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PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:59 am
by joez
After burning a Mint 14 RC DVD I attempted to boot it on my IBM ThinkPad R40 notebook, currently running Mint 13 Mate edition. Immediately I'm informed that the new kernel requires a feature not present on my cpu, an Intel Pentium M 1300 Mhz, pae (Physical Address Extention). Will Mint provide a nonpae.iso version of Mint 14, or is the intent to eliminate support for older computers to acquire matter to place in empty holes in our trash dumps? I find it disconcerting that the apps I use to accomplish work are often difficult to updated to the current version, but the OS which I only use to start them is continually being upgraded beyond the capabilities of my hardware, which is more than capable of performing the tasks to which my computer is put to use. 1 GB of RAM more than fills my needs or I would have upgraded to 2 GB, but I don't see a need of 4 GB in the near or far future, and would like to continue making use of my perfectly working IBM ThinkPad R40 with the updates and upgrades made available for the apps that I use productively.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:49 am
by xenopeek
Linux Mint 14 is based on Ubuntu 12.10. Ubuntu has decided to go with PAE kernels only from Ubuntu 12.10 onwards, so I think indeed PAE is required for Linux Mint 14.

On a side note, LMDE 32 bit comes with a 486 non-PAE kernel by default to remain compatible with non-PAE processors.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:42 am
by kmb42vt
@joez - I hate to say it but there comes a time when you have to move from "old reliable" to a newer machine. I looked up the specs of the R40 and it runs a single core non-pae processor with a max of 1.0 GB memory (cannot be upgraded to 2 GB according to specs). The specs also state it has a 20 GB HDD although yours may be different. Sure, it works fine. I have an old desktop PC in my closet that works fine but can't handle the latest OSs.

My current laptop is an older (2008) ThinkPad R61 that comes with an Intel Centrino dual core with 2 GB DDR2 and a 100 GB/7500 rpm HDD that I picked up on eBay for $199.00 that easily runs LM 14/Cinnamon (32 bit). One of these would probably last you for quite a few years just as your old R40 has. Unfortunately, you have to give up the old hardware sometime. :D

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:53 am
by joez
I think ubuntu has made available a nonPAE iso to install from as well now, but I haven't seen anything related to Mint doing the same. I have no interest at all in LMDE and if necessary we will look at other distributions that might remain more compatible with all the users I provide support for as we prefer to all be running the same OS as support is non-existent except for what a very few of us can provide where we live. The Mate Desktop was the primary reason for all of us moving to Mint from ubuntu as it runs well on everyones system. Cinnamon might be okay but won't run on everyones system, and not a single soul liked Unity.

I'll keep an eye open to see what Mint is doing and look at what other options exist in the mean time.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:02 am
by joez
kmb42vt wrote:@joez - I hate to say it but there comes a time when you have to move from "old reliable" to a newer machine. I looked up the specs of the R40 and it runs a single core non-pae processor with a max of 1.0 GB memory (cannot be upgraded to 2 GB according to specs). The specs also state it has a 20 GB HDD although yours may be different. Sure, it works fine. I have an old desktop PC in my closet that works fine but can't handle the latest OSs.

My current laptop is an older (2008) ThinkPad R61 that comes with an Intel Centrino dual core with 2 GB DDR2 and a 100 GB/7500 rpm HDD that I picked up on eBay for $199.00 that easily runs LM 14/Cinnamon (32 bit). One of these would probably last you for quite a few years just as your old R40 has. Unfortunately, you have to give up the old hardware sometime. :D
Although I'm only commenting on my computer, there are a number of others I provide assistance for who are in the same boat, having looked at /proc/cpuinfo on their systems, and many if not most are unable to afford a new or even a used newer computer which are not easy to acquire where we live. Some of these people only earn the equivalent of $6 or less a day when they can find work. While 'In with the new and out with the old' may be offered as a solution to every problem, it sometimes is not an option at all.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:02 pm
by xenopeek
You (or especially those you assist) don't have to upgrade to Linux Mint 14. There is nothing wrong with continuing to use Linux Mint 13. It is the long-term support release, with support till April 2017 (compared to April 2014 for Linux Mint 14). Of course that doesn't help you if you want to upgrade to Linux Mint 14 :|

The Pentium Ms mostly from 2003 and 2004 ("Banias") don't support PAE, but Pentium Ms mostly from 2004 and 2005 ("Dothan") do. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... processors. Again this doesn't help you, but except for those Pentium Ms listed, all x86 processors introduced since 1995 support PAE. Of course that makes these Pentium Ms that don't support PAE the cheapest and therefor the most likely to be sold in your area :|

Ubuntu doesn't provide any non-PAE kernels in its repositories from Ubuntu 12.10 onwards. If Linux Mint 14 would need to come with a non-PAE kernel, somebody needs to start building and maintaining those kernels (and offering an ISO with that kernel included). I'm forwarding this post to the developers. Note that Linux Mint 14 final has just been released, and indeed it notes "PAE required for 32-bit ISOs" (http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2216).

I'd stick with Linux Mint 13 for now. If you want to explore suggestions for other distros, that are more PAE friendly for now, suggest you post a topic on that here: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewforum.php?f=61

non-PAE kernel

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:27 am
by jelabarre59
Is there going to be an alternate Mint14 installer for non-PAE systems? Some sort of minimal/alternate installer that will at least get the system started? I'd hate to abandon LinuxMint just because it doesn't run on the majority of my systems. Installing Mint13 and upgrading from that seems outright silly, as it would involve installing an entire system, only to effectively install a whole 'nother system all over again on top of it.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:29 am
by xenopeek
jelabarre59 I've merged your topic to this one, as it concerns the same question. No updates on this yet.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:38 am
by joez
Just curious, but my understanding of the PAE CPU feature is to allow the OS to recognize and access RAM greater than 4 GB. Is it not possible for the installer to determine if the CPU is PAE enabled and install a PAE enabled or non-PAE enabled version of the kernel as a result? I'm unaware of any applications I work with 'requiring' a PAE featured CPU in order to work.

It was bad enough that Linux Mint 13 required me to uninstall 'ubiquity-slideshow-mint' in order to install it. That too should be allowed to be disabled as a choice when installing if desired or necessary.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:15 pm
by eric k
Joez, you may find this article helpful: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/11/how-to-i ... n-pae.html

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:08 pm
by aelfinn
eric k wrote:Joez, you may find this article helpful: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/11/how-to-i ... n-pae.html
I was just going to say that… ;)

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:27 pm
by joez
eric k wrote:Joez, you may find this article helpful: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/11/how-to-i ... n-pae.html
I'll have to find time to give that a try, but now have a broken system to repair. Thanks.

Upgrade 13 -> 14 PAE issue

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:44 pm
by raydar
I did a "packages" upgrade as mentioned in http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2 because the machine I run Mint on runs afoul of the new non-PAE kernel test. I didn't trust that upgrading via CD-ROM would work, though I can't vouch from experience that it won't. I succeeded, with a few bumps.

I just edited my sources.list so that everything that previously read "maya" now reads "nadia" and everything that previously read "precise" now reads "quantal," then in a root terminal executed "apt-get update" and "apt-get dist-upgrade." The process froze after a while, so I rebooted, got a semi-loaded Cinnamon session that wouldn't respond to input, switched to a different session via Alt+F6, and tried "apt-get dist-upgrade" again. It failed and suggested "apt-get dist-upgrade --fix-broken," and that worked. After it finished, I rebooted, got a normal Cinnamon session, and set the update manager loose. It registered 400-some updates, and after doing those and rebooting again, I'm running (according to System Information) Mint 14 with the 3.2.0-23-generic (i686) kernel. (The machine is a Dell Inspiron 9200 laptop with a Centrino processor which System Information identifies as a Pentium M 6,13, 6.)

What I was surprised to find was that although the machine connected right away to my wireless network as usual, it could not access the internet, unlike all the other Linux and Windows comptuers in my house. I finally found that executing "sudo dhclient wlan0" instantly solved the problem (see post #16 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1810541&page=2 ), but I wish I knew what happened and *why* that command worked.

The non-PAE problem was in fact the occasion that got me to try Mint, which at version 13 didn't yet require PAE when Ubuntu started requiring it. Ubuntu actually would install on a non-PAE machine using the "mini-ISO" CD-ROM, which conained only enough on the disc to get the format & installation going and connect to the internet so that everything else important, kernel included, could be downloaded. Could Mint perhaps offer a similar mini-ISO version that detects what kernel to download, i.e., non-PAE when appropriate?

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:42 pm
by NissanNut
I just ran into this issue also. I have an IBM t42 with mint 13. I just ordered another one of these used laptops for my son just for LinuxMint. I thought I would upgrade mine first to show him how. I only get the error in "compatibility mode". Normal boot just hangs. Both laptops have 2gigs and work awesome. Kind of sucks ubuntu changed this.

I hope they come continue to support non-PAE on the next mint rls. I would like to upgrade all 3 to stay current. Not sure if my 64bit server is PAE compatible or not. Its AMD.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:01 am
by joez
NissanNut wrote:I just ran into this issue also. I have an IBM t42 with mint 13. I just ordered another one of these used laptops for my son just for LinuxMint. I thought I would upgrade mine first to show him how. I only get the error in "compatibility mode". Normal boot just hangs. Both laptops have 2gigs and work awesome. Kind of sucks ubuntu changed this.

I hope they come continue to support non-PAE on the next mint rls. I would like to upgrade all 3 to stay current. Not sure if my 64bit server is PAE compatible or not. Its AMD.
If I understand correctly, the pae CPU feature is only related to 32 bit cpu's which 2^32 limits addressing memory addresses no greater than 4,294,967,296 bytes. A 64 bit cpu far exceeds that, with a maximum of 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 bytes addressable.

I still think it would have been nice to be given the option during installation to install the pae or non-pae kernel, and an option to disable ubiquity-slideshow-mint where it necessitates a manual removal in order to proceed with the installation.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:34 pm
by xenopeek
Clem shared that ideally Linux Mint would support non-PAE hardware, but Ubuntu doesn't build these kernels anymore. Feasibility of going that way, and how much work is involved, is being looked into. For now, Linux Mint recommends the LTS release (Linux Mint 13) for non-PAE hardware.

The article linked by eric k may be helpful, and noting that LMDE continues to support non-PAE hardware (though I understand LMDE is not for everybody, I'm just noting it).

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:37 am
by joez
Vincent Vermeulen wrote:Clem shared that ideally Linux Mint would support non-PAE hardware, but Ubuntu doesn't build these kernels anymore. Feasibility of going that way, and how much work is involved, is being looked into. For now, Linux Mint recommends the LTS release (Linux Mint 13) for non-PAE hardware.

The article linked by eric k may be helpful, and noting that LMDE continues to support non-PAE hardware (though I understand LMDE is not for everybody, I'm just noting it).
Is the difference more than:

cp .config ~/rpmbuild/SOURCES/config-i686-PAE for a PAE enabled 32 bit kernel

or

cp .config ~/rpmbuild/SOURCES/config-x86-32-generic for a non-PAE enabled kernel

when creating the kernel?

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:47 pm
by No Pae Dont Cry
Well after hours of trial and error, I have at least succeeded in a small corner of life. Defeat of the PAE devil.
1) format drive with 3 partions 1 NTFS, 1created (not formated) partition large (for linux), 1 created partition small for swap
1) Install win 7- dont bother with installing anything as it will be deleted.
2) Using Win7 , Boot Mint 14 cd/dvd (yes there is a dos program there-yea!
3) Follow the Mint cds steps.lots of whirring.and up comes the live cd. Do install from live cd but make sure you don't reboot useing the "live cd" disk. There is a SPECIAL reboot option that will write a install boot program to the HDdisk !! USE IT! (for computers having problems booting the Mint CD (like every non-PAE user).
Now for the install.....
Too good to be true..Of course my touch pad driver didnt work properly. To install I had to to tab my way around using the TAB (sometimes the space bar) and return key combination to select the options. So Perhaps it time to find that old mouse?

Reboots, Win 7 option is gone

Everything works fine with the mouse connected. It installs updates, and works great. Its like a brand new machine. Thats perhaps why pae was introduced, to make the poor, poorer.

Mr. developers, couldnt you do something complex like : if pae present use it: if not dont. Just say "sorry you dont have pae and won't be able to use your 16GB of ram"

Good luck and best wishes.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:54 pm
by justy39
I have another pc it's a d600 latitude notebook. It had the pentium M 715 1.5ghz that has no pae. After going on ebay, I picked up a MOBILE pentium4 SL6FK: 2.0ghz 400 for $9 dollars which does have pae. And now it runs linux mint 14 mate 32bit on it just fine. It does use more battery power than it used to but, I usually use a power adapter most of the time anyways.

Re: PAE required to install Mint 14

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:54 pm
by winemaker9
After playing all the 'ideas' of trying to get Mint/Ubuntu/etc. loaded on my non-pae T42 Thinkpad, I ran across a bit on interesting info and decided to give it a shot. Spent last evening loading LinuxMint Debian 32 bit /mate and, while the update did take a bit of time, it seems to have addressed the issue. It's FAST, troublefree (so far), and didn't require any special hacking/command line entries to make it work. Bottom line, if you've been frustrated by the non-pae issue, give this a try.
steve