.

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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by Pjotr » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:18 pm

michael louwe wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:13 pm
Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:42 am
michael louwe wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:40 am
Desktop Linux does not have a viable business model.
Bollocks. Ubuntu, Linux Mint, RHEL, SLED, ....
.
The business revenue of RHEL and Ubuntu does not come from their desktop Linux, eg comes from Ubuntu Server and Ubuntu Advantage. Ubuntu depends on public donations also. As a business, Ubuntu is not doing well.
....... Desktop Linux Mint depends a lot on public donations, ie about US$11,000 per month.

What is SLED.? Santa Claus's business.?. :D

In comparison, desktop Windows has a very profitable business model, eg US$199 for each Retail desktop Windows 10 Pro license.

So, both desktop Ubuntu and LM do not have a viable business model.
SLED: https://www.suse.com/products/desktop/features/

Why can't donations be a viable business model? Mint seems to be doing quite well, consistently, during many years.
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michael louwe
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by michael louwe » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:43 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:18 pm
SLED: https://www.suse.com/products/desktop/features/

Why can't donations be a viable business model? Mint seems to be doing quite well, consistently, during many years.
.
I do not think RHEL(= Red Hat Enterprise Linux) and SLE can be considered as desktop Linux because only subscribed enterprise users can download and run RHEL and SLE, whether as servers or desktops. The business revenue of Red Hat and Suse comes from tech support subscriptions by enterprises.

I do not think public donations can be considered as a business. Can male beggars be considered as businessmen.?

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Pjotr
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by Pjotr » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:17 pm

michael louwe wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:43 pm
Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:18 pm
SLED: https://www.suse.com/products/desktop/features/

Why can't donations be a viable business model? Mint seems to be doing quite well, consistently, during many years.
.
I do not think RHEL(= Red Hat Enterprise Linux) and SLE can be considered as desktop Linux because only subscribed enterprise users can download and run RHEL and SLE, whether as servers or desktops. The business revenue of Red Hat and Suse comes from tech support subscriptions by enterprises.
Bollocks again. Anyone can download them. But if you wish to get updates after the trial period, you have to pay.

I utterly fail to see why RHEL and SLED, could be disqualified as desktop Linux. They *are* desktop Linux. And they have a viable business model: customers pay for them, just like Microsoft customers pay for Windows.
michael louwe wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:43 pm
I do not think public donations can be considered as a business. Can male beggars be considered as businessmen.?
There are many thriving (charity and non-charity) foundations whose sole source of income stems from donations. By the same absurd logic, those foundations would be considered as beggars. Which they aren't.

Those foundations have a viable business model: they provide (usually immaterial) goods in exchange for donations. In a way, much like Linux Mint does.

Heck, there are even restaurants who don't put a price on their meals; they leave it entirely to the customers how much they wish to pay. :wink:

Long story short: your nonsensical claim that "desktop Linux has no viable business model" has been debunked.
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by rene » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:40 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:17 pm
Long story short [ ... ]
Oh, you wish...

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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by 8 ball » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:45 pm

Hardware support is baked in at the kernel level - not by distribution developers, so the number of distros has ZERO impact on the level of hardware support.
Windows has excellent hardware support because hardware manufacturers create Windows drivers for their products. In many instances, they don't do the same for Linux.

The diversity of Linux distributions is a strength, not a limitation in my opinion.

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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by michael louwe » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:25 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:17 pm
Bollocks again
Desktop Linux companies have a viable business model based on public donations like beggars are business-persons. The Year of Linux on the Desktop. What a joke.!

Soon, it will be the Year of Linux on Mobile. *sarcasm* What a joke again.!

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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by all41 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:53 pm

Perhaps so. Like a flea climbing an elephant's rump with amorous intentions

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michael louwe
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by michael louwe » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:09 am

8 ball wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:45 pm
The diversity of Linux distributions is a strength, not a limitation in my opinion.
If so, why did Ubuntu come out with Snaps that enable containerized apps to run on all Linux distros, like portable apps.? And why did Google come out with the (Linux-kernel-based)Android Anti-Fragmentation policy for her OEM partners.?

Fyi, a Linux app developer has to develop for the 3 main different package management system run by Debian, Archlinux and Red Hat and then maintain all 3 of them. Is that a strength of Linux distros.?

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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by Pjotr » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:36 am

michael louwe wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:25 pm
Soon, it will be the Year of Linux on Mobile. *sarcasm* What a joke again.!
Linux has already conquered mobile a long time ago. It's called Android.

Seems we haven't reached the end of your bollocks yet. More to come? :lol:
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by Moem » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:08 am

Mod note:
Gentlefolks, enough of that, now. You're getting way outside the scope of the question. Time to bring those hobby horses back to the stable.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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michael louwe
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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by michael louwe » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:19 am

Pjotr wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:36 am
michael louwe wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:25 pm
Soon, it will be the Year of Linux on Mobile. *sarcasm* What a joke again.!
Linux has already conquered mobile a long time ago. It's called Android.

Seems we haven't reached the end of your bollocks yet. More to come? :lol:
.
Conquered not by Linux but by Google. Where are the other major "Linux distros", ie Ubuntu Touch, Mozilla Firefox OS, Jolla Sailfish OS, Amazon Fire OS and Samsung Tizen OS.?

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Re: The Many Distributions

Post by ricardogroetaers » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:25 am

michael louwe wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:43 pm
.... Can male beggars be considered as businessmen.?
Do not have the slightest doubt.

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