Debian as Base

Questions about the project and the distribution - obviously no support questions here please
AndrewH
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by AndrewH »

frank392 wrote:@AndrewH
I doubt the end user is going to notice
speak for yourself.

ubuntu is one of the most buggy distros ever!!!!
Do Ubuntu's bugs carry over to Mint?

frank392
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by frank392 »

Do Ubuntu's bugs carry over to Mint?
well at least we agree that Ubuntu is buggy as hell :D

And yes to your question , Clem and the rest of the team member they try to do a great job controlling some of the mayor problems.
If you want to paint a picture do you start with a clean canvas or dirty one?
Last edited by frank392 on Tue May 11, 2010 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MALsPa
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by MALsPa »

frank392 wrote:is there any chance that we can move from ubuntu to Debian PLEASE!!!!!
frank392 wrote:If Ubuntu was so good, Way do we have mintupdate??.....aha....thank you :D
frank392 wrote:UBUNTU IS HORRIBLE. have fun fixing bug.
until mint fixes that mistake ( to be base on ubuntu ) i'll continue to be a happy, very happy PClinuxOS 2010 user (it is a fantastic release)
frank392 wrote:I guess Clem like ubuntu, so he has someone to blame when thing go wrong. :lol:
frank392 wrote:ubuntu is one of the most buggy distros ever!!!!
that is why mint has mintupdate, it is more like a firewall for bugs :lol:
Debian is like organic food Ubuntu is.......lab altered yaki food and if you are conscious about your health which one would you prefer to use to make your dinner?
frank392 wrote:If you want to paint a picture do you start with a clean canvas or dirty one?
I haven't seen anything indicating that Mint is going to change anytime soon from being Ubuntu-based to being Debian-based. It doesn't really seem to be such an awful situation for most Mint users. Why don't you just continue to use PCLinuxOS, or else just use Debian? Just go to the source. "Clean canvas" and all. Stay away from anything based on Ubuntu if you hate it that much. Save yourself the aggravation.

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Re: Debian as Base

Post by frank392 »

thank you for posting all my post you idiot I do not need to be remember what i said :evil:
Why don't you just continue to use PCLinuxOS
I will i LOVE IT
but i do love Mint, I was hear sense day one, but i do believe thing could be better and not mediocre. but at the end I do not care as long it is based on Ubuntu I refuse to use it for mental sanity :evil:

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MALsPa
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by MALsPa »

frank392 wrote:thank you for posting all my post you idiot I do not need to be remember what i said
No problem! Might as well post one more since I'm an idiot! :lol:

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MALsPa
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by MALsPa »

frank392 wrote:but at the end I do not care as long it is based on Ubuntu I refuse to use it for mental sanity
That's my point. Don't use anything based on Ubuntu if you hate it so much.

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Re: Debian as Base

Post by frank392 »

@MALsPa
Don't use anything based on Ubuntu
:lol: i believe I said I DON'T use it and i do not hate it I think is a mediocre product. :twisted: sense you like so much to quote, please at least read what I said Thank you :lol:

roshichris
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by roshichris »

frank392 wrote: but i do love Mint, I was hear sense day one, but i do believe thing could be better and not mediocre. but at the end I do not care as long it is based on Ubuntu I refuse to use it for mental sanity :evil:
Don't really mean to intrude on a private squabble but this is a pretty weird thing to say frank - that you love linux mint, but you also refuse to use it.

eh?

BTW I think the new PCLOS release is great as well. Only let down by that awful bull design that looks like it was designed by a 12 year old.

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Re: Debian as Base

Post by frank392 »

:D I use to run Mint in all of my computers (5) but sadly i had very bad experience with bug coming from ubuntu. ubuntu seams to be getting more and more buggy. and i do not have the time or the will to be fixing my computer when an update goes wrong.

With PclinuxOs i do not have or had any problem, about the looks i do not care how it looks that can be change in a couple of minutes. But I do care How it runs. and it does a great job

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Re: Debian as Base

Post by roshichris »

Aha I see :). I think I would stop using Mint too if I started experiencing a lot of bugs, but I honestly haven't found many yet. I use the XFCE community version tho which is maybe something to do with it? Are a lot of the bugs related to GNOME maybe?

You have probably tried it already but just in case you haven't I suggest you give the new Mandriva 2010 release a spin as well. For me it's a toss up between that and the new PCLOS 2010 for the best KDE4 distro I have ever used. They are very similar as well as you would expect.

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Re: Debian as Base

Post by frank392 »

@roshichris
Thank you, i have not try the xfce and you might be right :)

I have try the Mandriva 2010 and i think is a extraordinary release. but i find PclinuxOs 2010 more stable
But Thank you very much

runbei
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by runbei »

frank392 wrote:
Do Ubuntu's bugs carry over to Mint?
They surely do. Mint 7 ran Virtualbox (with WinXP Pro) nicely on my ThinkPad T43, but trying to run Mint 8 and Virtualbox was a nightmare - never could get it to work properly. It seems to have been due to bugs passed down from Ubuntu, and not a fault of the current releases of Virtualbox, which ran fine in other distros, including OpenSUSE, according to comments on those distros' forums.

The Ubuntu philosophy of "release every six months, regardless" is repellant to me. It values marketing above the user's needs, glitz over solid functionality. Worst thing that could happen to Linux is for Ubuntu to become so successful that other leading distros are sucked into its vortex, switching to Ubuntu as their base to avoid being left behind by the mainstream. It would be like the Windows world, where every company that hopes to make money has to suck up to Microsoft.

That's not why I'm using Linux. Ubuntu's marketing is powerful. Nowadays, the media equate Linux with Ubuntu. That's very dangerous. And it's probably unstoppable. The only hope I can see is for Linux Mint, Debian, OpenSUSE and others to speak loudly about Canonical's ego-driven policies.

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Re: Debian as Base

Post by scorp123 »

frank392 wrote: ... I remember we were so few at the forum I still miss scorp123 ...
:D

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Re: Debian as Base

Post by frank392 »

@scorp123
You are back!!!
That is so great, everyone was missing you, this forum was not the same since you left

deleted

Re: Debian as Base

Post by deleted »

BTW...
When folks are saying "Debian", do they mean "stable" (Lenny?) or do they mean testing""? or "unstable"?
I think that can clear up some things.
When I think Debian I tend to think either sidux (because it's a rolling distro, etc) or Debian "stable" from debian.org.
Most others are a mixed distro. That is, they start with a base then mix in (usually) "testing" packages when they are more stable than the "unstable" packages... and sometimes mix in "stable". From what I understand the mixed distro means it's much harder to do a rolling distro. (and maintenance) I think that's one of the reasons Mepis switched back from Ubuntu (and CrunchBang switched to Debian).

If Mint did switch, I'd opt for a true sid based version, not one based on Lenny. I've been down the "stable" route. True to it's name Debian "stable" is stable, but it's harder to find out of the box hardware support without a lot of building from source, and hand editing. I spent 6 years with sidux on one install. It was very stable, though it did lack some of the polish that Mint offers. That's why I'm here (instead of there).
-Hinto

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The Mage
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by The Mage »

MALsPa wrote:Seems to me that Keith's overall point is a call to make Debian stronger by putting more work and effort into Debian first; and that it would ultimately benefit Ubuntu and other Debian spin-offs. Doesn't sound like a bad idea.
This is a very valid point and one which is often a source of friction between the Debian (proper), community and developers, and those of the various 'spin offs'.

I cannot speak for Mint's relationship with Debian proper, as I have very little experience with it.

Ubuntu / Canonical though promote that "Debian is the rock on which it is built"..... (true), and that they provide patches etc upstream to Debian, (also true).

However they (Ubuntu/Canonical), do not actively work with the Debian community / devs, and leave the workload of integrating said patches solely with the Debian devs. In short they take but give back in a 'half hearted manner', hence the 'friction' between the two.

Shuttleworth who is still a registered Debian developer, ought to know better.

The sidux developers on the other hand work much more closely with their Debian counterparts in a close and cooperative manner.

As such it is a truly symbiotic relationship, the benefits of which are not only good for Debian but it's spin offs, including Mint.

Could Mint benefit by moving to a "pure" Debian base? Most likely.

However it would then lose the benefits of the "polish" added by Ubuntu. On the other hand it wouldn't need to clean up the various regressions etc, that Ubuntu seems to be increasingly plagued with either.

Either way it would require a great deal of work from the Mint team, and that ultimately is their choice.

The beauty of GNU / Linux however is that it provides users with the power to choose.

If the distro you are using doesn't suit your tastes then you are free to try another.

Cheers.

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mr.magoo
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by mr.magoo »

This discussion confuses me (what's new?). When I visit the various Linux sites or peripherals sites, it often requests the version one is using. I see Ubuntu x.xx, Red Hat, Fedora, Debian, maybe a couple of others, but I never see one for Linux Mint (female moniker). I always choose the Debian option because AFAIK, its the closest to platfork compatible than the others.

Sorry, I don't know tech lingo very well and I may be using an improper term or two.

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Robin
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by Robin »

The Mage wrote: ... However they (Ubuntu/Canonical), do not actively work with the Debian community / devs, and leave the workload of integrating said patches solely with the Debian devs. In short they take but give back in a 'half hearted manner', hence the 'friction' between the two. Shuttleworth who is still a registered Debian developer, ought to know better.
I have read in the Debian forums a common complaint that "Ubuntu takes credit for Debian's work." I guess that in much the same way, Mint "takes credit" for Ubuntu's work, and gives little to nothing back.

What Ubuntu does is "tame wild Debian" in a sense, making it possible for "ordinary" kids like me who lack "mad geek skillz" to put the awesomeness of Debian to work on our "ordinary" desktops and laptops. What Mint does is make Ubuntu even easier and even simpler for kids like me, and protects us from a lot of Ubuntu's bugginess.

Both Ubuntu and Mint are "guilty" of "taking credit for others' work" in a sense, but thank God for them both! Because if it weren't for Canonical's work and Mint's refinements, desktop Debian would be out of reach for alot of kids like me.

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Re: Debian as Base

Post by deleted »

I think Debian's main problem (for the purists) is that Ubuntu is a fork. That is, it starts as a mixed distro. Ubuntu developers then can patch if necessary. But the patches may not necessarily be rolled back into Debian.
That's why I keep looking at sidux + MintTools (and polish) for a Debian Mint. (or is it Mint Debian?).

BTW... anyone know the problems with Gnome and SID? If I install sidux, I cannot install gnome from the unstable repositories. Should I "pin" gnome to testing? If I can do that, then I should be able to install the mintTools. I did it once for the KDE version of sidux. It worked reasonably well....

-Hinto

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monkeyboy
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Re: Debian as Base

Post by monkeyboy »

In reference to "Ubuntu takes credit for Debian's work" folks should consider that no Linux distro is an island unto itself. I honestly can't think of one distro that has everything done in house, like the kernels, video drivers, DMs, etc, etc, etc. Everybody borrows, aggregates and is downstream from any number of other projects. If the community was not as open and integrated as it is now I suspect it would not have progressed as far as it has. Enjoy
If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

Complaining is like masticating most anyone can do it.
However doing it in public is really hardcore.

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