New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by Habitual » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:39 pm

rdonnelly wrote:I tried 18.0 and I went back to 17.3 as I use my PC for business purpose, but even some of us vets should stick with a stable release.
Went back to 17.1 myself.

And not to discourage 1000s of hours of hard work, it is a very polished release
and it fits well with what I think people expect of LinuxMint - Excellence.


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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by rdonnelly » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:49 pm

I have 18.1 installed along side 17.3, just a matter of taking the time to move some info from old home to new, and give it a shot.
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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by lmintnewb2 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:13 am

I should stay quiet on this one but it's a forum meant for discussion so.

Haven't tried 18.1, so isn't an informed opinion but it's really that bad? Am going to install something Mint because I'm a fan of this distro. For me that'll be Lmde because I'm not a fan of Ubuntu, even with LM acting as a buffer.

Jmo but it's kinda ridiculous to fault new users for going to the download pg and dl'ing the the latest Lts version. Thats exactly what the overwhelming majority of reasonable human beings will do.

If its really that bad and buggy then the fault imo lay with the devs and maintainers and they should either a) Put a notice to such effect informing people of the situation on the dl-pg and/or b) Delay release, until such time as the release is ready.

Just 2 cents on this and mwah I still really like the good people at Mint HQ and this distro. Am sure it'll be sorted out.

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by sphyrth » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:12 am

It's a situation of a young LTS Ubuntu Base (18.1) vs. a more battle-hardened LTS Ubuntu base (17.3).

Well that, and I think much of the whining has to do with the X-apps, and Mint-Y.
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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by skywolfblue » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:48 pm

KDE 18.1 here, KDE 18.0 was a little buggy (I had 2 bugs that we're quickly fixed), but 18.1 has been pretty stable so far.

There haven't been enough bugs for me not to recommend it to people new and old.

I agree 17.3 was really polished and bug-free, but software is changing and 17.3 will be left behind.

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by polarvortex » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:12 am

Why would new people even *think* to use 17.3? The mint website presents 18.1 as the latest best stable version. You have to dig a bit to even find 17.3, and there's nothing about the website that would make a new user think that was a better choice.

It's entirely Mint's "fault" that new users are getting 18.1, not the new user's. If it's not stable, then promote the latest stable version (which you claim is 17.3) and bury 18.1 as more of a cutting edge beta type version.

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by JohnBobSmith » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:45 am

I would like to point out that, as with everything linux based, no one is forcing anyone to use software that you don't want to. Use what works and leave it at that. In the interest of free software, I would advise reporting bugs upstream or to the project's maintainers. Whining about it won't help. Be part of the solution by actively contributing bug fixes/reports, code, patches, wiki entries, and good forum posts. Once I get my Mint 18 ISO up an running, I'll be sure do just that. :D Also keep in mind that a newer release, and the term "new" itself, means that problems are to be expected. It's your task to help solve those problems and make the project better, if you so desire. And that's the double edged sword of it all right there. No one is forcing you to help contribute. But by contributing, at least you know that you did your part, you put your best foot forward, you gave it your best effort. At the end of the day, if the software in question is still broken, don't use it. But take then you can take pride in yourself knowing you did your part. :)

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by MintBean » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:56 am

Hoser Rob wrote:I'm seeing just too many problems reported with 18. I suspect a lot of the issues are with the ubuntu 16.04 base but not all.
This.

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by Pjotr » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:19 am

I can only say: in my experience, Mint 18.1 is just fine.

The Cinnamon edition has a problem on one of my rigs, which is probably hardware dependent (a race condition which may have something to do with the non-free Nvidia driver). However, the Xfce edition of that same 18.1 doesn't have that race condition on that machine, and runs perfectly well.

On all of the other machines that I've put 18.1 on, be it Cinnamon or Xfce: no problems whatsoever. Let's not forget that on this forum, unsurprisingly, we almost only hear about problems. After all, that's what this forum is for....

But that does not give an indication of the quality of 18.1. Sure, we hear little about problems with 17.x. But that's because the 17.x users usually installed their OS long ago; they've already solved any problems they may have had in the beginning, in the distant past.

So it's safe to assume that Mint 18.1 will work fine on the vast majority of hardware combinations. For that vast majority, there's no need to prefer 17.x. :mrgreen:
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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by racer-x » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:38 pm

Agreed. ^ ^

deleted

Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by deleted » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:55 pm

The only problem with 18 I have was installing it on a fresh ssd on an Acer.
I couldn't boot Legacy (no BIOS setting) and Acer didn't like the UEFI install.
I finally deleted all the partitions and let the Mint installer do everything for me (partitions and all).
Not a lick of trouble after that.
-H

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by Rocky Bennett » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:47 am

Citizen229 wrote:The whiny posts are getting old. New people/maybe trolls are getting old. Mint 17.3 is the last fully polished version of Mint. If you want plug and play install it. Now Mint 18.x is the future. But like all software the future takes time. New people need to be advised if they do not like bugs to install 17.3. There should be a warning on the downloader for God's sake warning total new people of this. People come here for ease. They DL the latest version and they have zero tolerance the bugs. Then they move to other more unstable distros. Then they go back to windows. This fully sets in the windows trap that no one can make an OS like them. The community will not grow when non-tech people use a version that is not yet complete. The fault lies with them for not doing proper research. As well as the fault lies with us for not getting them on a more stable release.

I have not had one bug or bad install using 17.3 on other peoples systems.

With this very good advice in mind I would recommend every kid in 2017 to begin their PC adventure by firing up Windows XP. Heck, why stop there? Why not break out Windows 95 so the kids can really learn how to use a computer?

Of course I am kidding but I think that your opinion is very poor advice. I think that Linux newbies should start with the latest iteration of what ever distro they choose to use.

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by JerryF » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:35 pm

Citizen229 wrote:The whiny posts are getting old. New people/maybe trolls are getting old. Mint 17.3 is the last fully polished version of Mint. If you want plug and play install it. Now Mint 18.x is the future. But like all software the future takes time. New people need to be advised if they do not like bugs to install 17.3. There should be a warning on the downloader for God's sake warning total new people of this. People come here for ease. They DL the latest version and they have zero tolerance the bugs. Then they move to other more unstable distros. Then they go back to windows. This fully sets in the windows trap that no one can make an OS like them. The community will not grow when non-tech people use a version that is not yet complete. The fault lies with them for not doing proper research. As well as the fault lies with us for not getting them on a more stable release.

I have not had one bug or bad install using 17.3 on other peoples systems.
I tried 17.3 and had a screen problem, among other issues. The mouse pointer had coordinates issue. For example, if I wanted to click on a button (let's say the coordinates were AA, BB), I had to click somewhere else for it to work (AA+100, BB+50).
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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by JerryF » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:49 pm

thom_A wrote:New people need to learn how to do basic partitioning and multi-booting alongside Windows, if you like. This household have 4 bios machines average 10 years old (from time of purchase) with early Intel dual cores, 3GB ram. One is a laptop. It wasn't easy, it takes time, but you gain experience. (You have to have similar machine you don't care of breaking so you can learn worry-free.)

Over time you never have to struggle which distro to install in your system. You can install 3-4, or even 5. I don't use virtualbox. (I just don't like the idea of running a distro on top of another one. I'd rather multi-boot. Grub Customizer does all the cleaning up of the boot mess for me.)

Mint 17.3 was still installed when I added Mint 18 (now 18.1). I no longer boot in the 17.3 partition. So boot where everything works.

Who's going to test the new version if everyone sticks with old one?
I agree with your last statement, but I disagree with your first one. Although I do partitioning and have a dual-boot machine, Mint was made so that Linux could be easier. An average computer user doesn't want or shouldn't need to do partitioning, etc. I think of it like this: the average driver uses his car. He doesn't want to or shouldn't need to know how to fix an engine problem if one occurs. It's great if you can, but not for the average user.
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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by deleted » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:59 pm

^ That analogy isn't even close. Installing a new OS is like changing the body of your car.
Partitioning is the equivalent to making sure the holes line up.
Then engine is the CPU.
-H

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by JerryF » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:09 pm

trytip wrote:some may argue that just as you are advised to keep your browsers up to date for security patches and vulnerability fixes, so should you keep your kernels and distros. i don't like 18.1 because of the xed applications. why would anyone take a step back in new and updated software. i like my pluma to do my PGP for me but now can't do it in 18.1 :x

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by JerryF » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:12 pm

hinto wrote:^ That analogy isn't even close. Installing a new OS is like changing the body of your car.
Partitioning is the equivalent to making sure the holes line up.
Then engine is the CPU.
-H
I know the engine for a computer is the CPU; I was talking about how an average user would view it.
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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by How-old! » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:14 pm

17.3 is certainly mature and has been a rock for me. 18.1 represents progress, is strong and is the future. The advantage of Mint lies in the vast & (usually) helpful Forum together with regular updates.
As for bugs, there was a published (where?) rigorous statistical analysis of computer code in the '60s before most folks could spell c-o-m-p-u-t-e-r. Allegedly, any program with more than seven (or was it 9?) statements (memory fades, but I think it also specified including a loop?) could never be fully debugged, by definition. Not being in mathematics, unable to confirm, but it was definitely promulgated.
If you want to print anything with a fairly recent (but not new) printer, always a good idea to load the latest incarnation. Developers have a hard time keeping up, with highly variable cooperation from manufacturers.
It's good to learn new tricks, but not if it interferes with getting things done. Is it 'better', is it 'safe', does it fulfil your requirements? Yes? - no pressing reason to upgrade. Not content? - worth trying new versions.

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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by Citizen229 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:33 pm

Ok lets use the car analogy. You can buy a brand new car X, but for some people the transmission doesnt work( wifi) without you fixing it. Or you can get last years model, that has the most recalls fixed already.

Or go buy a driverless car. Its the latest and greatest. I mean they only crash frequently. You need to learn to repair a car anyways.
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Re: New people need to stop using 18.X and use 17.3.

Post by Citizen229 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:14 pm

JohnBobSmith wrote:I would like to point out that, as with everything linux based, no one is forcing anyone to use software that you don't want to.
And there in lies the problem--- THEY DO NOT KNOW THEY HAVE OPTIONS. To compound the issue, as another user said 17.3 is hidden and 18.1 splashed in the face. To further compound as seen with most of the replies here, they will most likely never even know about it. So in effect most of you ARE FORCING.
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