Why upgrade instead of clean install?

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Schultz
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Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby Schultz » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:02 pm

Can anyone explain to me why some users will do upgrades from different versions of Mint (i.e., from 17.3 to 18.0) when it is fraught with dangers? Why not just do a fresh install? I even do fresh installs with point releases of the same version (18.0 to 18.1 to 18.2). It just seems so much easier without any threat of problems. (Compared to Windows, doing a fresh install of Mint is a snap.) I can't see any reason to do it any other way. I just don't get it.

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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby Jim Hauser » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:24 am

Schultz wrote:Can anyone explain to me why some users will do upgrades from different versions of Mint (i.e., from 17.3 to 18.0) when it is fraught with dangers? Why not just do a fresh install? I even do fresh installs with point releases of the same version (18.0 to 18.1 to 18.2). It just seems so much easier without any threat of problems. (Compared to Windows, doing a fresh install of Mint is a snap.) I can't see any reason to do it any other way. I just don't get it.


Some users may have highly customized systems that might be time consuming to "reproduce" or they could be just lazy. I also prefer fresh installs over simple upgrades. I make backup images along with copying all of the Home folder files weekly with the intention of doing fresh installs. Been doing it this way for going on four years and never had a major hitch.

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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby samriggs » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:53 am

I prefer clean installs also, but mine usually takes 2 days or more to get it back to normal, saving the home folder plus other stuff and putting it back in usually takes 10 to 16 hours with an external for me, never mind the other stuff.
In this case I opt for a rolling release for myself, it is just less headaches for myself, but for this kind of case I can understand why some do upgrades instead and take the chance.
As for the rest of my family they all get clean install installs since theirs take only minutes to back up.
In which case they get LTS versions so it less headaches for myself since I do all the work for them and usually do them all at once.
As for mine it gets regular back ups for certain folders I constantly add to.
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby Pjotr » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:59 am

Upgrading within a series, like the 18 series, is safe and quick. So why spend more time and effort on a clean install? :mrgreen:

Note that I definitely agree that upgrading from the 17 series to the 18 series is not such a good idea. That's because their code base is vastly different.

But as long as the code base remains the same, which is the case when you upgrade within a series, upgrading is simple, quick and convenient. Clickety-click, and off you go.
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby karlchen » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:01 am

Schultz wrote:Can anyone explain to me why some users will do upgrades from different versions of Mint (i.e., from 17.3 to 18.0) when it is fraught with dangers?
For inexperienced Linux users installing an operating system from scratch is horror pure.
They never had to do so in their previous lives as Windows users. In the worst case they have used the "revert to factory state" functionality in order "to re-install their Windows from scratch", which in fact just overwrites everything on the disk with a vendor prepared image.
Installing an operating system from scratch, no matter whether it is Windows or Linux Mint, requires as few more steps and educated decisions than clicking "revert to factory state".
This is why in particular inexperienced users will prefer in-place upgrades over clean installations.

~~~~~

Schultz wrote:I even do fresh installs with point releases of the same version (18.0 to 18.1 to 18.2).
One of the reasons of using an LTS release is not having to re-install from scratch in short intervals.
I started with Ubuntu 16.04.1 (=SP1) and it has updated itself to 16.04.3 (=SP3) by now. No need to install from scratch in order to advance from SP1 to SP2 to SP3.
So why should there be any sense in doing clean installations in order to get from Linux Mint 18 to 18.1 to 18.2?
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby MintBean » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:23 am

Unless you're itching for the new features and can't wait a 3 or 4 weeks for the upgrade via update manager to appear, it makes no sense reinstalling for a point upgrade. It's just a make work with no benefit.

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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby catweazel » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:37 am

Schultz wrote:Can anyone explain to me why some users will do upgrades from different versions of Mint (i.e., from 17.3 to 18.0) when it is fraught with dangers?

Lack of knowledge and experience.
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby Hoser Rob » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:41 am

Pjotr wrote:Upgrading within a series, like the 18 series, is safe and quick. So why spend more time and effort on a clean install? :mrgreen: ....


Perhaps because when I did a 'safe' upgrade on my laptop from 17 to 17.1 the video card developed severe tearing due to a driver regression?

I'll never do a web upgrade again unless I test it first from a live boot.

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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby Pjotr » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:46 am

Hoser Rob wrote:
Pjotr wrote:Upgrading within a series, like the 18 series, is safe and quick. So why spend more time and effort on a clean install? :mrgreen: ....


Perhaps because when I did a 'safe' upgrade on my laptop from 17 to 17.1 the video card developed severe tearing due to a driver regression?

I suppose that can count as a (deplorable) incident.... As a general rule, upgrading within a series is commendable and convenient.
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby JerryF » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:14 pm

Schultz wrote:Can anyone explain to me why some users will do upgrades from different versions of Mint (i.e., from 17.3 to 18.0) when it is fraught with dangers? Why not just do a fresh install? I even do fresh installs with point releases of the same version (18.0 to 18.1 to 18.2). It just seems so much easier without any threat of problems. (Compared to Windows, doing a fresh install of Mint is a snap.) I can't see any reason to do it any other way. I just don't get it.

Devs offer the upgrade option, so why not? The upgrade option will get better as time goes on.

fraught with dangers

Really? Sounds a little dramatic.

For myself, I upgraded within series. Didn't have a problem.
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby Moem » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:23 pm

JerryF wrote:
fraught with dangers

Really? Sounds a little dramatic.

I agree. After all, if things go pear shaped and your installation does end up belly up, you can always still do a clean install.
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby Schultz » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:19 pm

JerryF wrote:
Really? Sounds a little dramatic.

Tell that to this guy or gal: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=253975

Moem wrote:
After all, if things go pear shaped and your installation does end up belly up, you can always still do a clean install.

Then you're doing double work for the same thing.

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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby Moem » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:26 pm

Schultz wrote:
Moem wrote:
After all, if things go pear shaped and your installation does end up belly up, you can always still do a clean install.

Then you're doing double work for the same thing.

Of course. But that may or may not happen. Some people like those odds more than you, I guess!
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby SallyK » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:04 pm

Because it involves setting up your whole system again - downloading software, tweaking settings etc. Whereas upgrading in place you just get a shiny new operating system without the faff.

Obviously it's something that needs to be planned for in the system, and I've done plenty of clean installs since I started using Linux, but a proper upgrade path is more user-friendly, and lets the system get out of your way, so you can carry on using your machine.

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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby JerryF » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:36 pm

Schultz wrote:
JerryF wrote:
Really? Sounds a little dramatic.

Tell that to this guy or gal: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=253975

One out of how many who have upgraded without a problem?
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby majpooper » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:13 pm

Early on I broke my system so many times ( i.e. monkey with a machine gun syndrome) clean installs were burned into muscle memory. I have a little tweaks doc I use plus Pjotr's site that I use - it takes me a couple of hours but I like that everything is fresh. Also I have chilled out with having to have the latest version - the last three installs I have done for friends and family have been 17.3 because it settled down and is very stable. I just don't see doing upgrades for the OS or software for that matter unless it solves a problem.

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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby sphyrth » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:34 pm

Thesis: Upgrading is filled with risks. So why take it?

Upgrading can be hassle-free, so I'll take it. Yes, this doesn't account for the risk of breaking the system... which creates more hassle. But I'm still willing to take it.

Well, I'm more of a Back-up and Flatten Guy myself. And I think the Upgrade Feature is still in its experimental condition.
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby Pjotr » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:02 am

majpooper wrote:Early on I broke my system so many times ( i.e. monkey with a machine gun syndrome) clean installs were burned into muscle memory.

My own experience as well, when I started with Linux (Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper Drake) in 2006.... I used to (have to) restore a clean Acronis image of my Ubuntu system at least once a week. :lol:
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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby MintBean » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:55 am

Look, we all agree it's smart to be backed up before upgrading, whether via update manager or a fresh install, so given that, what is the cost of trying an update via update manager? About 5 minutes. If it fails you've wasted 5 minutes and need to reinstall. Given that the vast majority seem to go without a hitch when upgrading within series, that seems like a good bet.

Schultz the link you provided was someone performing a major upgrade from 17 to 18 series which is something different and not advised by most here.

Point updates via update manager are a no-brainer IMO, but of course each to their own. Personally for me a fresh install every couple of years is the right balance.

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Re: Why upgrade instead of clean install?

Postby Schultz » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:03 pm

MintBean wrote:
Schultz the link you provided was someone performing a major upgrade from 17 to 18 series which is something different and not advised by most here.

That's mostly what I was talking about. I only mentioned point upgrades in passing.

I wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why some users will do upgrades from different versions of Mint (i.e., from 17.3 to 18.0) when it is fraught with dangers?


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