Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
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- Pjotr
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Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
From time to time, people ask questions about Grub Customizer. Sometimes people even advise to use it.
My opinion: I consider Grub Customizer (GC) as dangerous and superfluous.
Dangerous, because it adds a thick layer of complexity to one of the most vital parts of your operating system: the bootloader. The more complex you make something, the more likely it is to cause trouble.
Superfluous, because most of what GC does, can also rather easily be accomplished by some manual hacks.
Spurred by a recent forum discussion, I've written a detailed article about my testing of GC. In that article I analyze this matter in more detail. I've put a lot of (hopefully) clarifying screenshots in that article of the test that I performed: https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... mizer.html
I hope this "knot in my forum handkerchief" can be useful, both for people who wish to advise others about Grub Customizer and for those who consider using it themselves.
Just to make this clear: I mean no disrespect towards Daniel Richter, who is the author of Grub Customizer. I have no doubt that he's a highly skilled programmer and very good at his job. It's just that I think that GC is based on a fundamentally wrong technical concept.
My opinion: I consider Grub Customizer (GC) as dangerous and superfluous.
Dangerous, because it adds a thick layer of complexity to one of the most vital parts of your operating system: the bootloader. The more complex you make something, the more likely it is to cause trouble.
Superfluous, because most of what GC does, can also rather easily be accomplished by some manual hacks.
Spurred by a recent forum discussion, I've written a detailed article about my testing of GC. In that article I analyze this matter in more detail. I've put a lot of (hopefully) clarifying screenshots in that article of the test that I performed: https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... mizer.html
I hope this "knot in my forum handkerchief" can be useful, both for people who wish to advise others about Grub Customizer and for those who consider using it themselves.
Just to make this clear: I mean no disrespect towards Daniel Richter, who is the author of Grub Customizer. I have no doubt that he's a highly skilled programmer and very good at his job. It's just that I think that GC is based on a fundamentally wrong technical concept.
Last edited by LockBot on Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:16 am, edited 5 times in total.
Reason: Topic automatically closed 6 months after creation. New replies are no longer allowed.
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Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
I removed it when I upgraded to Mint 8.3 and boot time improved significantly.
I was using it because I normally have 2 or 3 distributions installed on this computer and it was an easy way to make it boot to a specific one. Though It's simple enough to edit Grub to do that.
I was using it because I normally have 2 or 3 distributions installed on this computer and it was an easy way to make it boot to a specific one. Though It's simple enough to edit Grub to do that.
Using Mint as primary OS since 2006.
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
Bleachbit, Systemd, Pulseaudio, Grubcustomizer
What calamity will be next?
What calamity will be next?
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Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
Gparted? Or kernel upgrade?
Windows assumes I'm stupid but Linux demands proof of it
- Pjotr
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Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
inxi of course!Royal-Mint wrote:What calamity will be next?
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
Twitter: twitter.com/easylinuxtips
All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
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Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
It isn't something I'd use, but I've seen references to it. I don't see it in the repository (LM 18.3).Pjotr wrote:From time to time, people ask questions about Grub Customizer. Sometimes people even advise to use it.
...
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
So long as readers of @Pjtor's thread understand the following:
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and @Pjtor's is just a personal opinion - it's not in any way the official stance of Linux Mint/Ubuntu/Debian. @Pjtor's opinion is no more valid than any other forum member, including you and me. It is also not the only opinion of Grub Customiser... I suggest you browse other Linux forums too, you'll notice some are for GC - some are against - and many don't have an opinion on it at all... although not many start a thread stating their opinion of it.
(Daniel; please don't respond to this thread, you'd be wasting your time... get back to the coding )
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and @Pjtor's is just a personal opinion - it's not in any way the official stance of Linux Mint/Ubuntu/Debian. @Pjtor's opinion is no more valid than any other forum member, including you and me. It is also not the only opinion of Grub Customiser... I suggest you browse other Linux forums too, you'll notice some are for GC - some are against - and many don't have an opinion on it at all... although not many start a thread stating their opinion of it.
(Daniel; please don't respond to this thread, you'd be wasting your time... get back to the coding )
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
He already had the kindness to do so, explaining things regarding the functioning of Grub Customizer here: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=261622&hilit=grub+customizer+no+nochrisuk wrote: (Daniel; please don't respond to this thread, you'd be wasting your time... get back to the coding )
just a few days ago.
- Pjotr
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Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
Of course it's my personal opinion. But in that article I demonstrate what Grub Customizer does, which amounts to adding a massive layer of complexity to the bootloader.
In the article, I weigh the disadvantages of this huge added complexity against the advantages, namely adding bling-bling to your bootloader and easily changing the boot order.
Given the fact that adding bling-bling and even changing the boot order can also be done without adding this thick layer of complexity, I advise against it. Complexity is a risk in itself; such an essential part of your operating system as the bootloader, shouldn't be put to that risk.
Oh well. "Quem deus vult perdere, prius dementat". Which is Swahili for: do what you want; I've said my part.
In the article, I weigh the disadvantages of this huge added complexity against the advantages, namely adding bling-bling to your bootloader and easily changing the boot order.
Given the fact that adding bling-bling and even changing the boot order can also be done without adding this thick layer of complexity, I advise against it. Complexity is a risk in itself; such an essential part of your operating system as the bootloader, shouldn't be put to that risk.
Oh well. "Quem deus vult perdere, prius dementat". Which is Swahili for: do what you want; I've said my part.
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
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All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
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All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.
- catweazel
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Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
+1chrisuk wrote:So long as readers of @Pjtor's thread understand the following:
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and @Pjtor's is just a personal opinion - it's not in any way the official stance of Linux Mint/Ubuntu/Debian. @Pjtor's opinion is no more valid than any other forum member, including you and me. It is also not the only opinion of Grub Customiser... I suggest you browse other Linux forums too, you'll notice some are for GC - some are against - and many don't have an opinion on it at all... although not many start a thread stating their opinion of it.
Grub-customizer has been a very helpful tool for me. Unfortunately some people get a bee in their bonnet that they just can't let escape. The argument about complexity put forward by Pjotr is, in and of itself, sound, but it fails to take into account that GC has uses that do not add these layers of complexity. Reordering the boot order being one of them. It is also much easier to have a newcomer edit the grub config in GC and post a few pictures to explain it than it is for them to follow a handful of terminal commands and come to grips with a command line text editor.
"There is, ultimately, only one truth -- cogito, ergo sum -- everything else is an assumption." - Me, my swansong.
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
Been using Grub Customizer since I began getting serious about using Linux.
In fact, It's the main app that I'm able to do multiple boot options, which included Windows.
I'd be lost without it, especially adding a maximum of 5 distros in my system, again, which included Windows.
The messy look in every Linux install during boot, ie, memtest, advanced something, etc. is confusing.
GC cleans it all up in a very simple, intuitive way.
I don't play with the Appearance Settings in GC, except check the Custom Resolution: 640 x 480.
In fact, It's the main app that I'm able to do multiple boot options, which included Windows.
I'd be lost without it, especially adding a maximum of 5 distros in my system, again, which included Windows.
The messy look in every Linux install during boot, ie, memtest, advanced something, etc. is confusing.
GC cleans it all up in a very simple, intuitive way.
I don't play with the Appearance Settings in GC, except check the Custom Resolution: 640 x 480.
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
I used Grub Customizer for years, on several different computers, with no problems. Then I decided I wanted to do something maybe a little out of the ordinary: add Plop to the boot menu so I could boot from DVD or USB on a computer that doesn't support it. And that's where the troubles began. I wanted to figure out how to do this for my brother, but not having his computer handy, I decided to first figure out how to do it on my own computer, then write it up and email it to him. After several days of working at it, in order to boot my computer now, I have to boot SuperGrub2 from a CD, then boot Mint from there. Not a big deal, since I usually leave my computer running and rarely ever have to reboot it, but when I install Mint 18 on a new hard drive next month, I will not be using Grub Customizer. I might figure out another way to add Plop to the Grub boot menu, or maybe just install Plop to the MBR and use it instead of Grub. But I won't be using Grub Customizer anymore.
“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
There are a number of tools I've used of late to configure this old laptop to my necessities and liking. In my situation, I will ALWAYS be a newbie unless I actually carve out some time to master the command line. Such is not my ambition. I have actual work to do.
The beauty of Linux is that the system is learnable, where others are not. Having worked with computers (outside school) since 1983, I've gone through the newbie to guru and back cycle several times.
With that said, I see no shame in using a graphic interface to accomplish things achievable on the command line.
Instead of editing fstab, I use "Disks"."
Instead of using dd, I use "USB Image Writer."
Instead of messing with grub.cfg I use "Grub Customizer"
After balancing evil vs. groceries, I have the unfortunate necessity to dual-boot Win7. With eyes wide open, I used Grub Customizer to achieve a solid dual boot protocol with my own splash, and I'm happy with it. I care nothing for the added complexity, as it seems to be serving me quite well. I see your passion, Pjtor, but I can't share it.
Learning the Linux command line is certainly a worthy pursuit. But it is no more and no less another interface. I talk to users (even on the intermediate level) who are still copy/pasting command lines from some website. Nothing wrong with that, but certainly it is no more 'advanced' than a gui for achieving a task.
I toast users of every level, and especially Pjtor (I turned off my ad blocker for you, man), and Daniel Richter, and all the fellow newbies.
The beauty of Linux is that the system is learnable, where others are not. Having worked with computers (outside school) since 1983, I've gone through the newbie to guru and back cycle several times.
With that said, I see no shame in using a graphic interface to accomplish things achievable on the command line.
Instead of editing fstab, I use "Disks"."
Instead of using dd, I use "USB Image Writer."
Instead of messing with grub.cfg I use "Grub Customizer"
After balancing evil vs. groceries, I have the unfortunate necessity to dual-boot Win7. With eyes wide open, I used Grub Customizer to achieve a solid dual boot protocol with my own splash, and I'm happy with it. I care nothing for the added complexity, as it seems to be serving me quite well. I see your passion, Pjtor, but I can't share it.
Learning the Linux command line is certainly a worthy pursuit. But it is no more and no less another interface. I talk to users (even on the intermediate level) who are still copy/pasting command lines from some website. Nothing wrong with that, but certainly it is no more 'advanced' than a gui for achieving a task.
I toast users of every level, and especially Pjtor (I turned off my ad blocker for you, man), and Daniel Richter, and all the fellow newbies.
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
Grub Customizer might be dangerous (although I haven't experienced problems), but I don't think it's superfluous
For example, to solve a bug like this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/554307
I recently installed Zorin OS next to two other Linux systems (Ubuntu and LInux Mint) and the resulting grub.cfg file has several errors: the UUID pointing to the Linux Mint '/boot/vmlinuz-4.15.0-51-generic' file in fact points to the Ubuntu partition, so selecting Linux Mint on boot just redirects to Ubuntu. And there are several wrong menu-entries in the 'advanced options' submenu, stuff like 'Ubuntu, met Linux 4.15.0-51-generic (op /dev/sda2) (op /dev/sda5)'. So grub is mixing up Ubuntu and Linux MInt.
I can manually edit the grub.cfg file and at least change the wrong UUID but I would have to repeat this with every grub-update. All this can be easily solved using GC, but I haven't installed it yet on my Zorin partition. Does someone have a better option?
I had similar problems with just two OSes (which I solved with Grub Customizer), so it's not the fault of Zorin OS.
For example, to solve a bug like this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/554307
I recently installed Zorin OS next to two other Linux systems (Ubuntu and LInux Mint) and the resulting grub.cfg file has several errors: the UUID pointing to the Linux Mint '/boot/vmlinuz-4.15.0-51-generic' file in fact points to the Ubuntu partition, so selecting Linux Mint on boot just redirects to Ubuntu. And there are several wrong menu-entries in the 'advanced options' submenu, stuff like 'Ubuntu, met Linux 4.15.0-51-generic (op /dev/sda2) (op /dev/sda5)'. So grub is mixing up Ubuntu and Linux MInt.
I can manually edit the grub.cfg file and at least change the wrong UUID but I would have to repeat this with every grub-update. All this can be easily solved using GC, but I haven't installed it yet on my Zorin partition. Does someone have a better option?
I had similar problems with just two OSes (which I solved with Grub Customizer), so it's not the fault of Zorin OS.
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
See my post here: viewtopic.php?p=1575498#p1575498
OT: The Ubuntu responses to that BR are hilarious. 5 years until the first response, asking if it's still a problem with grub2, one year later importance gets set to high by another Ubuntu guy, then 2 more years later (8 years since the original report) the first guy first says no bug, then eventually gets convinced that it is a bug and only then triages it. Still not fixed today, 9 years after the original report. And all that in a core, supported package like grub/grub2.tony37 wrote: ⤴Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:55 am For example, to solve a bug like this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/554307
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
That more or less worked, except that when I boot I first get to a black screen with a grey ribbon around it (this also happens when I disable the Zorin-theme). I only get to the actual boot menu by pressing the escape key. When I do nothing, Zorin OS boots after 10 seconds.
I was also astonished by this, I have to assume most people just use Grub Customizer to solve this buggm10 wrote: ⤴Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:28 am OT: The Ubuntu responses to that BR are hilarious. 5 years until the first response, asking if it's still a problem with grub2, one year later importance gets set to high by another Ubuntu guy, then 2 more years later (8 years since the original report) the first guy first says no bug, then eventually gets convinced that it is a bug and only then triages it. Still not fixed today, 9 years after the original report. And all that in a core, supported package like grub/grub2.
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
Check yourtony37 wrote: ⤴Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:55 am That more or less worked, except that when I boot I first get to a black screen with a grey ribbon around it (this also happens when I disable the Zorin-theme). I only get to the actual boot menu by pressing the escape key. When I do nothing, Zorin OS boots after 10 seconds.
/etc/default/grub
, in particular GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE
(should be set to menu
if you want the menu all the time, set GRUB_TIMEOUT
to -1
or an appropriate number of seconds). Don't forget to sudo update-grub
after the changes, easily forgotten.
Last edited by gm10 on Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
I put GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE from 'hidden' to 'menu' and it works fine now, thanks
The ideal solution would of course be for someone to rewrite the /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober file, my file says "Copyright (C) 2006,2007,2008,2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc.", is it that much to ask for an update every ten years?
The ideal solution would of course be for someone to rewrite the /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober file, my file says "Copyright (C) 2006,2007,2008,2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc.", is it that much to ask for an update every ten years?
Re: Grub Customizer: why you shouldn't use it
I'm no programmer at all, only learnt to make a very simple html page once, so would be rather funny if I could fix a 9-year old bug