Some of you use Snapd?

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Termy
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Re: Some of you use Snapd?

Post by Termy »

Lucap wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:22 pm
The Ubuntu Devs are currently experimenting with an entire snap desktop built around Ubuntu Core
That would be enough to send my straight to Debian. :? Hopefully it'll still remain an option.
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Re: Some of you use Snapd?

Post by David Chiang »

Lucap wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:22 pm
The Ubuntu Devs are currently experimenting with an entire snap desktop built around Ubuntu Core so everything including gnome would be in it's own seperate snap. I would imagine the final install size is pretty big.
Oh yes, that's also the reason why since last year more and more former Ubuntu users, totally disappointed, have fled to other distros. According to some rumours, there are now so many refugees that Clem had to set up his own camp for these poor people. :lol:

I don't understand why some developers with obvious commercial interests want to establish a completely half-baked sandboxing system by completely overturning the basic principles that define Linux. When did this circus actually start? First with the quarrels in the gnome project and its desktop environment, then not long afterwards a massive argument between Linus Torvalds and some programmers about the kernel structure, then a no less massive argument within Debian and other distros about systemd. But now there is a lot more at stake, namely a horrible competition for sandboxing systems that most users don't need at all.

A real worst-case scenario would really have to take place to justify sandboxing in whatever form. But even then I would flatly reject snap because I consider Flatpak to be much more trustworthy. What we all really want is the freedom to decide what runs on our machine and how. I don't want to be forced to have a specific desktop environment, but to choose it myself, and I don't want to be forced to update just because it cannot be switched off in snap.

But I see the real reason for this development somewhere else, namely with M$ and its announcement that Windows 10 will be the last operating system and therefore a scramble about the commercialization of Linux or at least the attempt to enforce it has arisen. :evil:
Termy wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:13 am
That would be enough to send me straight to Debian. :? Hopefully it'll still remain an option.
That would be exactly what I would do too. For the time being it is only an option, but in the coming Ubuntu packages snap will be preinstalled and either the redistributor or the user would have to uninstall it.
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Re: Some of you use Snapd?

Post by Termy »

David Chiang wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:36 pm
...
In all honestly, I might fight back a bit more before I resort to using Debian. As time goes on, I'm appreciating the difference between Debian and Ubuntu, so I'm confident that with time I could make Debian as close to what I'm used to in Ubuntu, with the exception of the packages.

Even if they did distribute Ubuntu -- in all its original forms -- with snaps and dropping support for APT and basically all forms of Debian packaging, someone would no doubt redistribute Ubuntu without snaps; we've seen this sort of separation happen with SystemD (IE: Devuan GNU+Linux), Linux Mint opting not to use snaps, and people continuing Unity after it was abandoned by Canonical.

I install Ubuntu using mini.iso, and loathe doing it any other way. I'm actually on 18.04 not 20.04 because Canonical hid mini.iso, leading me to believe, at the time, that they dropped support for it right there and then. So I probably won't have to worry any time soon, hopefully. That said, it looks like they'll be dropping support for mini.iso after 20.04, unless that's changed since I last looked it up.

If they dumped APT but kept Debian packages, I still wouldn't be too worried, as writing a Perl or pure-BASH package manager for Ubuntu is something I've wanted to do for years. Or I'd just try to compile APT from source; there's gotta be a way to get it to work.
David Chiang wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:36 pm
But I see the real reason for this development somewhere else, namely with M$ and its announcement that Windows 10 will be the last operating system and therefore a scramble about the commercialization of Linux or at least the attempt to enforce it has arisen.
To be fair, M$ isn't best known for their honestly and reliable statements. The Start Menu and various XBOX-related stuff comes to mind. I wouldn't be surprised if they come up with another version of Windows eventually, perhaps after they've finished farming their users in Windows 10. Then again, just because they've claimed Windows 10 is their last, doesn't mean they've stopped development and don't still have a good business model.
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Re: Some of you use Snapd?

Post by Lucap »

From what i can gather the reasoning behind experimenting with a complete Snapd desktop would be for their extra long support so a really old core could still run the latest apps as the individual snapd's would have all their own files to run independently.
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Re: Some of you use Snapd?

Post by witzel »

Termy wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:13 am
Lucap wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:22 pm
The Ubuntu Devs are currently experimenting with an entire snap desktop built around Ubuntu Core
That would be enough to send my straight to Debian. :? Hopefully it'll still remain an option.
As I thought, I think Ubuntu will become something like Fedora Silverblue, but only with snaps. So, if Linux Mint doesn't accept snaps, this distro would be screwed. (although I think it shouldn't pre-install and enable snaps) In my opinion, basing Mint on Debian is much less problematic/painful and has the "community" sense still alive.
I have an even worse scenario for Ubuntu though, an scenario where it actually dies in the desktop the way we know it and only focuses their work for IoT, servers and support. The future of Ubuntu is pretty shady tbh, but I like to think about different scenenarios.
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Re: Some of you use Snapd?

Post by Termy »

witzel wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:57 pm
I have an even worse scenario for Ubuntu though, an scenario where it actually dies in the desktop the way we know it and only focuses their work for IoT, servers and support. The future of Ubuntu is pretty shady tbh, but I like to think about different scenenarios.
I'm confident that Ubuntu on the desktop is going nowhere; it's far too popular and successful. Besdies, Ubuntu is practically the forefront of desktop Linux. Even if it did for some reason go poof, I'm confident lots of fans would come together to work on an alternative based on Ubuntu, myself likely included.
I use Linux Mint 18.3 with Cinnamon in a VirtualBox VM for testing & sandboxing.

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Re: Some of you use Snapd?

Post by witzel »

Termy wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:47 am
witzel wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:57 pm
I have an even worse scenario for Ubuntu though, an scenario where it actually dies in the desktop the way we know it and only focuses their work for IoT, servers and support. The future of Ubuntu is pretty shady tbh, but I like to think about different scenenarios.
I'm confident that Ubuntu on the desktop is going nowhere; it's far too popular and successful. Besdies, Ubuntu is practically the forefront of desktop Linux. Even if it did for some reason go poof, I'm confident lots of fans would come together to work on an alternative based on Ubuntu, myself likely included.
I have seen a lot of popular project dying, so I don't think just because Ubuntu is popular now, it would be popular forever.
Yeah, it'll probably be forked as the code is fully available. See what is happening to CentOS now?
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