Cinnamon and Mate advantages over XFCE

[milan777]

Hello team,

Let me propose a scenario for you:

Imagine a HP laptop, intel i3 processor, 3 GB RAM running mint XFCE.

It being super slow some times, making one want to throw it off the window.

Would that machine perform better should a different environment such as Mate or Cinnamon be installed?

Thx.

[Welcome]

Not in my experience. XFCE and Mate seems to give about the same level of performance. I think Cinnamon needs more processing power because it has more graphical features and sound effects.

What I've done to improve performance on older machines:
1. Replace HDD with SSD - fast boot, improves disk intensive program's performance.
2. Increase memory to maybe 8G or more - Improves memory intensive program's performance.
3. Upgrade CPU to faster chip, maybe more cores, depending on motherboard.

Costs?
1. 256GB SSD upgrade US $30-40 if lucky. Easy upgrade.
2. 8G memory upgrade (depends on speed and type) US $20-30 if lucky. Easy upgrade.
3. Older CPU prices are really crazy, but I've found some i7 quad core great deals as low as US $5 (before the pandemic). Now maybe $20-70. Expert level upgrade, and must use proper heat sink compounds and pads. (EDIT: Note: CPUs that can be used depends on motherboard and BIOS version)

Do you know why the laptop is slow at times? Could be some background program running. For example, the Update Manager might running update checks, or Timeshift might be backing up your system. Maybe Flatpak is updating. Or the "locate" / "search" system is updating it's database. Or maybe System Reports is running a check to look for problems.

To improve performance, some background programs can be switched from automatic to manual mode. Or the time that they run can be reconfigured so that they don't interfere as much. These changes are only recommended for expert users, since they could effect safety, features or timely updates.

[Petermint]

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxxxrz

So we know the details and do not have to imagine. You might also display the SMART data for your disk to make sure it is not running into write errors. SSDs slow down at 70 degrees, a reason to look at SMART data and clean your fan.

3 GB is fine for Linux. My 4 GB ran everything except Simplescan and Chrome. My other machine, 16 GB, runs Simplescan but is unlikely to run Chrome because Chrome is a monster.

Your applications use more than Linux. Run System Monitor or equivalent to see what is chewing up CPU and memory.

Cinnamon needs effects switched off when you do not have a big graphics card. Cinnamon with effects off is similar to MATE. If you want minimum GUI overhead, use Lmde. Overall, you are talking about only 300 MB. The wrong settings on your Web browser can waste 900 MB or more. What applications are running when the machine is slow?

[Hoser Rob]

Installling Cinnamon would certainly slow it down, no doubt in my book. By Linux standards it's just as bloated as WIndows and needs a lot of GPU power just by itself.

There was a time (before Xfce 4.10 or so I think) when Xfce was noticeably faster that Mate but I think they're about the same now.

That sounds like an old machine though, please paste (hypothetical?) text of the output of inxi -Fxz run in the terminal. The graphics card mayh be more of a problem than the RAM or CPU.

[Welcome]

Additionally, you might want to ensure swappiness is set to an appropriate value. There's already many really good posts about this, for example https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/328.

This is one of the first things I do to Linux computers. Here's my modified (using nano) version of how to set swappiness:

Swappiness fix

The swap tendency may have a value of 0 (fully off) to 100 (swap is constantly used).
First check the current tendency of your Ubuntu swap:

Code: Select all

cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness

Press Enter. Probably the tendency to swap 60, which is only for servers is a good value. For normal home use is far too high.
Reduce the swap tendency therefore as follows:

Code: Select all

sudo nano /etc/sysctl.conf

Add at the bottom of that text file, the following lines (copy and paste):

Code: Select all

#
# Reduce the swap tendency
vm.swappiness = 10

Save the text file.
Restart Your Computer: And now it's done at 10.
Home rule is a workable example Ram = 1 GB or more 10.
Less than 1 GB Ram = 1.

Finally, Petermint mentions a very good point. The problem could be hardware related. If the headsink is plugged with dust, your CPU could be overheating and that will seriously slow down your laptop! I've seen it many times on computers when I initially receive them for repair. Cleaning out the dust can make a big difference!

[antikythera]

XFCE developers admit that the current build is bloated. They go as far as saying KDE Plasma is actually lighter on resources due to the fact the KDE Project have more resources and developers working to optimise the code than XFCE Project.

If you want something lightweight but usable then check out LXQt (lubuntu) or one of the puppylinux or peppermint ISO instead.

The laptop processor is not the issue as such, cleaning is a valid suggestion though, as is that it may benefit from more RAM and an SSD. My i3-3110M happily runs Cinnamon but I have 16GB RAM (I run virtual machines) and an SSD installed.

[milan777]

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxxxrz

So we know the details and do not have to imagine. You might also display the SMART data for your disk to make sure it is not running into write errors. SSDs slow down at 70 degrees, a reason to look at SMART data and clean your fan.

3 GB is fine for Linux. My 4 GB ran everything except Simplescan and Chrome. My other machine, 16 GB, runs Simplescan but is unlikely to run Chrome because Chrome is a monster.

Your applications use more than Linux. Run System Monitor or equivalent to see what is chewing up CPU and memory.

Cinnamon needs effects switched off when you do not have a big graphics card. Cinnamon with effects off is similar to MATE. If you want minimum GUI overhead, use Lmde. Overall, you are talking about only 300 MB. The wrong settings on your Web browser can waste 900 MB or more. What applications are running when the machine is slow?

[milan777]

Additionally, you might want to ensure swappiness is set to an appropriate value. There's already many really good posts about this, for example https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/328.

This is one of the first things I do to Linux computers. Here's my modified (using nano) version of how to set swappiness:

Swappiness fix

The swap tendency may have a value of 0 (fully off) to 100 (swap is constantly used).
First check the current tendency of your Ubuntu swap:

Code: Select all

cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness

Press Enter. Probably the tendency to swap 60, which is only for servers is a good value. For normal home use is far too high.
Reduce the swap tendency therefore as follows:

Code: Select all

sudo nano /etc/sysctl.conf

Add at the bottom of that text file, the following lines (copy and paste):

Code: Select all

#
# Reduce the swap tendency
vm.swappiness = 10

Save the text file.
Restart Your Computer: And now it's done at 10.
Home rule is a workable example Ram = 1 GB or more 10.
Less than 1 GB Ram = 1.

Finally, Petermint mentions a very good point. The problem could be hardware related. If the headsink is plugged with dust, your CPU could be overheating and that will seriously slow down your laptop! I've seen it many times on computers when I initially receive them for repair. Cleaning out the dust can make a big difference!

thank you very much for the recommendations

Just did that, now waiting for the results, thank you

[milan777]

There are some useless processes that are nagging the memory and CPU usage.

That's bashtop showing what is going on when I log in. PIDs 1418 and 1874 are using 6.1% of memory, I'd like to get rid of those, what is the smartest way to do it?

[antikythera]

Presumably you installed kite and vmware for a reason. Those daemon services should be left alone or they won't work.

[mr_raider]

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxxxrz

So we know the details and do not have to imagine. You might also display the SMART data for your disk to make sure it is not running into write errors. SSDs slow down at 70 degrees, a reason to look at SMART data and clean your fan.

3 GB is fine for Linux. My 4 GB ran everything except Simplescan and Chrome. My other machine, 16 GB, runs Simplescan but is unlikely to run Chrome because Chrome is a monster.

Your applications use more than Linux. Run System Monitor or equivalent to see what is chewing up CPU and memory.

Cinnamon needs effects switched off when you do not have a big graphics card. Cinnamon with effects off is similar to MATE. If you want minimum GUI overhead, use Lmde. Overall, you are talking about only 300 MB. The wrong settings on your Web browser can waste 900 MB or more. What applications are running when the machine is slow?

inxi03-min.png

That's a fairly recent machine. Your problem is not XFCE or RAM. It's the slow rotational drive. Switch to an SSD. No point swapping desktops.

[Hoser Rob]

XFCE developers admit that the current build is bloated. They go as far as saying KDE Plasma is actually lighter on resources due to the fact the KDE Project have more resources and developers working to optimise the code than XFCE Project.....

Some may be surprised by this but it's true. I run both and KDE 5 takes up about the same RAM as Xfce and the performance is similar. I still can;'t believe Mint dropped KDE.

[mr_raider]

XFCE developers admit that the current build is bloated. They go as far as saying KDE Plasma is actually lighter on resources due to the fact the KDE Project have more resources and developers working to optimise the code than XFCE Project.....

Some may be surprised by this but it's true. I run both and KDE 5 takes up about the same RAM as Xfce and the performance is similar. I still can;'t believe Mint dropped KDE.

That may be. But a Broadwell chip with 4 gigs of RAM should be able run XFCE with ease. I have old i3 23xx series laptops running heavier stuff.

I maintain that the performance issue is not DE related.

[Hoser Rob]

I've seen swappiness mentioned here a bunch of times, lowering that is useful but not a panacea. It certainly is not going to magically make a slow machine fast. Actually, on my old "kicking around" netbook, which is really pretty damn slow, the performance is best with swappiness set to 40. Experiment.

[SomeDudeInAZ]

FWIW,

I have an older desktop (Dell Vostro 260s) running a i3-2120 with the

The only upgrades I've done is go from 4 to 8 gb ram (the dell uses the built in intel video) back when still running win7 on it and added a ssd (mushkin).

I've had no problems running anything on it - win 7, cinnamon, mate, or xfce.

[Petermint]

My Cinnamon, with effects switched off, is running on a processor 3 years older and 25% slower.

Your hard disk is old and the current equivalent is $80 in our local shops. A reliable SSD replacement is only $130 and is 5 ~ 10 times faster. SSDs do not break when you bump your laptop, the most common failure for rotating rusty iron disks. Your battery will last longer.

While replacing the disk, you can clean out the fan, the second most common problem with laptops.