Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

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What direction Linux Mint move on after 2016?

Linux Mint would remain based on Ubuntu
22
34%
Linux Mint would base itself on Debian
32
49%
Linux Mint would become a totally independent distribution
11
17%
 
Total votes: 65

intelamd
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Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by intelamd »

Linux Mint would remain based on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS until 2016. In the meantime Ubuntu is undergoing many changes and also there is tension between Ubuntu and Linux Mint going on for sometime. Besides Linux Mint has developed their LMDE version based on Debian to remain relevant in case they are unable to offer Ubuntu based Linux Mint in future. Its also possible that Linux Mint becomes a totally independent distribution based on neither Ubuntu nor Debian. What direction do you think LInux Mint would move on after 2016? :)

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InkKnife
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by InkKnife »

I think it all depends on what Canonical does.
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by skywolfblue »

Mint still receives a lot of benefit from Ubuntu's code base. As long as Mint can pick and choose what ubuntu parts they want, all should be fine. They can have all the benefits of ubuntu compatibility, without having to follow some of the more silly canonical choices, like Mir.

I see no need to drop ubuntu completely.

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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by fu-sen »

It will be the status quo. Because there is all these support.

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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by The Dark Side »

I would really like view Linux Mint done completely independent distribution of a good time. It would be something awesome, but somewhat complicated. Is that the Linux Mint Team it's small, so it is difficult to see how this thing. But it would be great !!!! Independent Linux Mint !!!!

How to option 2 would follow betting on the good things about Ubuntu, which are also several. It would not be wrong to continue with the good habits of Ubuntu. Yes, discarding bad ideas of Canonical, how Unity and Mir. Best Regards.-
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monkeyboy
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by monkeyboy »

After conferring with the Oracle at Delphi, peering down the Time Tunnel and contacting Nostradamus I realize no one can see into the future? :D
If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

Complaining is like masticating most anyone can do it.
However doing it in public is really hardcore.

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Reorx
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by Reorx »

I think it has been announced that Mint will be using the Ubuntu 14.04 code base for the next 5 years (until 2019). After that it will be anybody's guess... but my guess is that by spring 2019, Ubu will so far down the road on its left turn that its code will be essentially useless to the Mint team... and over the next 5 years Mint will be refining and honing LMDE... 5 years is about 10 UPs (@2 per year)... so that by the time the 14.04 code base reaches the end of its support life, LMDE should be a nicely mature, refined, and polished project... add to that the fact that the Mint won't have to fiddle with intermediate Ubu code with progressively worsening divergence and can focus a much larger part of their time to polishing LMDE - I think it is a foregone conclusion that Mint will be primarily Debian based (LMDE) within the next 2 to 5 years... the exact timing isn't all that important although I expect it to happen in 2016 or 2017 to give the users of LM17 a 2 year overlap to make the transition to LMDE (or Mint 18 - see below). In May of 2019, Mint will be completely Ubu-free.

Between now and 2019, Mint may do "point" releases still based on the 14.04 code base - e.g.: Mint 17.1, Mint 17.2, etc... Point versions will contain improvements, bug fixes, expansion, and refinements to the Mint code base - basically incremental maturation of the Mint code...

LMDE will always remain a rolling release the way it is now... Perhaps a bit more polished & stable but rolling and never needing "re-installation". Once Mint is Ubu-free, the LMDE name or designation may be changed as LMDE will no longer be usefully descriptive because all Mint will be Debian based. The new name might be something like Linux Mint Perpetual (you heard it here first!)...

Mint 18 - Rosalinda (whenever it comes out) will be based on the latest Debian stable version. Subsequent numbered versions of Mint will be based on subsequent Debian stable versions... All Mint numbered versions will be supported as long as the underlying Debian stable version.

Fact key: I believe the first sentence is actually a fact... the rest of this post is my speculation, hope, desire, etc. for Linux Mint. Any similarity to anything that may actually happen in the real world is merely a coincidence... :lol:

...Keep on Minting... :mrgreen:
- R -
Full time Linux Mint user since 2011 - Currently running LM19 Cinnamon.

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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by xenopeek »

Reorx wrote:I think it has been announced that Mint will be using the Ubuntu 14.04 code base for the next 5 years (until 2019).
[...]
Fact key: I believe the first sentence is actually a fact...
Nope :) The next 3 releases of Linux Mint will based on the Ubuntu 14.04 LTS release, and they all have support till April 2019 (5 years). In 2016 Linux Mint 18 will be released, based on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS release and again the next 3 releases after that will likely be based on that also. I say likely, as that's not set in stone.

It currently makes a lot of sense to stay on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS base for the next 2 years, while Canonical experiments with Mir, migrating to systemd, migrating Unity to Qt, and so on with the next few development releases of Ubuntu.
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by 1.618 »

Not wishing to take this thread of topic, but if you already have ubuntu 14.04 as a base or 16.04 in a few years time, then why does it matter what canonical does? you have the ubuntu code already, you are free to edit/change/alter/improve/worsen at your own leisure and turn it into another distro if you really want, is that not how mint came to be? surely the mint team could if they really wanted to, take the ubuntu code from 10.10 and play with it and turn it into mint 18? (a lot of i work i know, but not outside the realm of possibilities?)

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xenopeek
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by xenopeek »

1.618 wrote:a lot of i work i know, but not outside the realm of possibilities?
"a lot of work"... Canonical has a staff of well over 500 paid full-time employees. I don't know what kind of donation you are intending to do to bring Linux Mint up to those numbers, but thank you! That's awesome :D

In seriousness, think a bit longer on this. Over 60,000 packages in the Ubuntu repositories; how do you figure the Linux Mint developers would manage to maintain that many packages? They're not sticking to Ubuntu 14.04 LTS base because they want to spend more work on maintenance. It makes sense to stick to that base, both from avoiding the upheaval and instability that will be happening over next two years with the Ubuntu development releases and from reducing the amount of maintenance work so the Linux Mint developers have more time to focus on Cinnamon and MATE development.
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by 1.618 »

xenopeek wrote:Canonical has a staff of well over 500 paid full-time employees.
I didn't realise they had that many staff, my bad!
xenopeek wrote: In seriousness, think a bit longer on this. Over 60,000 packages in the Ubuntu repositories; how do you figure the Linux Mint developers would manage to maintain that many packages? They're not sticking to Ubuntu 14.04 LTS base because they want to spend more work on maintenance. It makes sense to stick to that base, both from avoiding the upheaval and instability that will be happening over next two years with the Ubuntu development releases and from reducing the amount of maintenance work so the Linux Mint developers have more time to focus on Cinnamon and MATE development.
I get why they want a stable base, 14.04 gives them that... but I was thinking along the lines that if canonical went off at a tangent and totally changed ubuntu, then mint still has the stable 14.04 base and it's packages to work from so they could make improvements and updates to the 14.04 base regardless of canonicals direction, obviously that's not factoring in staffing levels and package numbers ( I didn't realise it was in excess of 60k! that is a lot of code! )

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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by Reorx »

Fact key (EDITED): There are no actual facts in this post (thanx Xeno :mrgreen: )... the entire post is my speculation, hope, desire, etc. for Linux Mint. Any similarity to anything that may actually happen in the real world is merely a coincidence... :lol:

...Keep on Minting... :mrgreen:
- R -
Full time Linux Mint user since 2011 - Currently running LM19 Cinnamon.

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MartyMint
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by MartyMint »

1.618 wrote:...they could make improvements and updates to the 14.04 base regardless of canonicals direction...
Packages and code base which reside on Canonical's servers, let me remind you.

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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by 1.618 »

MartyMint wrote:
1.618 wrote:...they could make improvements and updates to the 14.04 base regardless of canonicals direction...
Packages and code base which reside on Canonical's servers, let me remind you.
Noted, I'm still learning :-)

var
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by var »

I would be more concerned about what Linux in general would do after 2016. Think of it from a developers perspective, you have been creating apps, games etc based on Ubuntu 12.04 (which is standard for devs) so it works on most Linux distro's. But, then Mir would be here after 2016 and suddenly you need to support (and test) not only on x.org/Wayland but also on Mir on the latest 16.04 LTS (since devs usually base their apps on the first LTS (12.04 instead of 14.04 etc).

So how many indie devs (or large ones) would say "pfft this is too much trouble, lets just test for Ubuntu 16.04 and Mir"?

Suddenly a lot of apps and games would have some issues with a non Mir display server, in-turn making people switch from their distro of choice to Ubuntu.

I assume we will have many 'R.I.P' distro's after 2016 because of this. But of course, it's just speculation.

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turtlebay777
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by turtlebay777 »

What if they decided to follow the direction and base of Red Hat? That would blow away some cobwebs!

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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by xenopeek »

var wrote: But, then Mir would be here after 2016 and suddenly you need to support (and test) not only on x.org/Wayland but also on Mir on the latest 16.04 LTS (since devs usually base their apps on the first LTS (12.04 instead of 14.04 etc).
Both Wayland and Mir can run X IIRC (XWayland and XMir [based on XWayland]), so there is a contingency for X. Anyway, with everything of note (Red Hat/Fedora, SUSE/OpenSUSE, GNOME, KDE, and so on) except Unity moving to Wayland it might still be the case Mir is the one in trouble. In short, enterprise is moving to Wayland. With SteamOS using Debian with GNOME, I don't see that going to Mir either. Unless Valve changes Debian base for Ubuntu base, eventually SteamOS is likely to move to Wayland also. As things stand, most Linux gaming might be done on SteamOS by 2016.

Perhaps this will be another SysV vs Upstart vs systemd where when Debian makes a committed choice to go for Wayland, Canonical will be forced to switch also or start maintaining all of Debian's packages on its own (isn't it still like almost all packages in Ubuntu come directly from Debian?). I've forgotten what the argument was for Canonical to not work with Wayland to make it fit with their needs... I don't really care as I'm already running Wayland and that works on multiple distros, and everything I use is either already working with Wayland or switching to Wayland :wink:

As for Linux Mint, they don't have to look or think about any of this stuff till development cycle of Linux Mint 18 in 2016.
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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by RacerBG »

I want independence! :mrgreen: But I don't know how on earth this can happen...
Proud of Linux Mint!

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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by DeMus »

Getting free from Canonical is not a bad idea, but on the other hand look what it brought us in the last years. LinuxMint became big because of, for a major part, Canonical. Yes, of course, we do have LMDE which skipped the man in the middle, but can LMDE really compete with the main version? I don't know, I don't use LMDE, so it is a sincere question. I can just tell you what happened here this weekend:
I wanted to try something else than Mint 17 KDE and I decided to try OpenSuse 13.1. I got it installed, I even managed to do that on several RAID disks which you can setup during install, but the installed version was so slow. Clicking on the Firefox icon didn't do anything for at least 6 seconds. Then the program started and again 5-6 seconds of nothing before it even started looking for a webpage. No, this is not for me.
Then I thought about a rolling release, but one with the KDE desktop since for me there is no other one. I then installed SolydK, but it was not good. Installer is crappy to say the least, one of my favorite programs didn't work because of a wrong version of a library, I couldn't install the Nvidia driver my card so deperately needs.
In between I installed Debian 7.6 and was thrown back in time. Also here I saw the lag I saw with OpenSuse.
Then I took my Mint 17 KDE iso and wrote it on a USB stick: 15 minutes later I had a working computer again. Isn't it fantastic? Mint just works, everything works. It's fast, it looks good (well, mainly because of the KDE desktop), I can install whatever I want/need. My GT760 has its Nvidia driver, sound works great, network is fast: Super.
So, why do I keep trying to get something else? I have no idea.

Now I know that both LMDE and SolydK are based on Debian, one with Cinnamon and Mate, the other with KDE and XFCE. If LMDE is like SolydK then I fear the worst. I know I can try LMDE but it would mean I would have to give up KDE and that causes pain, a lot of pain.

Since Mint is a small team it needs a solid base from another group. Ubuntu has served us well all these years. We can comment Ubuntu but is it fair? Yes, they do things we don't like so we do it differently. (we is the LinuxMint team, not including me even though it sounded like that :lol: ) Thing is we will need Ubuntu to keep getting these rock solid editions, with many changes maybe, but we do need the basis. I'm afraid that building on Debian alone, although Debian is the number one in stability because of its long testing cycle, won't do it.

Xenopeek mentioned Mint 18 will appear in 2016 as an LTS version. Does this mean there won't be any short term version in between? Did I miss something while being busy to get other distro's to work? Will there only be updates and after 2 years a new release? It is something I have been saying for years in several forums already. I mean every half year a new release, a new install, a new config, new testing and changing and then when things are finally working like you want it to work, yet another release is born so you can start all over again. It means we only use releases to install them and to set them up correctly.
With just LTS releases we can also do something else with our computers than being busy installing the OS.

My choice would be to continue with just LTS releases, once every 2 years, giving the team a lot of time to really test their product before it is released, making the final product rock solid, lightning fast and hopefully NSA proof.

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Re: Linux Mint after 2016! What do you expect?

Post by tdockery97 »

DeMus wrote:Xenopeek mentioned Mint 18 will appear in 2016 as an LTS version. Does this mean there won't be any short term version in between? Did I miss something while being busy to get other distro's to work? Will there only be updates and after 2 years a new release?
Yes, sort of. In between Mint 17 and Mint 18 will be point releases (17.1, 17.2, etc.), mainly with the goal of improving and updating the current LTS, and of course leading up to the next LTS. So in the future we can look forward to much more stability than the days of short term releases.
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