A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

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mzs112000
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A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by mzs112000 »

Probably, not the best idea tho, but I have locked my system to Firefox 28, and I will not be upgrading to Firefox 29 or newer.
Same with my Linux Mint version, I will not be using any version newer than 17.3.
Same with my Android phone, I have a G2, with Android 4.4.2, I will not upgrade to any version newer than 4.4.4.
Same with my KDE install, I will not use any version newer than 4.14.2.

Why, because Firefox 29 has the garbage "Australis" UI, Mint 18 and up have changed the default wallpaper and are going with this "modern" icons and UI standards, Android 5.0 and up have "Material Design" which is crap, Plasma 5.8(newest KDE Plasma version), and KDE Applications, still have many missing features and functionality from the 4.x series.
Last edited by karlchen on Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: split from this thread: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=221832 "Installing or Reverting to an Older Firefox Version?"
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Cosmo.
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Re: Installing or Reverting to an Older Firefox Version?

Post by Cosmo. »

betatest3 wrote:Probably, not the best idea tho, but I have locked my system to Firefox 28, and I will not be upgrading to Firefox 29 or newer.
A really very bad idea. In the meantime the number of security leaks is hard to count. To give you an idea about that, read this. There does exist the FF-extension Custom Theme Restorer, which allows you to change back nearly every aspect of Australis, which you do not like.

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karlchen
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by karlchen »

Hello, betatest3.
betatest3 wrote: [...] because Firefox 29 has the garbage "Australis" UI [...]
As Cosmo. already pointed out, you accept to be attackable by each and every security bug which has been fixed by Mozilla since Firefox 29. Today we are on Firefox 50. You are prepared to take this risk, just because you do not like the UI changes which Mozilla has applied in Firefox 29 and later. I do not like them, either. But again, as Cosmo. has pointed out, there is Classic Theme Restorer which permits you to undo a lot of the Australis UI changes. Plus, by the same developer, there is also Classic Toolbar Buttons, which will permit you to make any recent Firefox look even more like pre-Australis Firefox.

Below are 2 screenshots of my Firefox 50 with the extensions Classic Theme Restorer 1.5.9 and Classic Toolbar Buttons 1.5.3. Does this look like the ugly Firefox default UI which is just a bad Chrome clone? With CTR and CTB it is up to you what your Firefox looks like. :)

Image --- Image
(Click each screenshot to enlarge. Press <Alt><Cursor_left> to return here.)

It does not even have to look like mine. You have got more choices to customize it. No justification of sticking with obsolete Firefox versions.

Cheers,
Karl
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karlchen
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by karlchen »

Hi, betatest3.
betatest3 wrote:Same with my Linux Mint version, I will not be using any version newer than 17.3.
Using Linux Mint 17.3 is perfectly all right and will be perfectly all right until April 2019. :D
Linux Mint 17.x are LTS releases and will be supported and maintained till April 2019.
So clinging to Mint 17.3 is perfectly all right, as long as you permit Linux Mint Update Manager to do its job properly:
  • You should accept and install all software updates, rated safety levels 1, 2 and 3.
  • You should seriously consider to make all security related updates visible, irrespective of their safety levels. - And having gone through the changelogs and having asked for advice here, if need be, you should install them, too, except the few which are sure to break your system.
  • You might even consider to accept and install security updates always.
    (Awaiting the out-cry not to do so at any rate by those guys that wear braces and belt. :lol: )
Cheers,
Karl
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karlchen
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by karlchen »

betatest3 wrote:Same with my Android phone, I have a G2, with Android 4.4.2, I will not upgrade to any version newer than 4.4.4.
Android and smart phones are a different matter. Lots of smart phone vendors cannot even be bothered to offer any OS updates for what they consider older smart phones. And very likely "older" in their terminology means "any phone which we have succesfully sold". :evil:
I wish my S3 Mini would not only get updates for all the crappy applications which I never use, but security fixes for its ancient Android as well. But it does not.
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Moem
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by Moem »

karlchen wrote: as Cosmo. has pointed out, there is Classic Theme Restorer which permits you to undo a lot of the Australis UI changes. Plus, by the same developer, there is also Classic Toolbar Buttons, which will permit you to make any recent Firefox look even more like pre-Australis Firefox.
These are great options, and another option worth looking into is Pale Moon, which is a pre-Australis Firefox fork.
I don't know who your plea is aimed at, and of course you have the right to stick to old versions if that's what you prefer, but security-wise there are way better solutions.
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karlchen
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by karlchen »

<side note>
Hi, Moem.
The term "plea" has been introduced by me, when I split off betatest3's post from another thread, and I needed a new title for the thread. So, please, do not pick on this term. Or at least pick on me for chosing an inappropriate title.
Cheers,
Karl
</side note>


<Remark on Pale Moon>
What has started as a Firefox fork, based on Firefox 24, is developping more and more into a separate product. The Pale Moon makers have switched to their own Gecko fork, named Goanna, e.g. So with every new release of Firefox and Pale Moon, the two are drifting farther apart.
Pale Moon 27 Release Notes (at the time of wrting this)
When I upgraded from Pale Moon 26.5.0 to 27, I did not only have to switch back from German to English, but I also had to give up my favourite Firefox complete theme, Redcats on Green. It stopped working properly on Pale Moon 27. I am glad they are offering their own full themes now as well.
</Remark on Pale Moon>
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Schultz
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by Schultz »

<offtopic>
karlchen wrote:
When I upgraded from Pale Moon 26.5.0 to 27, I did not only have to switch back from German to English,
Good news for you karlchen, it looks like the German language pack for Pale Moon will be finalized soon. [Edit: Oops, I was only looking at the 100% complete column; the verified column is at 0%.]

https://github.com/JustOff/pale-moon-lo ... n/releases

</offtopic>

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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by MintBean »

Mint 18 still uses Mint-X theme as default, just like 17, and there are no plans to change that. Changing the icon set is trivial and you can copy over any wallpapers you like- again it's only a couple of clicks to change wallpapers, so your reason for not upgrading when 17 is end-of-life is rather ill conceived.

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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by UltraViolence »

As Cosmo. already pointed out, you accept to be attackable by each and every security bug which has been fixed by Mozilla since Firefox 29. Today we are on Firefox 50.
How many times have you been attacked on firefox, double so on linux? Everybody fearmongers about this but I've yet to see it happen. This isn't IE6 on windows or even FF on windows. The older it gets, the less likely someone will try; untargeted stuff like this tends to go for common platforms.

Mint 18 still uses Mint-X theme as default, just like 17
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by Pjotr »

UltraViolence wrote:
As Cosmo. already pointed out, you accept to be attackable by each and every security bug which has been fixed by Mozilla since Firefox 29. Today we are on Firefox 50.
How many times have you been attacked on firefox, double so on linux? Everybody fearmongers about this but I've yet to see it happen. This isn't IE6 on windows or even FF on windows. The older it gets, the less likely someone will try; untargeted stuff like this tends to go for common platforms.
"The older, the less likely to be attacked" creed is a dangerous myth.
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by karlchen »

Hi, UltraViolence.

The moment you enter the wonderful world of the world wide web the attackers will be around you. This is no paranoia. This is the same as in real life as well.
Webbrowsers will be attacked, no matter whether the underlying operating system is OSX, Windows or Linux Mint. As long as the attacks fail, because your OS and your browser have been kept up-to-date, you may never notice any attacks. But this does not mean they are not happening.
If you ever cared to read the changelogs of the software packages which the update-manager offers to Linux Mint users you would realize that a lot of these changelogs mention fixes for security vulnerabilities. So assuming Linux Mint were immune to attacks by nature is not covered by the facts.

Best regards,
Karl
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killer de bug
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by killer de bug »

betatest3 wrote:Same with my Linux Mint version, I will not be using any version newer than 17.3.
[...]
Mint 18 and up have changed the default wallpaper and are going with this "modern" icons and UI standards
Wait, what? :shock:
You don't upgrade to Linux Mint 18 because of the default wallpaper? :shock:

Is this some kind of April fool? :lol:
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by Cosmo. »

UltraViolence wrote:How many times have you been attacked on firefox, double so on linux?
You missed to ask, how many users stay with a documented as vulnerable browser version.
UltraViolence wrote:The older it gets, the less likely someone will try
If a security leak is open, than it open, regardless of the version. And - logically - the more users should - hypothetically - follow this very bad idea of using old version, the more those old leaks get interesting for attackers. With your arguing you just made those vulnerabilities more interesting.

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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by BG405 »

I too detest the Australis UI and stuck with FF28 until I discovered Classic Theme Restorer. There was another reason: Tab Utilities would not work properly above that version but I've since found a decent alternative. Also, you won't be able to sync your browsers across machines with that old version. This is actually what "forced" me to upgrade and find plugin replacements.
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by Portreve »

betatest3 wrote:Probably, not the best idea tho, but I have locked my system to Firefox 28, and I will not be upgrading to Firefox 29 or newer.

<blah blah blah>
Gotta love attention-seeking trolls.

ProTip: Please do not feed.
Please be polite and remember to mark your fixed problem [SOLVED].

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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by InkKnife »

Complaining about Mint's default themes is silly because themes are so easy to install and if you don't like flat there are literally thousands of not flat themes to choose from. I am not a fan of the whole flat thing either. My pro tip for this is don't complain when a fix is so easy. The default themes are suggestions, that's all.
That being said, nothing wrong with sticking with 17.3, it is supported for 3 more years so you are good there.
Sticking with an ancient version of a web browser is just dumb. As has already been said, this is a seriously bad practice.
I dislike every change in Firefoxe's UI since v4 but I bothered to find classic theme restorer which fixed my issues with Firefox, again, no need to complain or dig in your heals when the fix is so easy.
I might suggest you Google around for solutions at least a little bit before getting all ranty about stuff. No need to go getting yourself all upset over easy to solve problems.
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by UltraViolence »

With your arguing you just made those vulnerabilities more interesting.
Don't worry, nobody will listen. Look at all the pushback.
This is the same as in real life as well.
Webbrowsers will be attacked, no matter whether the underlying operating system is OSX, Windows or Linux Mint.
Tools like uBlock and crew do way more to mitigate that than the browser version. Every conference they come back with more 0 days, patching won't necessarily save you. On windows and OSX you can install app based firewalls that keeps anything which could go through from connecting out. With linux I was told that this is unnecessary and I could just allow or block the ports as needed. If 2 things both connect OUT through port 80 and I want to block one of them I should just suck on a lemon.
Also, you won't be able to sync your browsers across machines with that old version
I try my best to rip out sync and its equivalent from my web browsers. Also, pocket, webgl, webrtc and the rest.

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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by Amii_Leigh »

Sometimes I wish I could still use win2000 and *everything* that I had back then, but I wouldn't be here if I could do that. ;)
I wish the world wouldn't keep turning, but it does, we all have the choices to make whether we run in place or just rest. For now, I like what I have...
Last edited by Amii_Leigh on Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A plea for sticking with obsolete software versions

Post by mwbworld »

killer de bug wrote:
betatest3 wrote:Same with my Linux Mint version, I will not be using any version newer than 17.3.
[...]
Mint 18 and up have changed the default wallpaper and are going with this "modern" icons and UI standards
Wait, what? :shock:
You don't upgrade to Linux Mint 18 because of the default wallpaper? :shock:

Is this some kind of April fool? :lol:
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