Supporting old computers

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Portreve
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by Portreve »

Daveroski wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:47 am
... Linux was intended to be "for the people - by the people"...
No, Linux was not. The GNU Hurd was. These are two completely different projects started by two completely different sets of people (well, a group of people with RMS at the helm, and then separately Linus Torvalds, to be more accurate) with two wildly different sets of motivations.

I suspect that Linus has come around to the idea that there is a LOT of benefit to the philosophical side of things (i.e. "libre licensing" vs "open source") but insofar as the initial motivation to create what each created... yeah, two very different things.

Hoser Rob wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:12 am
Linux was intended to be on open source Unix compatible plugin kernel.

GNU/Linux, which is what is actually being referred to when most people say 'Linux', is not the same as the Linux Kernel Project, but it is totally pararitic on it. No Linux kenrel, no GNU/Linux. Period.
In line with what you said here, let me dissect this in a slightly different way.

If we only look at the environment that was trying to be created (leaving aside all philosophical aspects) what was intended was a "public UNIX" OS. UNIX has never been associated with small-time, low-end hardware. Back in the day, multi-thousand-dollar workstations had difficulty running it, and were largely limited to having no GUI at all. It would take AGES for the hardware to catch up with the demand being placed on it by multi-tasking, multi-user, protected-memory operating systems, all of which were the hallmark of UNIX-type OSs, and also therefore GNU Hurd. Linus, separately, had intended to write his own OS, and he'd also intended in essence for it to be a UNIX-type OS.

The only reason that today, in the year 2022, that we tend to lose sight of this fact is the evolution of computer hardware to such an extent that everything being sold today sits well above the baseline requirements necessary to run UNIX-type OSs (this includes Linux, macOS, NT-class Windows, HP-UX, etc.)
ANd the Linux Kernel Project is a foundation paid for by many of the biggest companies in the tech world. Microsoft has been one of them for years. They don't give a tinker's damn about old hardware, they have enough to do with the new stuff.
Initially, it really was just a bunch of individuals pursuing their own self-interests doing all the contribution to the development of what we now call GNU+Linux. Once various companies of all kinds of sizes started seeing the value in it by the late 1990s, World-Wide Corporate has been contributing, whether that's money, labor, or both. The more they all contribute, the more skin they have in the game as well as the greater the collective self-interest benefit they realize from it, and as a result of those sorts of factors in addition to individuals still contributing on their own, GNU+Linux is the OS we know today. And absolutely had corporations the world over not gotten into the act, it's hard to imagine the level of development we benefit from every day being present. That's an undeniable fact, and one in which you and I are in 100% agreement. It's kind of like during the daytime on a day which is clear and cloudless (or thereabouts) the sky is blue, and it's blue not because you want it to be, or I want it to be, or even that you and I agree that it is; and moreover it will continue to persist in being blue even if we hate it or if we don't believe that it is. In other words, the state is an objective fact.
Really, all this long winded pompous pseudointellectual deluded anticorporate Linux blather is tiresome.
Corporations are tools of advanced civilizations, nothing more and nothing less. They're a thing which can be used for good or for ill (just like a hammer or a shovel or a knife) and on their own, that's fine. However, corporations are nothing without humans to create, form, and run them, and I for one have lived more than long enough to know they're not ever to be trusted, at least not blindly.
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by MurphCID »

Wow great post.
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The Muffin Man
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by The Muffin Man »

Fun fact, Microsoft did have forethought when they hired the DEC os developers away from Digital Equipment to create Windows NT. Originally for the Alpha chip, which you could comfortably touch while it was running the Open GL Pipes screen saver, NT seemed different and was different until Microsoft merged Windows with Windows NT with Windows XP.
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by ivar »

MurphCID wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:52 pm
Speaking of old computers, are the old netbook laptops any use any more, even running Linux?
Huecuva wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:59 pm
Oh man, tell me about it. My Dell came with an 8GB SSD preloaded with Windows XP. It got to the point that I had removed everything I had installed on it just to make room and it still couldn't even do Windows updates because the 8GB was full. That has to be one of the dumbest design decisions I have ever seen.
IMO, those netbooks were crippled by design and never lived up to their potential. Limited Ram and limited expansion possibilities - and microsoft selling "starter" OS versions that were limited in how much RAM they would address (2 GB for win7 starter) .

I Have a HP Mini 5103 that I recovered from the scrap pile, atom cpu, 1 GB ram and spinning disk. I was able to run win10 on it but very sluggish. Now its running RaspberryPi OS (x86 version). Havent found any practical use for it yet so it functions as a desktop ormament for now. OS feels ok. But everything grinds to a halt if I try to open a browser, lol!
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by MurphCID »

ivar wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:21 pm
IMO, those netbooks were crippled by design and never lived up to their potential. Limited Ram and limited expansion possibilities - and microsoft selling "starter" OS versions that were limited in how much RAM they would address (2 GB for win7 starter) .

I Have a HP Mini 5103 that I recovered from the scrap pile, atom cpu, 1 GB ram and spinning disk. I was able to run win10 on it but very sluggish. Now its running RaspberryPi OS (x86 version). Havent found any practical use for it yet so it functions as a desktop ormament for now. OS feels ok. But everything grinds to a halt if I try to open a browser, lol!
I agree, but I wish they had been more capable laptops, but we may see them come back with the new generation of ARM processors.
Last edited by Moem on Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Trimmed a quote. Please quote selectively. We can all scroll up if we want to re-read.
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by MurphCID »

This is good, I forgot about this thread but Brandon is using one of the old Atom processor netbooks as a mini-server, how cool. Could this be able to save this sort of device from a landfill? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxvFuGnjoJo
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by RollyShed »

Old computers - I'm right now installing Mint 21 Cinnamon on an HP Compaq 6730b, first released 2008. Is that old enough? Another 4 minutes to go....
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by RollyShed »

And it, 21, failed to boot after installation :mrgreen:

OK, now what? Try 20.3 ..... and yes, it works OK :D
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by MurphCID »

RollyShed wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:23 pm
And it, 21, failed to boot after installation :mrgreen:

OK, now what? Try 20.3 ..... and yes, it works OK :D
Hey, at least it works! Those Atom powered netbooks were just so...interesting (my daughter calls them cute), I just wish they had been a little more capable.
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by RollyShed »

MurphCID wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:47 am
Those Atom powered netbooks were just so...interesting (my daughter calls them cute), I just wish they had been a little more capable.
The HP Compaq 6730b is termed a notebook, not a netbook. They equate to a brick, maybe not quite as thick as a brick but about as heavy as one, 2.69 kg (5.9 lb).
They have an Intel duo core CPU.
The Microsoft label has ©2005 on it (with a magnifier) but not what it is. Vista probably? The product code is readable OK.

However, old as it is, it should do well for web browsing and emails. I wasn't give the right password so I couldn't install their email which will probably be best on Thunderbird. They will pick-up it up on Monday morning.
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by MurphCID »

RollyShed wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:54 am
MurphCID wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:47 am
Those Atom powered netbooks were just so...interesting (my daughter calls them cute), I just wish they had been a little more capable.
The HP Compaq 6730b is termed a notebook, not a netbook. They equate to a brick, maybe not quite as thick as a brick but about as heavy as one, 2.69 kg (5.9 lb).
They have an Intel duo core CPU.
The Microsoft label has ©2005 on it (with a magnifier) but not what it is. Vista probably? The product code is readable OK.

However, old as it is, it should do well for web browsing and emails. I wasn't give the right password so I couldn't install their email which will probably be best on Thunderbird. They will pick-up it up on Monday morning.
Holy bricks! That is a heavy laptop! Ugh, I remember Vista, yuck. I agree it will do well for the designated use case. I just re-installed Linux on the old Darter Pro and shipped it to my friend who needs a laptop (a lot of that going on lately...). I know he will take to Linux quickly since he is somewhat tech savvy.
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by billyswong »

RollyShed wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:23 pm
And it, 21, failed to boot after installation :mrgreen:

OK, now what? Try 20.3 ..... and yes, it works OK :D
Do you mean live session works but booting after installation fail? That's funny. Which DE it is on? Cinnamon? Mate? Xfce?
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by RollyShed »

billyswong wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:24 am
RollyShed wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:23 pm
And it, 21, failed to boot after installation :mrgreen:
OK, now what? Try 20.3 ..... and yes, it works OK :D
Do you mean live session works but booting after installation fail? That's funny. Which DE it is on? Cinnamon? Mate? Xfce?
I booted 21 on the USB stick and installed. Stick removed, reboot, won't go. OK there are ways (I presume) but simply installing 20.3 and then booting the disk worked so that's the way I went.

It meant taking another 8 minutes to get 20.3 to go or an hour or so chasing how to get 21 to go.
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2006 HP Pavillion DV5000

Post by Jerry N »

I use this 2006 HP Pavillion DV5000 mainly for Firefox. This is a 32 bit machine with an Intel T2300 dual core processor with a maximum speed of 1667 MHZ. RAM has been upgraded to 2GB and the drive upgraded to a 250GB SSD. I had been running Mint Mate 19.3 for a while with good success but after a software "upgrade" the WIFI quite working. After a good bit of fiddling I downloaded 32 bit LMDE5 but I couldn't talk the machine into booting from a USB thumbdrive so I put the image on a DVD. (I have been through this before). In an earlier age I installed from DVD or CD many many times but boy is it painful when you are used to something better! Really SLOW! But it got there and everything worked fine, including the WIFI. I do not like Cinnamon and installed MATE, as I have done with LMDE5 on some of my other computers. In this configuration, the perceived speed is about the same as a Raspberry Pi Model 4 with 4GB of RAM. I won't, however, be using it for graphics or music editing and certainly won't try to run 10 applications at a time (I have a Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 based machines for that kind of work). Firefox responds very well.

Just my experience with an older machine. I also have an HP Mini 210 that is completely useless under all circumstances. It doesn't even make a good door stop :roll:
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by RollyShed »

billyswong wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:24 am
Do you mean live session works but booting after installation fail? That's funny. Which DE it is on? Cinnamon? Mate? Xfce?
Forgot to mention that, Cinnamon which is what I use on everything. The only thing it isn't on is a Nov 2009 eMachines 350 which originally had 32 bit XP and now has 32 bit MATE. However it does run on 64 bit Cinnamon as I've tried it but not worth changing as it doesn't really get used. We use modern Sept 2015 laptops instead with 64 bit 20.3 Cinnamon.
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by MurphCID »

I have thought about installing it on an older Athalon desktop system. It was my old dual core system that I gave the nephew. I maxed out the ram at 16gb of DDR3. He wants to use it as a home server.
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Re: Supporting old computers

Post by MurphCID »

If and when I build my new desktop, I think that my current Ryzen system will end up as a Linux rig of some kind.
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