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The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:50 am
by rustguard
What is it?

V15 Olivia Ubuntu Raring Supported until January 2014.

14 Nadia Ubuntu Quantal Supported until April 2014.

I dont get it?

All the work that must be put into a new release and it is over before it began?
Dont want to critisize, but it seems illogical? Does not compute?
I'm guessing spock aint on the the mint team and definatly not on the ubuntu team

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:06 am
by Bolle1961
Starting with 13.04 ubutnu supports the non LTS versions only 9 months instead of 18. I think it would be wise if Mint drops the non LTS versions.

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:43 am
by rustguard
Bolle1961 wrote: I think it would be wise if Mint drops the non LTS versions.
I see your logic, I think at least wait until the next release

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:40 pm
by xenopeek
This chart helps visualize the change (click to enlarge). The Linux Mint developers are considering how to proceed on non-LTS releases. Linux Mint will probably continue to have a release every 6 months, but it may change how that is done for non-LTS releases as indeed only 9 months makes it a bit useless unless you have a flawless way to upgrade in place (failure rate is still 20% on upgrade in place, as reported by Ubuntu users).

Image

5 months of support

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:56 am
by recluce
For the just-released KDE version of Mint 15, support is just 5 months. I am not sure how it makes sense to even install it with that kind of support, except to toy around with it. While the effort on behalf of the Mint team to release this is truly appreciated, I am afraid it is also somewhat wasted.

One solution might be to base Mint releases on Ubuntu LTS releases only. For example, Mint 17 through 20 could be based on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS - albeit with a growing difference in the code base. That would give a minimum of more than 3 years of support.

On the other hand, with upcoming disasters like Mir, it may be questionable if future versions of Ubuntu will be a usable base for Mint at all....

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:32 am
by tek_heretik
That's basically a new LTS every 2 years, that's fine by me. :D

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:12 am
by Lin Jones
Peppermint OS based their version on 4 on Ubuntu 13.04 and they have decided to give one year's support for it, which would be June of 2014.

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:20 pm
by Lingula
Current system would be fine for new users if it were made clearer on the download page what the purposes and limitations are of the non-LTS versions.

For example, the download page could default to latest version, but have the LTS version on the same page with note about the expiry date of support. Would be clearer for Linux newbies that way.

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:58 pm
by js3915
rustguard wrote:What is it?

V15 Olivia Ubuntu Raring Supported until January 2014.

14 Nadia Ubuntu Quantal Supported until April 2014.

I dont get it?

All the work that must be put into a new release and it is over before it began?
Dont want to critisize, but it seems illogical? Does not compute?
I'm guessing spock aint on the the mint team and definatly not on the ubuntu team
This would be ubuntu's doing since mint uses ubuntu as a base so any support really goes to ubuntu
Bolle1961 wrote:Starting with 13.04 ubutnu supports the non LTS versions only 9 months instead of 18. I think it would be wise if Mint drops the non LTS versions.
Think maybe they should look at a rolling release for normal then like an LTS release. Dont see why they couldnt use ubuntu base still and go rolling release

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:06 am
by fraxinus_63
Two suggestions:
1. accept that LTS releases will be the most appropriate ones for a very high proportion of Mint users - they need much better signposting. Most people new to Mint will have no idea there is a decision to be made here.
2. restructure the homepage, and the page with download links, so that it makes clear to people what they should consider when opting to install either a current or a LTS release.

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:35 pm
by killer de bug
Two distro : one LTS based on Ubuntu... released every 2 years.
And LMDE getting more support between these releases... :mrgreen:

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:16 am
by Snapcase
For the just-released KDE version of Mint 15, support is just 5 months.
Current system would be fine for new users if it were made clearer on the download page what the purposes and limitations are of the non-LTS versions.

For example, the download page could default to latest version, but have the LTS version on the same page with note about the expiry date of support. Would be clearer for Linux newbies that way.
That's certainly annoying. As a newcomer, I didn't noticed it until I got it all up and running. I'll keep it anyway since it's working great, but I surely would have installed the LTS version if I was aware of it.

According to the Ubuntu release cycle posted above by Xenopeek, a new LTS release is due at some point next year, isn't it? Unless LM 16 KDE results clearly superior to Olivia, I think I'll freeze here until the following LTS version is released... supported or not. It's only six months further or thereabouts.

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:47 am
by nunol
If everything goes as usually, Mint 17 LTS should be released in May or June 2014. That's 4 to 5 months after Mint 15 end of life. Upgrading to Mint 16 or downgrading to Mint 13 LTS is recommended.

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:35 am
by Snapcase
Upgrading to Mint 16 or downgrading to Mint 13 LTS is recommended.
Why? I'm used to obsolete unsupported OSs and never saw the need or the urge to upgrade (or downgrade in this case) any of them given they worked good and did the job. I've been using Mac OS 10.4 for a long while years after going unsupported with no issues. The same with 10.6 and the same for Win Vista for DAW usage. Everybody advised me to upgrade to win 7 because it was a much better OS.... better? Better than what? My DAW PC worked flawlessly with zero issues and runing always smooth. Yes, Vista... Once tuned, optimized and setup for DAW usage never had a single complaint with it regarding perfomance in years besides everybody hates Vista. Upgrading? What works good works good. Why updating to another short living provisional/testing release? That's what regular Ubuntu releases are, testing releases in between the LTS ones. I don't think waiting untill june would hurt anything... Or perhaps I'm missing something here...

Anyway, as I've said. I'll give LM 16 KDE a try whenever available but I will only take the mess of replacing LM15 if I see a very noticeable overall improvement.

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:38 am
by nunol
There are many reasons, security is one of them. The choice is yours.

Some of my computers still run Mint 9 LTS and they work fine.

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:30 pm
by Snapcase
of course, security. I guess common up-to-date windoze desktop users should be more worried about security than keeping an unsupported Linux release for a few months. :lol:

Anyway, let's see what LM 16 KDE will offer.

In other hand... if the LM 16 KDE edition is delayed like it happened with Olivia, we'll have an unsupported period anyway, isn't it? Unless going for the RC before it gets final.

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:38 pm
by xenopeek
Let's not sink the ship before it has been built, uhm, or something :) The developers are very much aware of the less than ideal support period of non-LTS releases. They are considering various scenarios on how to proceed with Linux Mint given this change. That might not take effect for Linux Mint 16, but certainly they are putting plans together for Linux Mint 18 and beyond (as Linux Mint 17 is the next LTS release, that one is "safe" and needs no discussion).

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:06 pm
by Snapcase
Good to know. Thanks Xenopeek.

Nevertheless, I'll surely stick to LTS only once LM 17 is released. If I'm in Mint 15 right now is because I just discovered Linux Mint at this given point. After six months jumping from distro to distro, in a single day testing LM I knew I've finally found the distro I've been looking for. LM 15 KDE is working wonderfully smooth and stable here, so I don't want a change until it really worths it. It's only a provisional "newbie" situation. LTS is the way to go.

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:28 am
by guruwannabe
It's 2013-Oct-5th.
Well, just a 2cents from someone still using Linux Mint 11 - 64bits :) and still running WinXp in Virtualbox in Mint11.
I was fully aware of the LTS version, but went ahead with Mint11 anyway.
I did not need to upgrade from Mint11 until now - I must have broken something when enabling 'back-port' repo, hoping to have access to newer s/w. Even-though a little 'broken', it's still an amazing work-horse!!!! And a very beautiful one as well.
There are still lots of stuff I do in Mint11:
1) Day to day home/office stuffs like WebSurfing and Office Apps
2) Watch Movies - VLC and Bino (Cinema 3D movies) yep passive 3D in Mint11 with on-board graphics!
3) Transmission Bit-torrenting, Evolution (email, scheduling and contact mgt)
4) Video Conversion and Media Server for my TV
5) VNC & SSH connection from Smart-phone and Android tablet
6) Multimedia apps - Hydrogen Drum Machine, Handbrake ...
7) Virtualbox - other OSes and LiveCD testing, WebDevelopment - LAMPserver, Turnkey PDC (webmin...). Cisco Packet Tracer in Mint11 guest OS. Yep Mint in Mint.
8 ) GNS3 in Mint11
9) Sweet-Home-3D portable (64bit linux java version)
10) Clam-AV anit-virus (to protect my other friends - until they find Linux)

BTW, I came b/c I am also in a dilemma, Mint15 or Mint13-LTS??
Mint15 with all bleeding-edge bells and whistles and live a few months 'un-supported' then Mint17-LTS or
Mint13 and stay-put until 2017 or maybe even 2018, 19 ... until I miss or needed newer s/w features.
Looks like it's no upgrade in-place but clean install for this. When installing Mint11, one article taught me to have my File System arranged: /; /boot; /home; /usr; /var and separate /swap partition. Looking forward for an easy transition.

Anyway, it couldn't be wrong - it's Linux, it's Mint!! :)
Hope this help somebody :)
- Asus P8Z68-V PRO; intel i7-2600k with 8gb RAM
- on-board HDMI --> Asus VG23AH (passive 3D monitor)

Re: The Mint 15 joke

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:21 am
by InkKnife
I agree that Mint should emphasize the LTS releases more and present the interim releases as "enthusiast" releases. I think that would be very appropriate for an end user friendly dstro like Mint.
That being said, nuking and paving every 6 months is not a problem if you have a proper backup plan. I can go from wipe to a ready to use PC in less than an hour. Mint has included some new tools that make this even easier. I think a bit too much is made of the effort to do a clean install.
We are all geeks here, ain't we supposed to like doing that sort of thing? 8)
You can upgrade in place if you are slightly tech competent and are willing to accept a 20% failure risk.
I have been enjoying the ride going from Mint12 to Mint15, lots of great changes, but come Mint17 I am going to kick back and relax. Turn on backports and Romeo and enjoy what is along the lines of a rolling release for 2 or 5 years depending on how my mood goes.