Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

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vonMos
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Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by vonMos » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:12 am

Hi everyone with the news that Linux Mint is 2'nd or 3'rd at Distro Watch no wonder the random user do not download any more LM. Main reason are hardware compatibility and software compatibility. Many chose LM for old machines or to run from windows environment.
So let's talk my case, I have an ultra book with low performance 4gb ram, intel 1007u cpu, ssd, intel hd graphics.

In LM19:
*Loading times are like 5 minutes to load...sometimes even 10+(probably has to do with kernel version..or NOT?) sounds like 2001 to me
*Does not have screen tearing
*NOTHING from 16.04 works... for example fluxgui...dead RIP
*Many old apps from 16.04 don't work...which SUX ...because many of the are good apps.

IN LM18.3
*Loading times are decent sub 20/30 seconds.
*Screen tearing is a PROBLEM!...for me i use Firefox and Screen tearing is terrible i fixed it with this custom command from about menu
layers.acceleration.force-enabled
*Everything WORKS like a charm

SO to my main point as i seen that 18.3 is supported until 2021.
*From 19.x old devices will be slow as rainbows
*I want that new CINNAMON to 18.3 as well ONLY IF it really works FASTER as the developer claims or probably the cinnamon is the main problem in LM19

The best version for my ultra book were 17.1, 17.2, 17.3 and the latest 18.3 the previous 18.1&2 were crap.

I hope main developer sees this and makes
LINUX MINT Sempre Editon (or whatever you want to call it) based on old 18.3 with new Cinnmon that is faster than the old 18.3 for old hardware and software support based on 16.04. THANK YOU!

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by gm10 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:18 am

Cinnamon is not meant for old hardware. Cinnamon is the flashy, hardware accelerated flagship desktop environment of Linux Mint.

If you need longer support for LM18 than the 5 years you get for free you can pay Ubuntu for their extended support package.

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by vonMos » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:26 am

gm10 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:18 am
Cinnamon is not meant for old hardware. Cinnamon is the flashy, hardware accelerated flagship desktop environment of Linux Mint.

If you need longer support for LM18 than the 5 years you get for free you can pay Ubuntu for their extended support package.
Cinnamon works like a charm on my old ultrabook, and Ubuntu is Terrible, Unity is worse than Cinnamon with 800+mb ram usage.
My main thing is if the latest Cinnamon version works better and faster in 18.3 why not make it available to 18.3 ? Probably because the loading times are Cinnamon fault.
My current loading speed is much faster on 18.3

Code: Select all

systemd-analyze blame
          
           930ms dev-sda3.device
           839ms ufw.service
           719ms systemd-cryptsetup@cryptswap1.service
           449ms ModemManager.service
           425ms lvm2-monitor.service
           383ms console-setup.service
           383ms accounts-daemon.service
           361ms loadcpufreq.service
           313ms apparmor.service
           277ms ntp.service
           277ms thermald.service
           273ms systemd-logind.service
           248ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
           243ms NetworkManager.service
           238ms upower.service
           228ms speech-dispatcher.service
           225ms hddtemp.service
           225ms grub-common.service
           218ms lightdm.service
           213ms ondemand.service
           209ms avahi-daemon.service
           201ms keyboard-setup.service
           198ms console-kit-log-system-start.service
           194ms systemd-rfkill.service
           185ms irqbalance.service
           173ms lm-sensors.service
           167ms iio-sensor-proxy.service
           166ms pppd-dns.service
           164ms gpu-manager.service
           162ms networking.service
           161ms apport.service
           160ms rsyslog.service
           134ms systemd-user-sessions.service
           122ms cpufrequtils.service
           105ms alsa-restore.service
            99ms plymouth-quit-wait.service
            96ms systemd-journald.service
            84ms udisks2.service
            81ms systemd-modules-load.service
            80ms binfmt-support.service
            79ms polkitd.service
            77ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
            62ms rc-local.service
            58ms systemd-udevd.service
            54ms openvpn.service
            50ms user@1000.service
            42ms resolvconf.service
            41ms systemd-journal-flush.service
            38ms dev-mqueue.mount
            37ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
            36ms console-kit-daemon.service
            35ms dev-hugepages.mount
            35ms proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.mount
            32ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
            27ms systemd-tmpfiles-clean.service
            25ms colord.service
            23ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-01fa1dc3\x2db4ae\x2d48a2\x2dba73\x2d24ef58ca3ab0.service
            21ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
            19ms dns-clean.service
            17ms kmod-static-nodes.service
            17ms plymouth-start.service
            15ms systemd-update-utmp.service
            14ms boot.mount
            14ms systemd-sysctl.service
            14ms systemd-remount-fs.service
            13ms plymouth-read-write.service
            10ms wpa_supplicant.service
            10ms sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
            10ms dev-mapper-cryptswap1.swap
             9ms ureadahead-stop.service
             8ms rtkit-daemon.service
             7ms sys-kernel-config.mount
             6ms systemd-random-seed.service
             4ms setvtrgb.service
             3ms systemd-backlight@backlight:intel_backlight.service

On 19 is from 5 to 10 minutes.
Last edited by vonMos on Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by karlchen » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:27 am

Hello, vonMos.

OK. The above post has been your rant. Great. Hope having told us all makes you feel better. :)
Yet, it does not solve any of the issues with Linux Mint 19 which you have mentioned.
You should seriously consider opening a dedicated thread for each problem which you experience with Linux Mint 19, which you have not done for a single problem so far. We may be able to sort them out (or not, no warranty given).

One thing which I do not understand is the statement:
None of the Ubuntu 16.04 applications works on Mint 19. - Why should they? - Mint 19 is based on Ubuntu 18.04.
As a consequence each and every application, which Mint 18.x got fom Ubuntu 16.04, Mint 19 gets the same application from Ubuntu 18.04.
So I fail to see the problem here. You must not mix software from different Linux Mint releases.

By the way, I run both, Ubuntu 18.04.1 Mate and Mint 19 Tara on pretty old Zotac hardware from 2009, feeble Atom dual-core with hyperthreading, 1.7 GB of memory only. And I cannot confirm that starting up the OS takes more time than before or that starting up applications takes more time than before.

Best regards,
Karl
Image
Linux Mint 18.1 64-bit Cinnamon Desktop, Total Commander 9.21a 64-bit
Ubuntu 18.04.1 32-bit Mate Desktop, Total Commander 9.21a 32-bit
Windows? - 1 window in every room

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by vonMos » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:38 am

karlchen wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:27 am
Hello, vonMos.

OK. The above post has been your rant. Great. Hope having told us all makes you feel better. :)
Yet, it does not solve any of the issues with Linux Mint 19 which you have mentioned.
You should seriously consider opening a dedicated thread for each problem which you experience with Linux Mint 19, which you have not done for a single problem so far. We may be able to sort them out (or not, no warranty given).

One thing which I do not understand is the statement:
None of the Ubuntu 16.04 applications works on Mint 19. - Why should they? - Mint 19 is based on Ubuntu 18.04.
As a consequence each and every application, which Mint 18.x got fom Ubuntu 16.04, Mint 19 gets the same application from Ubuntu 18.04.
So I fail to see the problem here. You must not mix software from different Linux Mint releases.

By the way, I run both, Ubuntu 18.04.1 Mate and Mint 19 Tara on pretty old Zotac hardware from 2009, feeble Atom dual-core with hyperthreading, 1.7 GB of memory only. And I cannot confirm that starting up the OS takes more time than before or that starting up applications takes more time than before.

Best regards,
Karl
The sad thing is that many old devs that made 16.04 apps wont update them to 18.04. This is one important reason why Linux Mint fall behind in DistroWatch. The top 1 is now a Arch distro. Dev's really don't give a s*** about your open threads in a forum...

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by vonMos » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:48 am

I had Windows 10 R5 and loading time were instant ... even if i am in inside tester for Windows =)), sometimes i don't like it for ex: 15gb used space for nothing...etc.. i use Windows only for game development because Linux is compatible with sh**...
Last edited by vonMos on Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:14 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by catweazel » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:51 am

vonMos wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:38 am
The sad thing is that many old devs that made 16.04 apps wont update them to 18.04. This is one important reason why Linux Mint fall behind in DistroWatch. The top 1 is now a Arch distro. Dev's really don't give a s*** about your open threads in a forum...
So, what applications are there that exist in 16.04 but not in 18.04, excluding all applications that are no longer maintained.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by Moem » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:09 am

Mod note:
Two posts removed because of profanity and politics; vonMos, tone it down right quick, or you'll get a time out.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by karlchen » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:15 am

2 moderators for this never-ending rant, built on over-generalization, hyperbole and lots of four-letter words, but supported by no verifiable facts, is one moderator too many. I am out of this.
Image
Linux Mint 18.1 64-bit Cinnamon Desktop, Total Commander 9.21a 64-bit
Ubuntu 18.04.1 32-bit Mate Desktop, Total Commander 9.21a 32-bit
Windows? - 1 window in every room

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by vonMos » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:18 am

karlchen wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:15 am
2 moderators for this never-ending rant, built on over-generalization, hyperbole and lots of four-letter words, but supported by no verifiable facts, is one moderator too many. I am out of this.
What no fact? what do you say? do you think? or not? if i had no problem i would never post on a forum as a "rant"...

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by Moem » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:21 am

You've not asked for help with your problems, and that's a fact. Apparently you don't want help. Okay then, and you can even vent here, as long as you stay within forum rules. :roll:
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by vonMos » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:26 am

Moem wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:21 am
You've not asked for help with your problems, and that's a fact. Apparently you don't want help. Okay then, and you can even vent here, as long as you stay within forum rules. :roll:
What help? you don't write the kernel or the Cinnamon or Ubuntu 18.04... you are not a developer... it's the main 18.04 base and latest Cinnamon at fault, for me at least.

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by Moem » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:32 am

So go complain about the kernel to the people who make the kernel, perhaps? And move away from Cinnamon if it's not working for you?

What exactly are you hoping to accomplish with this posting anyway? Clem might possibly be interested in clear and constructive criticism, but he won't be interested in rants and swearing.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by MrEen » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:33 am

vonMos wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:18 am
karlchen wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:15 am
2 moderators for this never-ending rant, built on over-generalization, hyperbole and lots of four-letter words, but supported by no verifiable facts, is one moderator too many. I am out of this.
What no fact? what do you say? do you think? or not? if i had no problem i would never post on a forum as a "rant"...
And when you do have problems, this is the suggested course of action:
karlchen wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:27 am
You should seriously consider opening a dedicated thread for each problem which you experience with Linux Mint 19, which you have not done for a single problem so far. We may be able to sort them out (or not, no warranty given).

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by vonMos » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:40 am

MrEen wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:33 am
vonMos wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:18 am
karlchen wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:15 am
2 moderators for this never-ending rant, built on over-generalization, hyperbole and lots of four-letter words, but supported by no verifiable facts, is one moderator too many. I am out of this.
What no fact? what do you say? do you think? or not? if i had no problem i would never post on a forum as a "rant"...
And when you do have problems, this is the suggested course of action:
karlchen wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:27 am
You should seriously consider opening a dedicated thread for each problem which you experience with Linux Mint 19, which you have not done for a single problem so far. We may be able to sort them out (or not, no warranty given).
Even if i do that you can't really make everything work right because every PC/Laptop/ETC.. is different in hardware spec, plus i don't have the time to make a thread for everything i need to work and make a living...also i coded in the past for Linux Mint 17 on launchpad.net, worked like a charm 17.x series. I have the knowledge but i don't have the time...

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by MrEen » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:18 am

Ahhh. So the point of this thread is that Mint should work OOTB on all hardware without any tweaking necessary. Got it. We can hope that 19.1 fixes every issue for every user on every conceivable piece of hardware running any version of any software I guess, but it might take a little longer to get there.

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by vonMos » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:15 am

MrEen wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:18 am
Ahhh. So the point of this thread is that Mint should work OOTB on all hardware without any tweaking necessary. Got it. We can hope that 19.1 fixes every issue for every user on every conceivable piece of hardware running any version of any software I guess, but it might take a little longer to get there.
Like never :)), but i bet also other old hardware spec are in the same situation as me. Lubuntu work fine vers 18.04 but i have to configure a lot of things and looks boring... so the main fault is CINNAMON and ... ?... i will stay on 18.3 until 2021

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by Pepi » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:02 am

"i will stay on 18.3 until 2021" Sounds like the 'KEY' words for you.

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by vonMos » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:56 pm

Pepi wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:02 am
"i will stay on 18.3 until 2021" Sounds like the 'KEY' words for you.
18.3 works like a charm... :mrgreen: for my old ultrabook, on the work desktop i use UNHOLY Windows 10 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Linux Mint 18.3 is better than 19 ... Why? I hope main developer see this

Post by Hoser Rob » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:58 am

vonMos wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:12 am
Hi everyone with the news that Linux Mint is 2'nd or 3'rd at Distro Watch no wonder the random user do not download any more LM. Main reason are hardware compatibility and software compatibility. Many chose LM for old machines or to run from windows environment.
So let's talk my case, I have an ultra book with low performance 4gb ram, intel 1007u cpu, ssd, intel hd graphics.

In LM19:
*Loading times are like 5 minutes to load...sometimes even 10+(probably has to do with kernel version..or NOT?) sounds like 2001 to me
*Does not have screen tearing
*NOTHING from 16.04 works... for example fluxgui...dead RIP
*Many old apps from 16.04 don't work...which SUX ...because many of the are good apps.

IN LM18.3
*Loading times are decent sub 20/30 seconds.
*Screen tearing is a PROBLEM!...for me i use Firefox and Screen tearing is terrible i fixed it with this custom command from about menu
layers.acceleration.force-enabled
*Everything WORKS like a charm

SO to my main point as i seen that 18.3 is supported until 2021.
*From 19.x old devices will be slow as rainbows
*I want that new CINNAMON to 18.3 as well ONLY IF it really works FASTER as the developer claims or probably the cinnamon is the main problem in LM19

The best version for my ultra book were 17.1, 17.2, 17.3 and the latest 18.3 the previous 18.1&2 were crap.

I hope main developer sees this and makes
LINUX MINT Sempre Editon (or whatever you want to call it) based on old 18.3 with new Cinnmon that is faster than the old 18.3 for old hardware and software support based on 16.04. THANK YOU!
Developers are not interested in ill informed rants by rank newbies.

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