Not happy with Petra. How do I downgrade?

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kclymer
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Not happy with Petra. How do I downgrade?

Post by kclymer » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:32 pm

Well if you read my previous post, you would know that the wifi doesn't work since i upgraded from petra. Now the damn login screen won't display. Instead I get this message, "login has attempted to display 6 times in 90 seconds. It's likely something has gone bad" The only option is to hit ok. Thanks so much Linux Mint devs for screwing things up royally!!!! All I did and ALL I did was reboot. Nothing more. So now my laptop is a paperweight as far as I'm concerned. Thanks! I suggest anyone thinking of upgrading to this version. Don't, unless you're an expert.

I want to go to an LTS version. I want to leave this bad memory behind. I want a computer that works, not something to tinker with. Maybe I'll go with just straight debian since I don't feel like constantly experimenting with the instability of the month.
Last edited by kclymer on Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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karlchen
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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by karlchen » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:53 pm

Hello, kclymer.

Sorry to read that you have experienced too much trouble with Mint 16 in order to like it. - It will not change your mind knowing that Mint 16 32-bit "Petra" Cinnamon edition worked without problems from the very start here on my Zotac "mini pizza box". No fiddling around with anything to make it work properly. Simply did so out of the box. - Hm, one exception, which affects the apt sources file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list and which has been explained here (problem and solution).

Anyway:
Downgrading an operating system always means:
+ backup your data files to an external medium
+ boot from the live system of the operating system that you are going to install
+ re-install everything from the scratch
+ restore your backed up data files

This is no different when downgrading from Mint 16 to Mint 15, Mint 14 or Mint 13.
There is no other downgrade path than the one briefly layed out above.
Sorry.
The current LTS edition is Mint 13. Cf. here, please.
The next LTS edition will be Mint 17. It will be available some time in May 2014, I assume.

Kind regards,
Karl
--
<Added>
Reference to the one common error that seems to occur frequently on a freshly installed Mint 16.
</Added>
Last edited by karlchen on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by kclymer » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:59 pm

I'm just going to perform a clean install to the LTS version (13). I'm going to lose some important data though and I'm very angry about it. It took a lot of work to get my computer the way I wanted it. I had mint running like a finely oiled machine with Olivia. I'm really really upset that my universe has been screwed up. I'm going to 13 simply because I like stability and I don't like people messing with my universe and since I'm using the computer for work as well...I need stability.

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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by Orbmiser » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:06 pm

Well to be fair there are many more by a huge factor that have zero issues with it.
Sounds like you were one of the unlucky ones with something specific change to prior version or a hardware issue.
So blaming Mint for something that is specific to your setup is a bit unfair. I know it's frustrating. But to expect 100% problem free Linux is a bit unrealistic if using the fresh and new distribution.

I also recently switched to mint forked Debian semi-rolling monthly update packs going with SolydXK. Unfortunately they only have a KDE or Xfce versions that they support and no intention making a Cinnamon edition available. SolydXK is based on Testing branch so my apps DE and kernel are reasonably newer tho not bleeding edge. And App versions are pretty new month to three old. And the Solyd team puts the testings repos thru another round of testing for any major bugs and add to stability. And last 4 monthly updates were smooth and stable and zero issues.

If you don't mind what many call stale there is Debian Stable branch. And don't know how well the latest Cinnamon fares on it?
If wanting LTS Then maybe something older of the Mint line like Mint 13? etc...

The very nature if wanting newer apps or kernel or latest Desktop in itself is inherently more unstable with certain types of hardware setups especially when it comes to proprietary graphics drivers. And latest will always have more bugs and stability issues to be dealt with as they become apparent.

But blaming Mint or Linux when it's a specific issue due to your specific hardware setup. Is a bit unfair by not placing the blame on your hardware instead of the easier out to just blame Linux. Linux tries really hard to keep compatibility with all the different hardware and chipsets out there but is a daunting task and unrealistic expectations to keep on top of all them 100% of the time.

Update: Yep the other issue of stability is backing up your data. When system is running fine is to use a program to snapshot and backup your data or partitions. I use Redo Backup for backing up my / and /home as partitions on a external usb drive where I can roll back to working in 15 mins with zero loss of data. And I keep personal data backed up on multiple external usb drives in case of failure.
.
Last edited by Orbmiser on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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karlchen
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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by karlchen » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:29 pm

Hello, kclymer.
I'm just going to perform a clean install to the LTS version (13).
OK. Nothing wrong with that.
I'm going to lose some important data though and I'm very angry about it.
This would be your own fault. The very first step in my brief list for downgraing is backing up your data files. If you fail to do so you can only blame yourself, no-one else.
I'm going to 13 simply because [...] I'm using the computer for work as well...I need stability.
I can appreciate this approach. Guess which Linux Mint version has been running on my office notebook for the past 18 months and for which reasons?! - Exactly, Mint 13 Cinnamon, by now with the Ubuntu 12.10 Quantal kernel series 3.5.0-xx and the Quantal hardware support stack enabled. For the simple reason that by now my hardware is too new for the 3.2.0-xx kernel series that Mint 13 will bring along out of the box.
(Cf. here, Linux mint 13 Maya (mate) freezes on Dell Latitude E6230)

Wish you success in downgrading, but do backup all your datafiles first and restore them after the installation has been finished.

Kind regards,
Karl
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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by kclymer » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:49 pm

Well to be fair there are many more by a huge factor that have zero issues with it.
Sounds like you were one of the unlucky ones with something specific change to prior version or a hardware issue.
So blaming Mint for something that is specific to your setup is a bit unfair. I know it's frustrating. But to expect 100% problem free Linux is a bit unrealistic if using the fresh and new distribution.

I also recently switched to mint forked Debian semi-rolling monthly update packs going with SolydXK. Unfortunately they only have a KDE or Xfce versions that they support and no intention making a Cinnamon edition available. SolydXK is based on Testing branch so my apps DE and kernel are reasonably newer tho not bleeding edge. And App versions are pretty new month to three old. And the Solyd team puts the testings repos thru another round of testing for any major bugs and add to stability. And last 4 monthly updates were smooth and stable and zero issues.

If you don't mind what many call stale there is Debian Stable branch. And don't know how well the latest Cinnamon fares on it?
If wanting LTS Then maybe something older of the Mint line like Mint 13? etc...

The very nature if wanting newer apps or kernel or latest Desktop in itself is inherently more unstable with certain types of hardware setups especially when it comes to proprietary graphics drivers. And latest will always have more bugs and stability issues to be dealt with as they become apparent.

But blaming Mint or Linux when it's a specific issue due to your specific hardware setup. Is a bit unfair by not placing the blame on your hardware instead of the easier out to just blame Linux. Linux tries really hard to keep compatibility with all the different hardware and chipsets out there but is a daunting task and unrealistic expectations to keep on top of all them 100% of the time.
Orbmiser wrote: Update: Yep the other issue of stability is backing up your data. When system is running fine is to use a program to snapshot and backup your data or partitions. I use Redo Backup for backing up my / and /home as partitions on a external usb drive where I can roll back to working in 15 mins with zero loss of data. And I keep personal data backed up on multiple external usb drives in case of failure.
.
Yeah...This is definitely a very very hard lesson on the importance of backing things up. What's hard to back up though is configurations. For example you work really hard to get a program working in wine. You finally get it where you want and......I mean files can be saved but that latter, much harder.

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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by Brahim Salem » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:44 pm

very unusual :roll: :roll: Linux MInt 16 Petra is the best OS I've ever seen :shock:
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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by Orbmiser » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:05 pm

Totally agree with you on the confusion and difficulty of backing up settings and config files.
What's hard to back up though is configurations. For example you work really hard to get a program working in wine. You finally get it where you want and......I mean files can be saved but that latter, much harder.
Well that is why I just do mirror partitions backups vs. individual files backups. As find it way to confusing finding all the config files in the morass known as the linux file system. Configs root or home? apps installed root or home? in .dot folders down 2 or 4 levels? Is that all of them for a particular app? Or is there other configs that are needed to be backed up also?

Just way too confusing for my liking. As I run linux to get things done.
Not wasting time searching thru a sea of confusing Where R U ? settings & config files :shock:
.

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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by Flemur » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:16 pm

Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!!

Works great here.

since i upgraded from petra.

What did you upgrade to?

How do I downgrade?

Restore your previous install from the backup you made of it. Should take about 5 minutes.
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?

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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by Tejas_0 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:09 am

Brahim wrote:very unusual :roll: :roll: Linux MInt 16 Petra is the best OS I've ever seen :shock:
IMHO Nadia was much better stability-wise(Firefox implementation) and performance-wise(windows management). Don't know about Olivia, as couldn't use it.

If you can't use Petra to backup, use a Live System from DVD/CD to do it.
Release: Linux Mint 16 "petra"
Edition: Cinnamon 32-bit
Linux mint 3.11.0-12-generic #19-Ubuntu SMP Wed Oct 9 16:12:00 UTC 2013 i686 athlon i686 GNU/Linux

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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by TBABill » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm

kclymer wrote:Well if you read my previous post, you would know that the wifi doesn't work since i upgraded from petra. Now the damn login screen won't display. Instead I get this message, "login has attempted to display 6 times in 90 seconds. It's likely something has gone bad" The only option is to hit ok. Thanks so much Linux Mint devs for screwing things up royally!!!! All I did and ALL I did was reboot. Nothing more. So now my laptop is a paperweight as far as I'm concerned. Thanks! I suggest anyone thinking of upgrading to this version. Don't, unless you're an expert.

I want to go to an LTS version. I want to leave this bad memory behind. I want a computer that works, not something to tinker with. Maybe I'll go with just straight debian since I don't feel like constantly experimenting with the instability of the month.
I saw in a later post in the thread that you're using the machine for work as well. In that regard, I'd never recommend one of the incremental versions of Mint unless you have a hardware specific need that isn't supported in the LTS. The incremental versions have such a short support window now that there's not much sense experimenting so often with a machine used for work. Plus your data is very important and can be at risk in a newer version once you experience glitches that may not have been caught in testing.

It's frustrating to go through it, but at least you now have perspective on the ramifications of risk/reward for going with latest and greatest.

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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by bobafetthotmail » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:35 am

kclymer wrote:Thanks so much Linux Mint devs for screwing things up royally!!!! All I did and ALL I did was reboot. Nothing more. So now my laptop is a paperweight as far as I'm concerned. Thanks!
Doing in-place upgrades is possible but not supported by Ubuntu devs (try to guess why).
I guess you ignored the warnings that said doing in-place upgrades was risky, and were too reckless to have backups handy just in case.
I'm 99% sure that if you just went and created another partition where you would install Petra and multiboot for a while, then keep Olivia until you are sure that Petra works 100%, you would have no issues.

And seriously, if you are using your computer for serious things and don't have backups and disk images to restore it in case of disaster, you are not going to get a lot of sympathy from me. What you did was reckless, and any consequence is your fault only. Linux does not come with any guarantee that ANYTHING will work at all, it's not a commercial product.

BACKUP! BACKUP! BACKUP! BACKUP! is ghospel for any serious PC user regardless of OS (as you can f-up windows too in no time). Plenty of excellent imaging software bootable disks available.

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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by kclymer » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:36 am

bobafetthotmail wrote:
kclymer wrote:Thanks so much Linux Mint devs for screwing things up royally!!!! All I did and ALL I did was reboot. Nothing more. So now my laptop is a paperweight as far as I'm concerned. Thanks!
Doing in-place upgrades is possible but not supported by Ubuntu devs (try to guess why).
I guess you ignored the warnings that said doing in-place upgrades was risky, and were too reckless to have backups handy just in case.
I'm 99% sure that if you just went and created another partition where you would install Petra and multiboot for a while, then keep Olivia until you are sure that Petra works 100%, you would have no issues.

And seriously, if you are using your computer for serious things and don't have backups and disk images to restore it in case of disaster, you are not going to get a lot of sympathy from me. What you did was reckless, and any consequence is your fault only. Linux does not come with any guarantee that ANYTHING will work at all, it's not a commercial product.

BACKUP! BACKUP! BACKUP! BACKUP! is ghospel for any serious PC user regardless of OS (as you can f-up windows too in no time). Plenty of excellent imaging software bootable disks available.
TBABill wrote:
kclymer wrote:Well if you read my previous post, you would know that the wifi doesn't work since i upgraded from petra. Now the damn login screen won't display. Instead I get this message, "login has attempted to display 6 times in 90 seconds. It's likely something has gone bad" The only option is to hit ok. Thanks so much Linux Mint devs for screwing things up royally!!!! All I did and ALL I did was reboot. Nothing more. So now my laptop is a paperweight as far as I'm concerned. Thanks! I suggest anyone thinking of upgrading to this version. Don't, unless you're an expert.

I want to go to an LTS version. I want to leave this bad memory behind. I want a computer that works, not something to tinker with. Maybe I'll go with just straight debian since I don't feel like constantly experimenting with the instability of the month.
I saw in a later post in the thread that you're using the machine for work as well. In that regard, I'd never recommend one of the incremental versions of Mint unless you have a hardware specific need that isn't supported in the LTS. The incremental versions have such a short support window now that there's not much sense experimenting so often with a machine used for work. Plus your data is very important and can be at risk in a newer version once you experience glitches that may not have been caught in testing.

It's frustrating to go through it, but at least you now have perspective on the ramifications of risk/reward for going with latest and greatest.
That is very true, it was reckless not to back up. I guess I underestimated the situation because from my perspective the mint 15 worked so well (better than windows) that I thought, what's the worst that could happen? Well now I know. Still I read in the forums that people want to not use windows ever again. I hear you but I think if the goal is for lots of people to quit windows, then less releases, long term stability etc. Remember your average person is NOT computer savy. This is where we're getting our clocks cleaned by Windows. Everyone knows that the security stinks, but they have also made windows so easy even an old lady can use it. If I'm using the computer for something serious, I can't drop what I have and tinker. I think if linux devs kept these things in mind, linux would have more users. More users means more donations. More donations means more developers, and it grows on its own.

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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by Tejas_0 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:46 am

Well said.
Release: Linux Mint 16 "petra"
Edition: Cinnamon 32-bit
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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by jungle_boy » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:58 am

I liked Petra, kde and cinnamon are wonderful, the problem is that they don't run well with hybrid graphics cards. I've downgraded for LM 14.
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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by bobafetthotmail » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:11 pm

kclymer wrote:if the goal is for lots of people to quit windows
Afaik there is no such goal.
Everyone knows that the security stinks, but they have also made windows so easy even an old lady can use it.
Sure. Old ladies can reinstall/upgrade windows on devices and find/download/install drivers for all their hardware in a snap. And trigger a system restore when an automatic update screwed up Internet Explorer or whatever. Or do a scandisk/defrag when they think it is needed.

And let's not get in the aggravation that is even thinking about installing Windows 8 on hardware that does not come with it preinstalled.

The only "easy" thing that Windows has is that it comes preinstalled so the user cannot go wrong in that (like Apple or android devices). You buy and it works. For a while at least. System maintenance is still beyond the grasp of most mere mortals (because it's complex), as Sevenforums.com and other similar unofficial support forums testify.

So far, the only "easy" operating system is Android or iOS. And then they wonder why the PC sales are plummeting...
If I'm using the computer for something serious, I can't drop what I have and tinker.
Failure to read documentation is a user error. You can't just assume that it works the same as Windows. I can agree, it's a common mistake but hey, Linux!
More users means more donations. More donations means more developers, and it grows on its own.
a pretty high amount of developers work for free (especially the ones fixing bugs), some receive gifts from a foundation, or are employed by hardware companies (there are some that are actually employed, but they are not the majority). This is open source, not beggarware lol.
I think if linux devs kept these things in mind, linux would have more users.
I think that being more clear about support cycles would benefit everyone. If it was more apparent, less people would do mistakes even if they don't read the documentation.
jungle_boy wrote:I liked Petra, kde and cinnamon are wonderful, the problem is that they don't run well with hybrid graphics cards. I've downgraded for LM 14.
This should hopefully change with the 3.13 kernels where they add support for that.

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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by gold_finger » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:28 pm

@kclymer,

If you have not read Linux is Not Windows, now would be a good time to do so.
kclymer wrote:Still I read in the forums that people want to not use windows ever again.
Anyone who wants to do that can -- as long as they are WILLING to LEARN something new and take the time necessary to accomplish that.
kclymer wrote:I hear you but I think if the goal is for lots of people to quit windows, then less releases, long term stability etc.
Your making a big ASSUMPTION as to the "goal" of the developers. I suspect it has more to do with making a system that works well for those who CHOOSE to use it, add new features when possible, generally improve the system over time, etc. LinuxMint devs try to also make it relatively simple to get a system up and running for those with minimal prior Linux experience -- and they've done a damn good job of that! The "goal" of quitting Windows may be the goal of individuals themselves when trying Linux, and one of the goals of the developers may be to make that easier to accomplish for those people, but (as the saying goes) they "can only lead the horse to water, they can't make him drink it." Once people make the choice for themselves to use Linux, it's up to them to learn the new skills necessary to accomplish the tasks they use the computer for. It's not up to the Linux devs to hold their hands, pat them on the head, read their minds, give them a bottle when they throw a temper tantrum, etc., etc.
kclymer wrote:Remember your average person is NOT computer savy. This is where we're getting our clocks cleaned by Windows.
If that statement is motivated by frustration felt with MS & others' seemingly endless desire to extract money from your wallet through planned obsolecence and similar tactics, I completely understand. I also understand the desire to let others know that there exists a choice for them to get out from under that yoke. However, not everyone sees things that way. For some, the tools they use in Windows are better than what's available under Linux. For others, the opposite may be true. Some just don't care one way or the other and just use what they know. If someone wants Windows -- they should use Windows! If they want to use Linux, they can -- but they need to learn how to use it. (Just like when they first learned Windows -- they weren't born knowing how to use it!) If they do not want to learn Linux -- they should continue using Windows! If they do not have the ability to learn Linux, it is not the responsibility of the Linux devs and current Linux users to bend over backwards and waste their time dumbing down the system to meet their needs -- they've already got a choice, Windows.

Some distros may choose to target a more computer-illiterate audience, while others cater to experienced users only. That's fine too! But it's impossible to be all things to all people and have everyone happy with the result. For example, Ubuntu lost a lot of people over the past couple of years, myself included, when choosing to go too far (in my opinion) in the "dumb down" direction. Contrary to my feelings on that, tens of thousands of others really like the changes they made. I'm sure that plenty of people switched from other distros TO Ubuntu because they prefer the Unity desktop. Fortunately, with Linux, one has a choice to move on to another distro that better fits their needs, or even build their own if they wish.

Generally speaking, the Linux community is more than willing to help fellow users solve their problems. Speaking only for myself here, I have no problem helping someone who is a total newbie asking questions that may "seem" stupid or simple to a more experienced user. It wasn't that long ago that I was a complete newbie and I understand how confusing Linux (and the terminology) can be at first. (After four years, I still consider myself to be more of a newbie than an expert despite feeling very comfortable using Linux now.) But I do have a big problem with LAZY people who make demands and throw temper tantrums, expecting others to do everything for them. Maybe you didn't mean to come across like that, but that's how I interpreted your first post on this thread. Whining and crying about things that are all of your own doing, while blaming all your problems on others. If you can't be bothered to read and/or look for the most basic information -- what the difference is between LTS and other releases -- before you plow ahead with something you know nothing about, then you have no right to complain and certainly no right to make demands of anyone to come to your aid or satisfy YOUR misplaced desires.

Sorry for the rant. If you decide to stick with Linux and need assistance in the future: take a deep breath, state your problem as clearly as you can, and don't begin by attacking the people who would be inclined to help. You'll get much better responses that way.
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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by MALsPa » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:53 pm

kclymer wrote:Maybe I'll go with just straight debian since I don't feel like constantly experimenting with the instability of the month.
Yeah, Debian Stable is a better choice than Mint, in my opinion, but it depends on where your priorities lie, I guess.

Looks like Mint 16 is working fine for tons of other people but not for you. Is it the Mint devs screwing things up, or is it you? Or is it just a hardware issue? Whatever, too bad your universe got screwed up. What I'd do: Get over it, back up my stuff, and do what I have to do. Period.

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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by jungle_boy » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:09 pm

MALsPa wrote:Yeah, Debian Stable is a better choice than Mint, in my opinion, but it depends on where your priorities lie, I guess.
I tried 3 times to use Debian, I've never been able to install google earth nor dvd styler...
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Re: Petra is absolutely TERRIBLE!!! How do I downgrade?

Post by MartyMint » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:16 pm

bobafetthotmail wrote:Doing in-place upgrades is possible but not supported by Ubuntu devs (try to guess why).

What? Since when? :?

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