Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

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GreyGeek
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Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by GreyGeek » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:06 pm

I've been a KDE user since September of 1998. I switched to LinuxMint KDE 17.3 a couple weeks ago and have been well pleased with Mint's treatment of KDE4. Last fall I began looking at Plasma 5 to see if its look and feel is that much different from Plasma 4. It will take some time for Plasma 5 to reach the depth and breadth that Plasma 4 has reached, but my Arch Plasma 5 guest OS was fast and stable, even though its widget options and style choices were slim pickings. However after a couple months of playing with Plasma 5 I found that its general look & feel didn't appeal to me. it's not ugly, it just doesn't have the pop that Plasma 4 has. I love the 3D look and feel of Plasma4 and that is what drew me to KDE4 when KDE3 was discontinued. At that time I tried Gnome but thoroughly hated it. Later I tried Gnome 3 on Ubuntu, when it was first released, and hated it.

I understand that Cinnamon is Mint's version of Gnome 3 but several years have passed and things always change. Yesterday I decided to check out Cinnamon so I installed that DE and rebooted. I have one word to describe my initial experience: WOW!

It is totally different from Plasma 4. I prefer Dolphin to Nero, but I could get used to Nero after a while. I'm ambivalent about FF or Chrome. Cinnamon's system settings are similar to Plasma 4's System Settings. Their network managers are completely different but equally effective. I have to give the nod to Cinnamon for DE speed.

Now I am seriously considering leaving an old friend of 18 years and moving to Cinnamon.

For those who have tried both, relate your experiences to me and why you settled on the DE you now use.

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Crewp
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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by Crewp » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:03 am

Cinnamon has been getting better with each new release. It is still a young DE, compared to some, I use it because of both look and feel. I've tried the others but always come back to Cinnamon. The only other DE I use now besides Cinnamon, is Xfce, because I have a few very old PC's that can;t handle much else.
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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by pacho37 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:26 am

I've been a KDE user for some time as well (not as long as you though) and although I played around with other desktops, including Cinnamon (which while being nice, doesn't appeal to me as much as KDE), I always come back to KDE.
At the moment, for some of those more impatient KDE users/fans, I think it's best to wait for LM 18 and Mint's version of Plasma 5, it's only couple of months away anyway. Then we'll see how things pan out and make a more thought-out decision.
In the meantime, since all current versions are supported till 2019 if I remember correctly, we can sit back, chill and use DE we like best ;-)
In my case DE choice was relatively simple one: of all desktops KDE somehow runs smoothest on my hardware, Cinnamon would glitch every now and then (nothing serious though) other DE's might be too bland for my liking. Also troubleshooting some issues (like screen tearing) is relatively straightforward for me in KDE, on other environments I would probably need to research stuff and spend hours figuring things out. In other words I just became too lazy/comfortable :-)
Linux Mint 18.1 Cinnamon 64 Bit

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by Ark987 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:46 am

Well... Cinnamon 2.x is what made me to do a full switch to Linux. I have bad karma with KDE, I can make it crash just by changing a wallpaper and adjusting a widget (I've tested this over the years) I'm so afraid of losing data so that kept me away from it. I've tried to use Gnome 3 several times, but after 15 minutes I start suffocating as I were suffering from claustrophobia :roll:, I think what drives me crazy there is the lack of a taskbar/dockbar and no menus, that makes me wanting to purchase a Windows 10 license.

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by Mr.October » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:28 pm

I started with KDE and have always used KDE. It is amazing in looks and feel. My hardware is pretty well suited for a KDE version so that's no showstopper, but even on my laptop and my wife's PC it runs well.
Once you are used to how KDE looks, you don't want something else anymore, that's my opinion anyway. You write you can get used to Nero, compared to Dolphin. I can not. I find Nero so simplistic, so dull.
Look what I have done to Dolphin:
snapshot16.png
Can you do that in Nero? Haven't found the way to do that, but haven't really looked for it, I have to admit.

If Cinnamon is what you prefer now than use it, it is your free choice.
Enjoy Cinnamon if it works for you, hope you have much fun with it.

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by xfrank » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:33 am

Crewp wrote:Cinnamon has been getting better with each new release. It is still a young DE, compared to some, I use it because of both look and feel. I've tried the others but always come back to Cinnamon. The only other DE I use now besides Cinnamon, is Xfce, because I have a few very old PC's that can;t handle much else.
I agree, Cinnamon is great, albeit (relatively) young. Now is reliable, stable and not heavy on resources. The only couple of thing I miss in this DE are: window transparencies, and a lateral (optional) bar.
Other than Cinnamon, I use Xfce.
Linux everywhere. Active Distros in my many computers: LM17.3 (Cinnamon, Xfce); LM18.1 (Cinnamon,Xfce); LMDE 2 (Mate), MXLinux (Xfce), Debian 9 (Xfce).

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by LinuxJim » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:27 am

GreyGeek wrote:For those who have tried both, relate your experiences to me and why you settled on the DE you now use.
I like to switch up my desktop environment fairly often. Usually it's to test some program I've written with GTK+ or Qt to see how it behaves in different environments. Other times it is just out of boredom. My goto desktop, however, has always been KDE.

I dont like MATE or Unity at all, so I don't use those. But I use everything else, including bare Window Managers and often just a virtual console. I've only recently tried Cinnamon. It looks nice, but I ran into a number of subtle (and not so subtle) glitches. For instance, if I mount an NFS share from the command line, then navigate to it with Nemo (e.g. /mnt/someremotedisk/), then Nemo freezes as soon as I click on any subfolder of the NFS mount. Even a 'kill -9' won't terminate Nemo in this state. In addition, these mounts show up automatically in the sidebar of all other file managers that I know of (e.g. Dolphin, Thunar, etc.), and are fully usable/navagable, but not in Nemo. I also get lots of d-bus warnings and errors filling up my logs for as long as Cinnamon is running. Some of these (not all) were caused by installing the mint-meta-cinnamon package which changed the ownership of my ~/.dbus directory to root (huh?). Also, MDM no longer allows me to switch sessions (it benignly offers them at login, but selecting any session other than the default does not change the session). Installing KDM to replace MDM fixed that. Then switching back to KDE eliminated all the other problems as well.

To be fair, I started with the KDE edition of Mint 17.3, and installed Cinnamon on top of it. In theory, that should be no different than starting with the Cinnamon edition and adding KDE. But based on the number of things that are broken, I suspect this is not the case. I have an Arch system and a FreeBSD box that I plan to add Cinnamon to, just to see if this is a Mint-specific thing. We'll see...

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by BigEasy » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:29 am

Mr.October wrote:Look what I have done to Dolphin:
For me it's not impressive. Seems elements and controls (and even icons) of Windows 3.11 file manager looks like state of the art comparing to Dolphin's.
http://www.scampers.org/steve/vmware/wf ... iley2k.png
Windows assumes I'm stupid but Linux demands proof of it

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by Mr.October » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:37 am

BigEasy wrote:
Mr.October wrote:Look what I have done to Dolphin:
For me it's not impressive. Seems elements and controls (and even icons) of Windows 3.11 file manager looks like state of the art comparing to Dolphin's.
http://www.scampers.org/steve/vmware/wf ... iley2k.png
Well, each his own of course but I really can not agree with you on this.

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by Moem » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:52 am

Mr.October wrote:Once you are used to how KDE looks, you don't want something else anymore, that's my opinion anyway. You write you can get used to Nero, compared to Dolphin. I can not. I find Nero so simplistic, so dull.
Look what I have done to Dolphin:
snapshot16.png
Whoa. That would look far too busy for me. I guess I prefer things a little more dull and simplistic! :)
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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by Mr.October » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:28 am

M0em wrote: Whoa. That would look far too busy for me. I guess I prefer things a little more dull and simplistic! :)
What is not simplistic? I gave as many folders as possible the icon representing the contents of that folder. How simple do you want it?

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by Moem » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:45 am

I like more visual simplicity. This has far too many different visual elements for my liking. All those icons aren't in the same style and that makes it look cluttered.
This may be simple to use, but it looks pretty busy, not simple. Big difference!
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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by GreyGeek » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:24 pm

Mr.October wrote:.....
Once you are used to how KDE looks, you don't want something else anymore, that's my opinion anyway. You write you can get used to Nero, compared to Dolphin. I can not. I find Nero so simplistic, so dull.
Look what I have done to Dolphin:
snapshot16.png
....
KDE has been my DE since KDE 1.0 beta in SuSE 5.3, released in September of 1998. Your example of Dolphin is what I don't like about Plasma 5. Flat, pastel, controls not delineated in any way, no pop, just dull and boring. Currently Plasma 5 doesn't have the depth and breadth of widgets and applications, but it will probably catch up. KDE 4 will fade away once KDE 5 comes out and if I can't modify KDE 5 to look like KDE 4 then I probably won't go on with KDE. :( That's why I am looking for alternatives that are as powerful as KDE and just as eye catching. The pickings are slim.

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by GreyGeek » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:00 pm

Ark987 wrote:Well... Cinnamon 2.x is what made me to do a full switch to Linux. I have bad karma with KDE, I can make it crash just by changing a wallpaper and adjusting a widget (I've tested this over the years) I'm so afraid of losing data so that kept me away from it. I've tried to use Gnome 3 several times, but after 15 minutes I start suffocating as I were suffering from claustrophobia :roll:, I think what drives me crazy there is the lack of a taskbar/dockbar and no menus, that makes me wanting to purchase a Windows 10 license.
My installations of KDE have always been rock solid. Don't know why your's aren't :?: Video driver problems? Although I never liked Gnome 2 or 3, Cinnamon appears to be a better DE than either. It has its own features and powers, but no where near what KDE has. IMO, nemo is not equal to Dolphin 4.14.2. However, the question is "Is it good enough for what I used a DE for?" Hence the reason for this thread.

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by GreyGeek » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:02 pm

Crewp wrote:Cinnamon has been getting better with each new release. It is still a young DE, compared to some, I use it because of both look and feel. I've tried the others but always come back to Cinnamon. The only other DE I use now besides Cinnamon, is Xfce, because I have a few very old PC's that can;t handle much else.
I've noticed that it has more hiccups than KDE4, but like you say, it is young for a DE.

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Re: Kudos to Cinnamon developers!

Post by GreyGeek » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:17 pm

LinuxJim wrote: ... My goto desktop, however, has always been KDE.
Do you plan to stay with KDE when it switches to Plasma 5 and KDE 4 goes away?
LinuxJim wrote: ... I've only recently tried Cinnamon. It looks nice, but I ran into a number of subtle (and not so subtle) glitches. For instance, if I mount an NFS share from the command line, then navigate to it with Nemo (e.g. /mnt/someremotedisk/), then Nemo freezes as soon as I click on any subfolder of the NFS mount. Even a 'kill -9' won't terminate Nemo in this state. In addition, these mounts show up automatically in the sidebar of all other file managers that I know of (e.g. Dolphin, Thunar, etc.), and are fully usable/navagable, but not in Nemo. I also get lots of d-bus warnings and errors filling up my logs for as long as Cinnamon is running. Some of these (not all) were caused by installing the mint-meta-cinnamon package which changed the ownership of my ~/.dbus directory to root (huh?). Also, MDM no longer allows me to switch sessions (it benignly offers them at login, but selecting any session other than the default does not change the session). Installing KDM to replace MDM fixed that. Then switching back to KDE eliminated all the other problems as well.
The things you mention are what I have noticed as well. They are taking the bloom off of the rose. Nice to know that KDM fixes some MDM problems. Thanks for the tip.
LinuxJim wrote: To be fair, I started with the KDE edition of Mint 17.3, and installed Cinnamon on top of it. In theory, that should be no different than starting with the Cinnamon edition and adding KDE. But based on the number of things that are broken, I suspect this is not the case. I have an Arch system and a FreeBSD box that I plan to add Cinnamon to, just to see if this is a Mint-specific thing. We'll see...
I, too installed KDE first and added Cinnamon. Similarly, I ran Plasma 5 (not Cinammon) on an Arch guest OS and found it fast and stable, but lacking in depth of widgets and breadth of applications. This deficiency will diminish with time, but probably not before KDE 4 is kicked to the curb when the next release featuring Plasma 5 is released.

I was willing to ride out the KDE3 --> KDE4 change over chaos because: 1) as a programmer who used Qt4 at work I knew the power of the Qt4 API, and 2) I liked the direction that KDE4 was going. I retired before the Qt5 API went gold and didn't develop anything with it, and after playing with Plasma 5 on Arch for several months the longer I used it the less I liked it.

At this point I do not know which DE I will end up using. The more opinions that are posted in this thread the better.

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