Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

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martienne
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by martienne » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:50 pm

Pjotr wrote:
martienne wrote:What do you mean by "they are the same"? (bear in mind, I am a n00b)
Mint 17.x is built on Ubuntu 14.04. They're for more than 90 % identical. Mint even uses Ubuntu's very own software sources....

Mint stands on Ubuntu's shoulders. Ubuntu stands on Debian's shoulders. Made possible by the concept of free (libre) software, as legally embodied in the GPL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Gener ... ic_License
Interesting and I didn't know that. I have some reading to do.....

I really appreciate your excellent explanations. I have learned a lot from you already. Thanks for taking the time.

So...... Ubuntu is Coca Cola and Mint is Pepsi....? No, Debian is Coke....
Or what's the allegory?

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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by BigEasy » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:16 pm

martienne wrote:So...... Ubuntu is Coca Cola and Mint is Pepsi....?
Mint is Coca Cola with mint (aromatic sence).
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by altair4 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:47 pm

How about:

Debian comes in a box with all of it's components in separate sub-containers: Carbonated water + secret flavouring packet + container to mix it in.
Ubuntu is debian but comes already mixed.
Mint is Ubuntu with different packaging and some added ingredients: think "Mint Coke"
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by Crewp » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:51 pm

I cut my Linux teeth on Ubuntu, but Mint with Cinnamon is just so much better. As time has passed I ended up using LMDE, because I really got into Debian. It's very stable, and beats Ubuntu as a base ( IMO ) :mrgreen:
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by leadwtZ » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:58 am

My mainstay for a long time was the KDE version of Ubuntu i.e. Kubuntu. Having used both I found Kubuntu just easier to get around. However I did try Unity as I thought Kubuntu was getting 'clunky' in my view and with too many options! Unity was like going back in time. Messy and unstable in my view so I moved totally from Ubuntu (there are other reasons too) and found Linux Mint. Just right for the amount of work that I do and MATE is tops for me. I have tried various other LM variants and desktops but LM Mate is the most stable arrangement I have found to date. Just lurve it!!
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by MagicMint » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:46 pm

martienne wrote:
Flemur wrote:They're basically the same…
What do you mean by "they are the same"? (bear in mind, I am a n00b)
Both of them have the same package base, i.e. they use software which had been packaged by Debian first with a lot of useful additions made by Ubuntu (hence the Debian edition of Linux Mint lacks the latter). But Linux Mint was designed from the very beginning to work out of the box, for multimedia above all.

By the time as Gnome (the original desktop environment in both distributions) and successively Ubuntu diverted from their long-established look & feel, Mint “forked” the main components of the user interface by adding in easy-to-use management components which make the use of the computer more fool-proof. By now, these old-fashioned but new desktop environments are largely viewed as independent pieces of software which can be, and are, used by other distros as well.

To give you an example, the Update Manager in Linux Mint doesn’t install the bulk of Ubuntu’s steady updates blindly unless you opt in, which signifies the system is arguably more stable than a comparable Ubuntu installation.

Because of its sensible defaults, a Linux Mint system is way easier to set up, and it’s ready to be used at the moment you’ve installed it. As you pointed it out, it’s a question of time at this stage, afterward it’s one of personal preference, e.g. for the work-horse Mint (which can still be fully configured, if needed) or the shiny kaleidoscope Ubuntu which follows every trend, even if there is none :|

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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by InkKnife » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:02 pm

For me it is all about the vision of the developers.
Canonical is trying to revolutionise the desktop, creating brand new ways to use a GUI with the goal being a desktop convergence of touch and WMP.
The Mint team is not inventing or reinventing anything, they are refining and perfecting the traditional desktop experience and show no signs what so ever of compromising the desktop to support touch.
I came from using OSX and have had my fill of aggressive, visionary designers who make the desktop a constantly changing, moving target.
Steve Jobs just wore me out and Shuttleworth has a lot of the same qualities Jobs had.
Mint offers me a refined desktop where each version is better with a deliberate goal of creating as little user disruption as possible.
The people at Canonical do great work but their goals are not mine. Mint suits me perfectly.
This is the deal with the Linux universe. The key to happiness is finding a distro that has development goals that align with your own. I like a stable, conservative OS so Mint is for me, Mint/Cinnamon to be exact. Other people think Mint is boring.
Choice is good. :)
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by MagicMint » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:03 pm

InkKnife wrote:Mint offers me a refined desktop where each version is better with a deliberate goal of creating as little user disruption as possible … Mint suits me perfectly … The key to happiness is finding a distro that has development goals that align with your own. I like a stable, conservative OS so Mint is for me, Mint/Cinnamon to be exact. Other people think Mint is boring.
Very well said :D

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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by stan ellison » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:05 pm

Ubuntu was the first Linux I got to use on my PC. I really didn't like the colour scheme. Too much purple, yuk. Mint Cinnamon was close enough to my old XP in how it worked, Task bar at the bottom, menu for a start and a peaceful non-intrusive colour scheme. I'm not that keen on the green folders (memories of nasal infections in my far distant youth) but I found out how to change those in Themes. I started on Mint 13 and am now on 17.2 and very happy with it.

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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by Pilosopong Tasyo » Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:14 am

Re-quoting what I wrote a year ago:
It all boils down to user preference, the GUI in particular. Those who prefer the traditional user interface over mobile/tablet-ish interfaces will find themselves at home with Mint (Cinnamon/Mate). At the end of the day, what you see on your screen is what you'll be interacting with all the time. Use what you're comfortable with, I say. Both are nice distros.
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by fraxinus_63 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:07 am

Ubuntu is awesome it its own way but I prefer Mint anyday myself. It pays such careful attention to its users' needs and preferences and ASKS our opinion sometimes on strategic changes. I love the MATE and xfce desktops as packaged by Mint. It is cautious about introducing new technology and desktop paradigms - some prefer a more adventurous approach, but I prefer to stick with familiar stuff that works. The community here is so friendly and helpful. I like the way the update manager works - you can choose quite freely how adventurous you wish to be!

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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by Fragezeichen » Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:04 pm

Well, I use LMDE 2 instead of Ubuntu or the regular Mint because 1) it has proven to be much faster and more stable to me and 2) I don't want to have anything to do with this shady Canonical company.
I would probably rather go back to Windows before using Ubuntu. I just can't stand how they are trying to make big $$$ by taking everything they can get from GNU/Linux/Debian while giving almost nothing back in return.

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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by mdiemer » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:28 pm

Fragezeichen wrote:Well, I use LMDE 2 instead of Ubuntu or the regular Mint because 1) it has proven to be much faster and more stable to me and 2) I don't want to have anything to do with this shady Canonical company.
I would probably rather go back to Windows before using Ubuntu. I just can't stand how they are trying to make big $$$ by taking everything they can get from GNU/Linux/Debian while giving almost nothing back in return.
Exactly. I thought that the idea behind Linux was open source, free software, etc.
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by Pjotr » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:32 pm

Fragezeichen wrote:I don't want to have anything to do with this shady Canonical company. I would probably rather go back to Windows before using Ubuntu. I just can't stand how they are trying to make big $$$ by taking everything they can get from GNU/Linux/Debian while giving almost nothing back in return.
That's totally untrue, of course. Take for example Mint and all the other Ubuntu derivatives. They are freely using the Ubuntu sources, which is very generous of Canonical.

Canonical may not be involved much in kernel development, it has had (and still has) massive importance in promoting Linux by making it attractive for the masses. The derivatives are free to benefit from the efforts of Canonical.

Ubuntu bashing is unwise, undeserved and ungrateful.
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by Fragezeichen » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:04 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Fragezeichen wrote:I don't want to have anything to do with this shady Canonical company. I would probably rather go back to Windows before using Ubuntu. I just can't stand how they are trying to make big $$$ by taking everything they can get from GNU/Linux/Debian while giving almost nothing back in return.
That's totally untrue, of course. Take for example Mint and all the other Ubuntu derivatives. They are freely using the Ubuntu sources, which is very generous of Canonical.

Canonical may not be involved much in kernel development, it has had (and still has) massive importance in promoting Linux by making it attractive for the masses.

Ubuntu bashing is unwise, undeserved and ungrateful.
The question is: Do they promote Linux for the sake of Linux and Free Software or are they rather doing it to generate more revenue for themselves by shamelessly selling their users to Amazon?
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.en.html

And on top of that they are sueing those who want to protect others from the adware included in Ubuntu.
http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... u-privacy/

Seems like a really nice company to me, indeed.

If we take Red Hat for example. They are also making money off of Linux, but unlike Canonical they are one of the top contributors to the Kernel. Canonical is not even in the top 6.
It seems like Canonical are just trying to exploit Linux, Debian and Free Software in general for their own gain while giving nothing substantial in return which I find really objectionable.

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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by Fragezeichen » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:15 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Fragezeichen wrote: They are freely using the Ubuntu sources, which is very generous of Canonical.
No, that's not generous at all. That's simply the point of Free Software. Everyone should be able to modify and redistribute it. Free Software is a collaborative effort. You gain something, you give something back, according to your means. But I see Canonical only taking and gaining, mainly from Debian and the Kernel project, but giving almost nothing in return. This jeopardizes the idea of Free Software.

On top of that, they are giving Linux a bad name by including adware like that Amazon search in their distribution.
When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers.
[...]
Ubuntu uses the information about searches to show the user ads to buy various things from Amazon.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.en.html

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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by Pjotr » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:43 pm

This is becoming a weird semantics issue.... You say: Ubuntu is *forced* to give back, so Ubuntu doesn't *really* give back. That doesn't make any sense to me. :shock:

Forced or not: Ubuntu gives back a lot. That's what counts. Period.

Please stop bashing Ubuntu and be grateful that Ubuntu exists. It's the very lifeblood of Mint. If Ubuntu would ever cease to exist, that would be a very severe blow for the Mint project.

As the saying goes: don't sh** where you eat.
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by Fragezeichen » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:58 pm

Pjotr wrote:This is becoming a weird semantics issue.... You say: Ubuntu is *forced* to give back, so Ubuntu doesn't *really* give back. That doesn't make any sense to me. :shock:

Forced or not: Ubuntu gives back a lot. That's what counts. Period.

Please stop bashing Ubuntu and be grateful that Ubuntu exists. It's the very lifeblood of Mint.
You are not forced to give back. It's just simply a moral obligation to give something back according to your means. That's the whole idea of Free Software. Thus, Canonical's behavior may not be illegal but it certainly is objectionable from a ethical standpoint, especially when taking into consideration that they gain a lot of profit from Free Software and hence would be able to make a fairly big contribution towards furthering Linux and Free Software as a whole but refuse to do so.

How do they give back a lot?

They contribute only very little to the Kernel development and also by far not as much to the Debian project as they are taking from it.

Yea, of course you can repeat: "Promoting Linux and Free Software is a form of giving something back". That's true, but unfortunately Canonical is also promoting a lot of things that Linux and Free Software don't stand for. Like adware (personalized Amazon ads from search requests) or limiting the user's choice (by forcing Unity). And with their financial means acquired mainly through Linux and Free Software they could and should give back much more than just that.

I see no reason why I should be grateful for a company such as Canonical or their products. I'm using LMDE2 (Linux Mint Debian Edition) and Arch and I'm very grateful for these two projects and the Linux kernel. I don't use Ubuntu and I never will.

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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by Pjotr » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:28 am

Fragezeichen wrote:with their financial means acquired mainly through Linux and Free Software they could and should give back much more than just that.
You seem to have a deep insight in the financials of Canonical. Would you care to share your knowledge about the huge profits they supposedly make on desktop Linux? Only provable facts please, no wild guesses.
I see no reason why I should be grateful for a company such as Canonical or their products. I'm using LMDE2 (Linux Mint Debian Edition) and Arch and I'm very grateful for these two projects and the Linux kernel. I don't use Ubuntu and I never will.
Use what you want. But the Mint project is more than LMDE.

In fact, the Mint project as a whole, leans heavily on Ubuntu: LMDE is just a very minor part of the Mint project. Therefore I resent your Ubuntu bashing. Stop it.
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Re: Mint vs Ubuntu - Why Mint?

Post by Fragezeichen » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:41 am

Pjotr wrote: You seem to have a deep insight in the financials of Canonical. Would you care to share your knowledge about the huge profits they supposedly make on desktop Linux? Only provable facts please, no wild guesses.
Use what you want. But the Mint project is more than LMDE.
Their revenue in 2013 was US$65.7 million. Everyone can look that up on Wikipedia. So they are indeed a fairly large company.
On top of that, Mark Shuttleworth's net worth is more than $500 million. That's also a "provable fact" everyone can look up.
From that information you can conclude that they could give back much more to Linux and Free Software than they are doing right now, considering most of their profit originates from that.
Pjotr wrote: In fact, the Mint project as a whole, leans heavily on Ubuntu: LMDE is just a very minor part of the Mint project. Therefore I resent your Ubuntu bashing. Stop it.
So just because my opinion differs from yours I shouldn't be allowed to express it anymore? That's not how a forum works...

Edit: According to your logic one could as well say: Stop bashing on Microsoft, they did so much to promote home computing. Be grateful for them.
Last edited by Fragezeichen on Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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