Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

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Cosmo.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by Cosmo. »

Twice "21.3"? See you in 2 years. :)
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by DickieFix »

Just upgraded my daily driver, an 8 year old Latitude E5540, from 20.3 to 21 with no dramas. It took only an hour start to finish and the only thing I had to manually reset was the 'tap to click' option on the touch-pad menu.

Many thanks to the Team for producing a great upgrade tool.

14 Aug - I've now given my Dell Precision a fresh install of 21, and again had to manually set the 'tap to click' to 'on' in the touch pad menu. Never had to do this before.
Last edited by DickieFix on Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by rambo919 »

I did the official path... 4 TIMES I encountered filesystem corruption issues forcing me to reboot to live usb to do fsck..... the last time was during the install so now i have to do timeshift...... hopefully this damn corruption bug that has been plaguing me on and off the whole 20 series (first on a buggy HDD and then on a perfectly fine SSD) will have been fixed in 21 once I finally manage to upgrade. The last series that was this kind of "special" was 18 but that was a much better experience because it did not continually literally break the install.

Also a few criticisms of the process which seems bleedin obvious:
  • Why not just disable ppa's and repo's temporarily so they can be upgraded in a second leg or first startup?
  • Why (related to the above) force the uninstallation of packages? Why not temporarily disable them?
  • Why not makes the damn lists of affected packers, repo's and ppa's copyable? I had to manually retype the damn things so I could know what to reinstall.
  • This process is gonna give anyone resembling being a newby such a headache it will make him reconsider going back to windows
  • Regular users will not accept such a convoluted PITA kind of upgrade because they are either PC illiterate, above wasting their time on unnecessary tinkering, or just plain used to the mostly effortless though lengthy windows upgrade process.
  • Someone REALLY should find a way to as part of the process extract the files from the ISO.... the size in upgrade downloads is absolutely ridiculous.
  • If not the above.... find a way to compress the downloads.... I understand the lazyness involved but does this not cause unnecessary server strain?
  • An INCREDIBLY stupid bug keeps rearing it's head..... an update for minupgrade shows.... which cannot be applies... which stops mintupgrade in it's tracks..... (the fix being to remove it via cli and then install it again.... which is necessary due to a bug in synaptic which makes it unable to start if there is any kind of upgrade.....explain how THAT kind of fckup is good advertisement for newbies?)
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by rambo919 »

Now retrying on main PC which caused all the drama and gonna start on the laptop..... I hope it's flawless. I made sure to copy the debs after download so i don't have to redownload them.

EDIT: That failed too... same problems on two separate machines. Apparently something went wrong with the downloads and half of the debs are not actually debs.... but I could install them fine separately when I tried to. And then.... another screen came up saying even more packages don't exist in the repos and need to be deleted..... what an absolute BS requirement.

You know what, fck it, I am just gonna wipe the main partition and re-install clean tomorrow.... I can't remember having had so bad an upgrade experience before.... maybe I just forgot it.
Last edited by rambo919 on Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by Portreve »

I'm now running LM 21 on bare metal, and it's working flawlessly.

While Gnome 3.42 (a.k.a. "Gnome 42") has come a long way and without a doubt is the nicest and most up-to-date release yet, you'd think it would be more stable and not keep generating errors, given how massive a community of developers and external contributors it has. Linux Mint surely doesn't have near as many, and it's absolutely solid. And that's with it using GTK!

I used Disks to kill the partitions on the Ubuntu 22.04 flash drive I set up, then Gparted to blow away and redo the partition table. Rebooted, re-inserted the flash drive, and used balenaEtcher to then write a fresh partition and image setup on it. There was nothing up to that point I cared about backing up on my system, so I shut down, disconnected everything except for my keyboard/mouse transceiver, monitor, and USB speakers. Rebooted from the new Mint 21 flash drive and used Gparted to kill the partitions and blow away the partition table, creating a fresh GPT one. Then, I rebooted into the BIOS and blew away all the security settings (keys, TPM, etc.) and had it reload the default HP values. Rebooted to the HP Windows 10 (issued by Microsoft, and read-only) flash drive, and did a totally fresh setup of Win 10. Rebooted to desktop, used Disk Management to split the drive in half (basically shrinking the C: to 50%), then rebooted from the LM 21 flash drive and had it do a side-by-side install.

I would have used the LM 21 flash drive to wipe Ubuntu and set it up that way, but I couldn't figure out how to get it to do that. It kept wanting to do a side-by-side with Ubuntu 22.04 even when I would "kill off" the Ubuntu partitions. So, I said ████ it and blew the whole drive away.

Anyhow, I couldn't be happier with LM 21.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by AZgl1800 »

rambo919 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:32 am I did the official path... 4 TIMES I encountered filesystem corruption issues forcing me to reboot to live usb to do fsck..... the last time was during the install so now i have to do timeshift...... hopefully this damn corruption bug that has been plaguing me on and off the whole 20 series (first on a buggy HDD and then on a perfectly fine SSD) will have been fixed in 21 once I finally manage to upgrade. The last series that was this kind of "special" was 18 but that was a much better experience because it did not continually literally break the install.

Also a few criticisms of the process which seems bleedin obvious:
  • Why not just disable ppa's and repo's temporarily so they can be upgraded in a second leg or first startup?
  • Why (related to the above) force the uninstallation of packages? Why not temporarily disable them?
  • Why not makes the damn lists of affected packers, repo's and ppa's copyable? I had to manually retype the damn things so I could know what to reinstall.
  • This process is gonna give anyone resembling being a newby such a headache it will make him reconsider going back to windows
  • Regular users will not accept such a convoluted PITA kind of upgrade because they are either PC illiterate, above wasting their time on unnecessary tinkering, or just plain used to the mostly effortless though lengthy windows upgrade process.
  • Someone REALLY should find a way to as part of the process extract the files from the ISO.... the size in upgrade downloads is absolutely ridiculous.
  • If not the above.... find a way to compress the downloads.... I understand the lazyness involved but does this not cause unnecessary server strain?
  • An INCREDIBLY stupid bug keeps rearing it's head..... an update for minupgrade shows.... which cannot be applies... which stops mintupgrade in it's tracks..... (the fix being to remove it via cli and then install it again.... which is necessary due to a bug in synaptic which makes it unable to start if there is any kind of upgrade.....explain how THAT kind of fckup is good advertisement for newbies?)
Once again, you are griping about something that is easy to fix.

install Aptik and make a backup of your current Applications.
( on an External Drive please )

Once the upgrade is finished, or just a new fresh install, is how I do it.

Install Aptik on the new OS and then ask it to Recover the previous backup.

it will install all of the applications that are in the current Repository,
and will present you with a list of those it can't find.

copy that list, print it out, and manually install those apps.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by all41 »

I am in favor of fresh installs but I did test the mintupgrade tool on one partition.
I followed the instructions verbatim and encountered no problems whatsoever.
The whole process took 45 minutes on my 12Mb dl connection.
I could have fresh installed quicker--already having the .iso
Everything in life was difficult before it became easy.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by AZgl1800 »

all41 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:02 pm I am in favor of fresh installs but I did test the mintupgrade tool on one partition.
I followed the instructions verbatim and encountered no problems whatsoever.
The whole process took 45 minutes on my 12Mb dl connection.
I could have fresh installed quicker--already having the .iso
I too prefer fresh installs,
BUT, what I am wondering about, will the Upgrade retain the personal settings that we put into each app that we use.

Fresh Installs and Aptik will reinstall those Apps perfectly, BUT, the Personal Settings are lost.

e.g., will it retain the current Background Image?
does it retain the Screen Timeout settings,
there are a whole slew of things that I put into my OS to fine tune it like I want....

and it takes me weeks to get back to normal after a fresh install, if ever
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by Aftermath »

Cosmo. wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:49 am
Aftermath wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:38 pm The only reason I upgrade is to keep up with security updates not to redesign my operating system functions and features.
This is no reason. Mint 20.x gets support (inclusive security patches of course) until 2025.
Your absolutely correct about this option, that was tentatively going through my head at the time when deciding whether or not to upgrade.
Had some time on my hand and decided might as well do it now since eventually I would have to for security updates.
For a few years I was having a lot of good luck with Linux operating systems, I guess my guard was let down and took a risk that resulted in disaster.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by all41 »

AZgl1800 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:03 pm
all41 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:02 pm I am in favor of fresh installs but I did test the mintupgrade tool on one partition.
I followed the instructions verbatim and encountered no problems whatsoever.
The whole process took 45 minutes on my 12Mb dl connection.
I could have fresh installed quicker--already having the .iso
I too prefer fresh installs,
BUT, what I am wondering about, will the Upgrade retain the personal settings that we put into each app that we use.

Fresh Installs and Aptik will reinstall those Apps perfectly, BUT, the Personal Settings are lost.

e.g., will it retain the current Background Image?
does it retain the Screen Timeout settings,
there are a whole slew of things that I put into my OS to fine tune it like I want....

and it takes me weeks to get back to normal after a fresh install, if ever
For you the upgrade would be rather innocuous.
Your .hidden files are not touched. As always have your backups in order beforehand.
I consider my upgraded 20.3 to be equal to Mint 21, still testing though.
Everything in life was difficult before it became easy.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by Aftermath »

AZgl1800 wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:29 am
Cosmo. wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:49 am
Aftermath wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:38 pm The only reason I upgrade is to keep up with security updates not to redesign my operating system functions and features.
This is no reason. Mint 20.x gets support (inclusive security patches of course) until 2025.
I have 19.3, 20.3 and now 21.3 on different machines and they all pretty much feel and work the same.

my 20.3 laptop is my daily driver, and I can't see a real difference from that to 21.3 Cinnamon.

but then, I don't push the OS very hard looking for niggling little things.
I use Firefox and LO writer/calc and that is as far as I go.
I do not understand what is going on here. After the upgrade on-line did not work I used a thumb drive with Live version of 21 and that does not work.
Goes through the start up with the LM logo and then starts a few lines of read out and then freezes then a final line appears that reads like this
[ 0.392044] x86/cpu: (outside TXT) disabled by BIOS
That is it, freezes at this point with nothing. There is no possible way to install 21 on this computer, yet before the upgrade 20.3 worked very good.
Again, cannot go back to 20.3 since the thumb drive I used to originally install with live version is acting really strange, I can get a live operating system yet the programs will not open that are on the thumb drive. This worked fine when I originally installed the 20.3 version last year.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by rambo919 »

AZgl1800 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:38 pm
Once again, you are griping about something that is easy to fix.

install Aptik and make a backup of your current Applications.
( on an External Drive please )

Once the upgrade is finished, or just a new fresh install, is how I do it.

Install Aptik on the new OS and then ask it to Recover the previous backup.

it will install all of the applications that are in the current Repository,
and will present you with a list of those it can't find.

copy that list, print it out, and manually install those apps.
That is well and good, but please explain to me how that is a viable solution for most people instead of most long term linux users? And how long will the free version of Aptik still be fully usable?

Also you missed a lot of my gripes, there was not just one.

The upgrade process is incredibly flawed, I should not have had the troubles I did with corruption and having to manually delete and redownload perfectly fine debs because some stupid check said they are not actually real debs.... server problem perhaps where it pushed bad files?

My only choices now is to completely delete my deb cache and start over with a wonderful 6+GB download (which I already did but is now useless) on a connection where that takes hours or do a clean install and restore the packages..... which would basically also amount to that. Either way it's a day's work and that p-es me off. It would have been so easy to just have the upgrader check deb integrity of the whole cache and do the deletions and redownloads automatically instead of piecemeal resulting in an infuriating whackamole exercise making you want to attack the PC with a hammer.

Say what you will about windows.... I have never had to constantly reboot and fix the filesystem because of installation of software constantly breaking it. Now I fear it might actually be breaking the drives I install it to. One time is a bad drive, a second drive is not a coincidence.

I think I am going to do both now though, attempt a clean upgrade on the laptop which has given me no problems and a clean install on the PC which probably has a lot of completely screwed up system files by now due to the constant filesystem breakdowns.
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Re: Linux Mint 21 upgrade process

Post by Moem »

rossdv8 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:09 pm That's where I fell over. When it said I could keep the packages I wanted from the huge list - but I couldn't find 'Preferences. I simply didn't see the Hamburger menu (3 tiny linies).
It would be nice if the Mint Team perhaps changed that bit by making a 'Keep Some packages' button and a Don;t Keep Any Packages' button. Something obvious for some of us Old Codgers with dodgy eyesight who have rarely ever used anything with normal styling/theming.
I agree, the step to get into Preferences was not all that obvious. There's room for improvement there.
rossdv8 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:09 pm When I found the Hambugger and the Preference menu - I assumed it would be a click and select, or a drag to the right type dialog.
Your reply seems to suggest that we were supposed to type commands into something for each package we wanted to save (My Brother Printer Drivers and about 4 proprietary lumps of coal).
What did the Upgrade Tool actually ask you to do to save them?
It asked to type the names of the programs. That, too, leaves some room for improvement. I solved the puzzle by taking a screenshot of the list and using that as a reference for typing the names. But some simple tick boxes added to that list to be ticked for the programs we need to keep, would be a much easier way to do this.

Overall my upgrade went pretty well and I'm happy with the result. The machine seems fast and the colours on the display look brighter.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by PhilippeH »

I did a fresh install for the upgrade to Mint Cinnamon 21. Previous time (19.3 to 20) I followed the upgrade path, this time I wanted to start clean. I had no trouble whatsoever with getting back my data, thanks to Timeshift for my local web server configuration, and Back in Time for my files.

I had a bit more trouble with my theme menus and controls (Mint-Y-Legacy-Aqua), as it was modified since 20.3 version, but the gtk CSS override saved me and I am back home comfortably.

All in all, I would say the new install took me about the same amount of time as the upgrade path, but I was doing things :D
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by AZgl1800 »

to: rambo919

I apologize for omitting your other gripes, they are legit....
I just have not experienced them, as I have not done the upgrade process yet.

REF: Atptik,
it is no longer free, and I have always from day one, purchased a License to use it, so I was never concerned with how long the "free version" will work.

It is my belief, that if a Developer does great work, and I use their product a lot, then I should donate to their cause.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by AZgl1800 »

all41 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:48 pm
For you the upgrade would be rather innocuous.
Your .hidden files are not touched. As always have your backups in order beforehand.
I consider my upgraded 20.3 to be equal to Mint 21, still testing though.
thank you, I think I will make a couple of backups and give the Upgrade a try with my Daily Driver.
the fresh install with Vbox went well, and I have not seen anything Negative with it yet.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by Tater »

I had success upgrading my LM20.3 XFCE on my ancient Dell D830 a while ago.

This morning I decided to give the upgrade a go on my desktop and got slapped for my efforts. The reboot went into emergency mode. No way to get it to do anything: It didn't respond to the commands that were suggested. I tried grub repair and looked up some of the errors I was getting. I suspect that the issue was the fstab being overwritten by the upgrade. But I couldn't get any commands to execute to even try and stumble my way through fixing that by command line.

The command line rescue tools are pretty much useless unless you live in that space, IMHO. It takes longer to find what commands work and do what in the different tools than simply wiping and reinstalling takes. I suppose I could have tried to fix it using the liveUSB's GUI tools. But I wasn't sure if that would cause permission issues when I rebooted which just seemed like a good way to get real frustrated.

So, I decided to use Timeshift to revert the upgrade. I really like how Timeshift is instant using BTRFS. What took a couple of hours to do was undone in a couple seconds.

I will do a fresh install of LM21 another day. I'm not going to try the upgrade again. That was just too much time wasted.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by rambo919 »

AZgl1800 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:44 am It is my belief, that if a Developer does great work, and I use their product a lot, then I should donate to their cause.
This is very true, if you can afford to. I probably will buy a license myself at some point in the future if I can but not everyone can. At least it is a perpetual license.

Proposing a paid solution unfortunately is as good a look for Linux as it was for Windows when they stopped supporting profile transfers.... fortunately for that now there is transwiz and it works beautifully.

A lot of my troubles probably just stem from LM20 hating my machine for some inexplicable reason..... when I redid the upgrade from the laptop after cleaning out the apt folder I only had one show-stopper with Virtual Box, I could fix that but most regular PC users probably won't be able to. I was also a lot less steamed than I was yesterday after all the problems.

Best option clearly is to do a clean install on the problem PC, but I am gonna wait for that since not all my PPA's are updated to jammy yet..... which is a horrible name......

Either way, lets not kid ourselves, there is a lot of room for improvement and frustratingly low percentages of interest in fixing them. In the current state though I just cannot promote Linux to anyone not fully PC literate with time to spare whenever something goes wrong which also frustrates me.
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by AZgl1800 »

rambo919 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:03 am
AZgl1800 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:44 am It is my belief, that if a Developer does great work, and I use their product a lot, then I should donate to their cause.
This is very true, if you can afford to. I probably will buy a license myself at some point in the future if I can but not everyone can. At least it is a perpetual license.

Proposing a paid solution unfortunately is as good a look for Linux as it was for Windows when they stopped supporting profile transfers.... fortunately for that now there is transwiz and it works beautifully.

A lot of my troubles probably just stem from LM20 hating my machine for some inexplicable reason..... when I redid the upgrade from the laptop after cleaning out the apt folder I only had one show-stopper with Virtual Box, I could fix that but most regular PC users probably won't be able to. I was also a lot less steamed than I was yesterday after all the problems.

Best option clearly is to do a clean install on the problem PC, but I am gonna wait for that since not all my PPA's are updated to jammy yet..... which is a horrible name......

Either way, lets not kid ourselves, there is a lot of room for improvement and frustratingly low percentages of interest in fixing them. In the current state though I just cannot promote Linux to anyone not fully PC literate with time to spare whenever something goes wrong which also frustrates me.
My sister and her hubby are attached to Windows at the hip.
I gave them a Dell laptop with LM17.3 Cinnamon on it, they keep it in their motor-home as a spare, it gets used once every 3 years?

Result, they won't use Linux.......... but...

I just a couple days ago, took an HP All-In-One PC, brand new from Walmart, that refused to let anyone log into it without creating a Microsoft Account..... I abhor MicroSloth like the plague, and so does my sister.....

So, I installed LM21 beta on it with Cinnamon, and chose a Desktop Background much like what my sister uses.

Then, I took an old HDD that her husband had jerked out of her favorite PC because he wanted a newer, faster PC, and all of her pictures from 40 years are on that one HDD.....

Two things happened really fast, a Family Fight that I stayed out of.....
.... and hubby's new PC would not accept that old HDD....

So, I bought a HDD dock and used that new HP flatscreen all.in.one PC to search, find, and recover all of her pictures...

I almost converted her to Linux :mrgreen:
that all.in.one now has a full backup of her stuff from decades ago, and she declared that hubby will never be able to touch that thing now. :mrgreen:

It is staying in her motor-home, safely away from his hands, and will be a backup if one of their Win11 PCs bites the dirt....

She knows how to use it, and I made it look like her Windows PC :lol:
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Re: Mint 21 Upgrade - How did it go?

Post by rambo919 »

AZgl1800 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:14 am It is staying in her motor-home, safely away from his hands, and will be a backup if one of their Win11 PCs bites the dirt....

She knows how to use it, and I made it look like her Windows PC :lol:
I cannot help but marvel at how M$ managed to shoot it itself simultaneously in the foot and buttocks with Win11.... and they just keep doubling down on the insanity.

It's highly possible that they don't understand why people react so negatively to it given the bubble they must live in. And they keep reacting like spoilt brats to solutions like Rufus that proudly gives them the middle finger.... I can almost see management throwing temper tantrum fits.....
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