Will Mint 19.x contain Ubuntu's diagnostics data collection?

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MurphCID
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Will Mint 19.x contain Ubuntu's diagnostics data collection?

Post by MurphCID » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:47 am

I assume not, but I just wanted to ask the developers if they plan on ripping out Ubuntu's spyware that they are installing in Ubuntu 18.x? I love the fact that with Mint I have a non-spyware, non-data downloading, non-phone home to momma o/s. I am not attempting a troll, I am genuinely curious, since one of the reasons I came to Linux was to get away from the constant data sucking that happens on Winders and Mac o/s. I think what really upsets me about this is that it is mandatory opt-out rather than the more linux like opt-in where you can make a decision to allow it. The opt out stinks of Microsoft and Google. Thanks.

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xenopeek
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Re: Will Mint 19.x contain Ubuntu's diagnostics data collection?

Post by xenopeek » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:03 pm

As far as I've seen this has only been offered as an idea for discussion, about how to get more, anonymous, diagnostics data to help focus the engineering effort: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubunt ... 40139.html. The idea would be to get data about the install once (which Ubuntu version & flavor was installed, a few stats about the hardware, a few stats about installation choices and how much time the install took) and enable popcon and apport to report program popularity and crashes. In the discussion concerns were raised about whether opt-out would comply with EU privacy laws and whether instead making this opt-in wouldn't suffice if a, statistically significant enough, number of users could be expected to opt-in.

I didn't see a decision made on any of these. What is your source that a decision is made?

In any case, Linux Mint's ISOs are built from the ground up. So what programs Ubuntu installs by default has no bearing on what Linux Mint installs.
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Re: Will Mint 19.x contain Ubuntu's diagnostics data collection?

Post by MurphCID » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:52 pm

I got it here: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/02/ubu ... on-opt-out and here: https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/02/1 ... h-1804-lts I just prefer opt-in, since opt-out feels somehow underhanded, and too much like Microsoft, Google, and others who spy on you and don't admit they are collecting data to monetize you with targeted ads, etc.


xenopeek wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:03 pm
As far as I've seen this has only been offered as an idea for discussion, about how to get more, anonymous, diagnostics data to help focus the engineering effort: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubunt ... 40139.html. The idea would be to get data about the install once (which Ubuntu version & flavor was installed, a few stats about the hardware, a few stats about installation choices and how much time the install took) and enable popcon and apport to report program popularity and crashes. In the discussion concerns were raised about whether opt-out would comply with EU privacy laws and whether instead making this opt-in wouldn't suffice if a, statistically significant enough, number of users could be expected to opt-in.

I didn't see a decision made on any of these. What is your source that a decision is made?

In any case, Linux Mint's ISOs are built from the ground up. So what programs Ubuntu installs by default has no bearing on what Linux Mint installs.

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Re: Will Mint 19.x contain Ubuntu's diagnostics data collection?

Post by xenopeek » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:09 pm

Both of your articles are about the discussion that took place about a month ago between a few developers about the idea. Not about any decision that was made.
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Re: Will Mint 19.x contain Ubuntu's diagnostics data collection?

Post by MurphCID » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:47 pm

I know, but I want to have the option to chose to be tracked or have telemetry sent to someone. I don't like being told "oh by the way if you don't want us to do this, you have to tell us no."
xenopeek wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:09 pm
Both of your articles are about the discussion that took place about a month ago between a few developers about the idea. Not about any decision that was made.

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Re: Will Mint 19.x contain Ubuntu's diagnostics data collection?

Post by Mick-Cork » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:46 pm

The following was posted by Clem in the comments of the January Monthly News blog post...
Yes, Ubuntu is the best base to build Linux Mint 19. Yes, it will be used. No, we won’t have stats or data going from your computer towards upstream in Linux Mint 19. We’re not quite sure yet how this will be implemented so it’s too early to say whether it will be “removed”, “disabled” or simply “not added”, but we’re not interested in collecting data, whether it’s for us or for anyone else, so you won’t see anything like this in Linux Mint 19.

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Re: Will Mint 19.x contain Ubuntu's diagnostics data collection?

Post by MurphCID » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:57 am

That is great, and what I expected from the superb people at the Mint team. I don't mind voluntarily giving the data as long as I can remain anonymous. But I want it to be my choice, and I also do not want it to be a constant data suck from my computer.

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Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by JeZ-l-Lee » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:52 am

Hi,

*ubuntu 18.04 LTS phones home private user data.
Will upcoming Linux Mint 19 phone home private user data too?
Let me know, thanks!

Jesse

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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by Cosmo. » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:57 am

Ask somebody, who has seen LM 19 already. No user saw this until now and no user will see it very soon (not before the release of the beta version). So this is here simply the wrong place and the wrong time to ask. (Of course we could write about assumptions and guesses, but this has not the least to do with a support question.)

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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by Flemur » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:25 am

JeZ-l-Lee wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:52 am
*ubuntu 18.04 LTS phones home private user data.
Not necessarily.

https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/02/1 ... h-1804-lts
"Before you read anything further, it's important to note that users will have the option to opt-out of this data collection. The company plans to add a checkbox to the installer, which would be checked by default.
...
To be precise, the collected data will include: flavour and version of Ubuntu, network connectivity or not, CPU family, RAM, disk(s) size, screen(s) resolution, GPU vendor and model, OEM manufacturer, location (based on the location selection made during install), no IP information, time taken for Installation, auto-login enabled or not, disk layout selected, third party software selected or not, download updates during install or not, livePatch enabled or not."

Is that "private user data"?
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?
Mint 18.3 Xfce/fluxbox/pulse-less
Xubuntu 17.10/fluxbox/pulse-less

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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by smurphos » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:53 am


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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by JeremyB » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:04 pm

Moved to chat about Linux Mint

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Schultz
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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by Schultz » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:51 pm

smurphos wrote:
Short answer is no it won't.

https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3509#comment-140302
First time I read this. It makes me feel a little bit better.

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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by sammiev » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:12 pm

Even though Mint will never phone home, people will always have it in the back of thier mind, is it phoning home?
It would have been a good time for Mint to move away from Ubuntu.

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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by JeremyB » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:23 pm

Canonical would see a lot less complaints if they made this software opt-in rather than opt-out

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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by JosephM » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:56 pm

I for one hope most users leave this enabled. I know there is a larger community of tinfoil hatters in the Linux community that will never except it. This is hugely useful info for devs. Just having real, hard numbers about the type of hardware users are using would be great. Currently no one knows. Having this sort of info, as long as they handle it correctly, could really help Linux over the long run.
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by Schultz » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:16 pm

Flemur wrote:
To be precise, the collected data will include: flavour and version of Ubuntu, network connectivity or not, CPU family, RAM, disk(s) size, screen(s) resolution, GPU vendor and model, OEM manufacturer, location (based on the location selection made during install), no IP information, time taken for Installation, auto-login enabled or not, disk layout selected, third party software selected or not, download updates during install or not, livePatch enabled or not."

Is that "private user data"?
It is, if, for whatever reason, a user doesn't want to give it out.
JosephM wrote:
Having this sort of info, as long as they handle it correctly . . .
The key phrase in your post.

The type of info Ubuntu would be collecting from this is harmless (it seems) as far as it goes. The question is, once they implement this, will they stop there, or on the next version collect even more types of data? That's the real question. (You know, the slippery slope . . . the frog in the slowly boiling water, etc., etc.)

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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by JosephM » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:26 pm

The question is, once they implement this, will they stop there, or on the next version collect even more types of data? That's the real question. (You know, the slippery slope . . . the frog in the slowly boiling water, etc., etc.)
Of course and I agree. But you can't really judge it on what "could" change in the future. If it changes, then you revaluate.
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by Schultz » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:02 pm

JosephM wrote:
But you can't really judge it on what "could" change in the future. If it changes, then you revaluate.
True, but call me cynical. I'd be really surprised if the following release doesn't collect even more data. Time will tell.

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Re: Linux Mint 19 - Phone Home Private User Data?

Post by karlchen » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:40 pm

Should we not trust open source software more than closed proprietary software?
For the simple reason that the source code is freely available for open source software.
So it will be pretty hard to hide the rules which collecting anonymized user data follows or changes of such rules.

Should we not trust developers more who discuss ways of gathering needed usage data before implementing telemetry than those developers who implement silently into their closed software sources whatever the company tells them to implement?

If we do not even trust open source software any longer how can we go on using any piece of software not written by ourselves, let alone a whole Linux distribution like Linux Mint or Ubuntu or Debian or CentOS or Fedora or OpenSuse or any other Linux distribution?
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