Hurt my feelings and probably sound like whining for nothing...

[robsku]

I've used to all kinds of behaviour on internet, especially on IRC, but I liked #linuxmint-help, although more often than not nobody could help with my questions - but I managed to help some that others didn't know about either.

This is an official Linux Mint help-channel, as I have understood, so what happened felt weird. I asked a question if it's some brilliant new idea for programs to offer documentation only on online format, no man page, no info page, no help-viewer format (don't know what format it uses, but it's graphical and has hyper-text with images supported - basically an op of this channel should know the default help viewer and also, since Mint by default, is targeted on desktops and there even isn't an install image for install without graphical desktop environment. His first advice was man pages, and some strange theory of meaning of online... Let me quote my question, and his first answers:

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0426 < Sir_Robin> hey - someone tell me, is this really what developers have decided to do rather than provide local manuals, or are there some separate packages you can install to *not* get those "Do you want to view this manual online?" popups? I don't! No! That's why man, info and the graphical Help applications are! I'm guessing no?

I don't know if his seen a popup like I described in a console application, because his first response was:

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0427 <@djph> Sir_Robin: er, what?
0427 <@djph> use the manpage?
0428 <@djph> Sir_Robin: note that "online" (at least in UNIX and UNIX-likes) tends to mean the digital manpage (or gnu infopage) locally installed to the  machine; not necessarily "something on some website"
0428 <@djph> this is opposed to the "offline" manual (7 or 8 4" thick 3-ring binders)

Now his definitions of online and offline I couldn't care less, but had he read me question? This is an operator of official help channel... Of distribution that targets mainly graphical desktop users. Bear that in mind, for next:

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0451 < Sir_Robin> djph: umm, lately I've noticed many XFCE, Gnome or just GTK (also some Qt/KDE apps possibly) having no local help available - Normally if I choose help from menu, many applications still (like gedit) show the graphical help-browser, but more and more just confirm if you want to open the online documentation (and no, there's no other option, except cancel viewing help) - today one app ...
0451 < Sir_Robin> = ...actually didn't even say "Documentation" under Help-menu - it said "Online Documentation"
0451 <@djph> no idea then, GUI stuff is all a wasteland

GUI stuff is all a wasteland? If his job (which seems to be most that he does, but I've had no quarrels with him - he has seemed like a nice guy, I actually liked him, which is weird since I barely know anything about him. But should he be answering to people asking on an official help channel of this distro that "GUI stuff is all a wasteland"?

I tried, but soon my behaviour wasn't at it's best either. However I was just being sarcastic, because he was truthfully being obnoxious, having missed not only content of my question but apparently also the nature of this distro and meaning of that channel - he tried to put this on me, for not specifically mentioning I was talking of graphical programs. Of course at this point I had already made it extremely clear, as you can see from quotes - I was trying to calmly explain the problem, and his response was "GUI is wasteland", and then he blames me for not first stating I was talking about GUI. I had when he said that, but let's continue:

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0451 < Sir_Robin> I'm talking of growing amount of GUI desktop applications, at least those I have on Mint XFCE
0453 < Sir_Robin> pffft - are you teasing me? You knew I was talking about GUI app, no? I know man, info and  mentioned the GUI help application, why did yoiu even answer if.... never mind.... help channel my...s
0454 < Sir_Robin> I'm going to forums
0454 <@djph> nope, you didn't specify GUI at first
0455 <@djph> or if you did, it was slipped in there after man and info and i just missed it.  but sure, let's go straight to "people are just screwing with me

I had been fully polite and explained my meaning in greater detail already, I don't know what this here is? Is he trying to act like he is a victim of me behaving badly? I was frustrated already, then I got sarcastic, I don't sensor this. I think it was at thin point more than justifiable - he said I didn't specify GUI first, which shouldn't even matter, but for that I thought he would understand that this is reference to that "at first", the message I started with:

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0455 < Sir_Robin> yeah, I was talking about graphical help viewer that we all use in console... runs on svgalib AND framebuffer
0456 <@djph> 'graphic... wha
0456 <@djph> "man" and "info" aren't graphical by any stretch of the imagination.

Following line is me genuinely not understanding that he totally missed my sarcasm:

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0456 < Sir_Robin> where didi I claim they were?
0456 < Sir_Robin> show?
0457 <@djph> uh, you literally just said "I was talking about graphical help we all use in console" ...
0457 <@djph> ... I have no idea what you're actually asking after anymore.

The two last lines show that he had no idea in the first place. I mentioned the graphical Help viewer in the question, right at the beginning. Not that this is needed - his an op, his mocking me, his mocking GUI and the channel is #linuxmint-help. It's really the.... NOOO, I don't know, this seems so odd behaviour, and his talked to me before, he knows he doesn't have to explain the difference between a man page or info page and a frigging book - but I've never heard a book called "offline documentation" (I can imagine it though... maybe it has... When Unix fit on a PDP-11. I didn't exist before December 1979, and it took 11 years until I got my computer - and thankfully got from lower elementary school (or primary school) to higher elementary (or junior high school - there are various translations and none perfect, because the school systems are different; we have 6 grades in the "kiddie school" and then 7th to 9th grades we go to big boys school. That's the mandatory part, after that you can even drop out, if you're stupid, smart or talented enough, but 7th grade meant IT classes, and it meant mathbooks that had BASIC programs, just simple mathematical examples. They didn't teach or even mention them and I doubt nobody else than I understood anything - I know program QBASIC, it looked like editor, but you loaded it to bay GORILLAS.BAS or NIBBLES.BAS, I realized what this was. And luckily they weren't for some Arcane 8-bit thing, even the one simple graphical program worked - it was probably written for GWBASIC, for DOS.
QBASIC was one of the first applications that had built-in documentation. Actually, a manual, but we called books that had documentation of program manuals, documentation was documentation whether on book or inside a program.

Was that relevant? I don't think it was, it was good reminiscing in memories for me, but relevant? I believe just as relevant as his speech of offline meaning a book and online something that's stored on computer. I don't know if his even made sense, maybe the words were sometime used that way, but I've never heard of such in all my reading about computers and their history before I existed even.

Here's the rest:

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0457 < Sir_Robin> I was referring to my original comment which you claimed I mentioned no GUI at all
0457 < Sir_Robin> it was sarcasm
0458 < theproffesor> you make very little sense
0458 <@djph> ... in either event, I'm out.
0458 <@djph> good luck
0458 < Sir_Robin> no continue if you want, I still haven't finished setting up my self-hosted cloud
0502 < Sir_Robin> theproffesor: if you meant my first question, it was perfectly sensical - the nonsense started when he didn't realize I wasn't talking about console and started calling GUI a wasteland; same guy always tells people this is for seeking help, not for chat - I didn't know mocking    Linux Mint (which by default is GUI desktop OS) user interface development on linuxmint-help channell... weird.
0503 < Sir_Robin> this channell is useless for real help
0503 -!- Sir_Robin [robsku@SpotChat-d60f11.kapsi.fi] has left #linuxmint-help []

NOTE! I don't want him out - but maybe he should be explained how to act as an operator of your excellent distros official help-channels moderator/op. Just, don't kick him or take his position, please

[Moonstone Man]

I've used to all kinds of behaviour on internet, especially on IRC

Then you would know that the internet and the personal interaction services that use it are no place for petunias.

[Peter_Minty]

rob, I've tried a number of times with Linux and found without question the help forums are awash with obnoxious people. I think it's those who sit all day at their computer waiting for someone to pounce on, as if they are some superior guru. The usual replies to a person's questions is. 1. some cryptic Linux code, 2. mock the users' computer. 3. others then join in with more useless sarcastic comments. All of which indicate poor social skills.

A few years ago I tried a Raspberry Pi, it runs a special version of linux, aimed at a wider audience. The unit is really good, I was very surprised and pleased to read the various forums were really respectful and helpful!! That advanced my knowledge on linux a long way in a short period of time.

I've also found chat rooms are a strange place, especially international because there are so many different types of characters from different cultures. It is far easier to be misunderstood and some people prefer to align with the devil. So this is usually a pointless place to visit.

Having said all that, from my experience with Raspberry Pi I've learnt Linux is such a big variable, an install varies from machine to machine in just about every way! I now understand why "helpers" ask for full machine spec and thankfully there is a tool to gather up the info.
Due to linux being rather and open and fully customisable system, I can appreciate there will be a lot of genuine long term users, who generally have no time for beginners, just the way it is. The first step they expect is for a person to have done a thorough search on the problem. Then come with a full and technically accurate presentation of the issue. It's then easy to sort the clowns from the true expert. The latter will give a clear an easy to understand proposal of a solution. Not everyone has that skill.

There is no justification for a person to be insulting, that just shows they are socially inept. There's enough bad things happening in the world right now.

[Moem]

Mod note:
This forum is where you can ask non-technical questions about Linux Mint, it's not where you can complain about the behaviour of others, no matter who.