The value of experience

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AZgl1500
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The value of experience

Post by AZgl1500 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:45 pm

Some are very familiar with my series of topics :lol:

Wanting to get off the Windows band wagon, I looked for something else, and selected "Cinnamon" on the Mint platform.

That was 2 years ago or so, but my "get down and dirty" with Linux did not happen until lately.
at first, it was all "how in the heck am I supposed to be able to do this?"

No clue on the command lines, I hated a command line driven OS, pure and simple.... that hails from back in the DOS days of working with Basic, and then dabbling in C and then machine coding with the 6502 cpu.

Of course then, there was no such thing as "the Internet", I was big into Ham Radio ( Amateur Radio ) and first licensed in 1958.... so I built up a code reader and other such things.

Fast Forward to about six months ago, what with my wife having passed, and a big hole in my mental stability, I really needed something that I could divert my thinking onto instead of sulking around the house under a black cloud.

18.3 Cinnamon caught my eye and I went for it.... Deep, I wanted to get a "Daily Driver" laptop that would do what I wanted, when I wanted it, and for the Desktop to look like I wanted it... "wide scroll bars", little toys like that.

Then about a week ago, I have it all polished up nice and neat, and get to thinking: "Ya know ole sod, you better make a backup of this thing"....... and that eventually led to me learning Clonezilla....

Actually, that led to a disaster with Clonezilla and I managed to direct the "stored image" to the /dev/sda2 ext4 partition where every thing important resides.

Clonezilla stopped with an error message no room on device

Hmmmm, better reboot and see what is happening? Well, grub menu shows and then a message Bad Block and it stops with the cursor blinking on a black screen.

Of course, the first thing I thought of was, oh crap, I should have been playing around with one of the old 32bit laptops for this learning curve…. But, too late now, on with the show.

So, back to the Win7 desktop and TuxBoot makes me up a new Flash drive stick for 18.3 Cinnamon…. My experience with LiveCDs had already given me a foul taste for how slow they run.

With the stick in place, the laptop was up and running about 30 minutes later…. Nice an trim, no fluff, just a nice and quick responsive machine.

Did a Timeshift and labeled it ‘Fresh Install’ and then I added on a few basic apps that I wanted….. but what was more important was that none of the detritus of my prior experiments with every “gee whiz great toy” apps was installed, I left all of those off.

As I had taken a lot of detailed notes and stored them on my Evernote cloud account, it was fairly easy, and pretty fast to get back to where I was before, “only better now”….

Two days of playing with it, and I have it all polished up nice and bright. A few copies of Timeshift, and one good solid Clonezilla backup. All directed to the extUSB HDD so nice and safe. And pulling back all of my Personal Data from the extUSB HDD, it looks like, and has everything I had before. All the pictures, Downloads, etc... it is all there to use as I decide I want it, or not....

Now, I can get back to what I was doing before the crash, reading the Linux Mint forums to see what is going on, watching TV, talking to friends on the phone, deleting trash spam emails, LOL

Life is grand, and the world did not end with a crash :mrgreen:

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Re: The value of experience

Post by BigEasy » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:58 pm

AZgl1500 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:45 pm
Wanting to get off the Windows band wagon, I looked for something else, and selected "Cinnamon" on the Mint platform.
It is everybodies sweet dream. My too.
So, back to the Win7 desktop and TuxBoot makes me up a new Flash drive stick for 18.3 Cinnamon….
Oops, suddenly escape from Windows failed.
Now, I can get back to what I was doing before the crash, reading the Linux Mint forums to see what is going on, watching TV, talking to friends on the phone, deleting trash spam emails, LOL
Really LOL.
Windows assumes I'm stupid but Linux demands proof of it

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Re: The value of experience

Post by Portreve » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:54 pm

First off, AZgl1500, my condolences on the passing of your wife. I lost a very close and nearly girlfriend a few years ago. I can't begin to imagine losing a wife of many years.

Anyhow, I think the most important thing (and there's a thread kind of dedicated to this general concept) for you to understand is that LinuxMint is not Windows. By all means, go and search this forum for that thread and read it, but here's what I'd like to convey on that topic...

Every organization which has produced an operating system over the decades has made a set of assumptions about how an OS should work. Even in the days of MIT's Apollo Guidance Computer when the concept of an "operating system" wasn't quite defined in the way we would define operating systems in the modern era of computer technology, certain basic operational assumptions were made, from which were then established standards of how to do things, both from within the system itself and from the standpoint of how users interacted with the system and performed certain specific tasks. While it's true there have been many operating system makers, the way history has played out, the only operating systems most people think about are Microsoft's MS-DOS or Windows, and Apple's Mac OS (and, of more recent memory, Mac OS X). And, of course, of those two, the ultra-majority producer is Microsoft, so it therefore makes sense that you, like most other people out there, approach computing from the perspective that Microsoft's way is the basic default way in which operating systems work.

The reality, of course, is that that isn't really the truth. But nevertheless, my point here is for you to try and understand your way out of your confusion, not to reprimand you — nor make you think I'm reprimanding you — for mentally being where you are.

For a number of us, such as myself, while using a UNIX-type OS like GNU+Linux is relatively new, many of the ways it works at the user level are actually quite old hat. For example, you plug in a keyboard and it just starts working. Or a mouse. Or a flash drive. Long-time Mac users (again, describing myself here) are used to not having some arcane and formalistic way of making things work. Cinnamon, for another example, is actually incredibly Mac OS / Mac OS X Finder-like.

I don't propose in this singular reply to your post to try and teach you all about LM, or any other distro, but rather to get you to think about what I've said above, and about two other basically categorical things.

First, the overriding ethic of the Free Software community is that your computer (sometimes, you'll see us refer to it as "the box" or "your box") is your own property and therefore you should at all times as the owner of that box be empowered to do whatever you wish to. It's extremely important that things are neither restricted nor obscured. A classical example of this is configuration files for assorted installed software (and/or system components) vs the Windows Registry. Bear in mind that generally, you will not need to pull up a command prompt to do tasks, but whether you need to or not, settings and configurations for programs are written in relatively straight-forward English. For example, you might find that some particular option is listed, with a parameter like "true" or "on", or "false" or "off". There's no near-incomprehensible hexadecimal code, nor is it tucked away in some central area you're really not supposed to touch.

The second thing I'd like you to consider is, having read the previous bit on the design ethic of the Free Software community, think about how you might decide to implement a feature. For example, if you know that [CTRL] + [SHIFT] + [N] is a keyboard shortcut for creating a new folder, or that more broadly such [CTRL] + type sequences include for the most part letters similar to the words of the functions you're trying to access (Print, Copy, etc.) then if you knew your user folder contains many invisible folders storing system settings, plug-ins, and other bits which are specific to you, then perhaps it might occur to you that [CTRL] + [H] would show hidden files. Of course, there is an obvious (and plainly listed) menu item for showing hidden files and folders, but basic intuition can lead you there as well.

If you stop and think about things on the system in these terms, it might help make things a bit more intuitive for you as a new user of LinuxMint.


There's a lot more which can be said on a great many things having to do with LinuxMint in particular, or GNU+Linux in general, but I just want to leave it at this, and hope you simply let your own natural intelligence and curiosity take over.


Should you need any help or have any questions, please don't hesitate to post a thread and ask those questions. We're a friendly community, and are happy to help our fellow human beings.


Best,

Portreve
Everything is in hand. With this tapestry... and with patience, there is nothing one cannot achieve.

No hamsters were harmed in the authoring of this post.

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Re: The value of experience

Post by AZgl1500 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:20 pm

@Portreve


First off, AZgl1500, my condolences on the passing of your wife. I lost a very close and nearly girlfriend a few years ago. I can't begin to imagine losing a wife of many years.

Thank you, she was diabetic and we had several years to get prepared, when she went, it was at her time of choosing, by telling the doctors to keep her free of pain, but stop all Life Saving efforts... she lasted about 12 hours at that point.


I don't propose in this singular reply to your post to try and teach you all about LM, or any other distro, but rather to get you to think about what I've said above, and about two other basically categorical things.
fully aware of that

First, the overriding ethic of the Free Software community is that your computer (sometimes, you'll see us refer to it as "the box" or "your box") is your own property


And I agree with this


The second thing I'd like you to consider is, having read the previous bit on the design ethic of the Free Software community, think about how you might decide to implement a feature. For example, if you know that [CTRL] + [SHIFT] + [N] is a keyboard shortcut for creating a new folder, or that more broadly such [CTRL] + type sequences include for the most part letters similar to the words of the functions you're trying to access (Print, Copy, etc.) then if you knew your user folder contains many invisible folders storing system settings, plug-ins, and other bits which are specific to you, then perhaps it might occur to you that [CTRL] + [H] would show hidden files. Of course, there is an obvious (and plainly listed) menu item for showing hidden files and folders, but basic intuition can lead you there as well.

If you stop and think about things on the system in these terms, it might help make things a bit more intuitive for you as a new user of LinuxMint.

All of what you have said is familiar to me, as I have been studying almost every Newbie Thread there is for six months....
I make meticulous notes on a topic, and save that topic in my notebook ( Evernote )
I have in the last 3 or 4 weeks started using the "New Posts" as my Reading Material, and that way I catch all of the different categories.


Should you need any help or have any questions, please don't hesitate to post a thread and ask those questions. We're a friendly community, and are happy to help our fellow human beings.


Best,

Portreve
[/quote]


I have learned most of the shortcut keys, and am able to get around very well today, I use Control-ALT-T to get to Terminal because it is faster than using the mouse.

I use ALT+F4 to kill windows that I don't need anymore, or Control-Q if it is an application...

I have found that I am now much more acclimated to the Linux 18.3 Cinnamon desktop than I am with my old familiar Win7 Desktop which will sit right where it is forever.... a few things are on it, that can't be done in Linux... that's okay, there is not cost for it to sit there... it was paid for 7 years ago.... it is still faster than anything else in this house with the exception of a new laptop I bought for my daughter at Christmas, it has a SSD instead of a Hard drive, and 8 gB of RAM.... nice toy for her.

I wrote this little story, more as a comment on life and having learned enough about Linux Mint 18.3 that I was able to completely restore my laptop to the way it was before it crashed in less than two days.... including all of the little nuances that we like to incorporate....

I can remember having wasted a week or a month being pissed because a Windows computer crashed, and my latest full backup was too old to have all the latest tweaks in it....

The Windows Registry is my playground, I used to do most of my tweaking there........
But, I realize that Linux/UNIX, etc is just a collection of small modules that are called, and when done, they are exited.

I think of that like the Machine Code modules that I used to write.... I would do a "gosub xyz" and return to the basic program module....

so, in that mode, I am acclimating to Linux much faster than someone who was just handed a Linux box and they had never used a computer before....

And in closing, I am really enjoying my foray into the world of Linux Mint....
It is helping my 75 y/o brain cells to stay alive, and gives me something to enjoy that is not bad for the body like drugs/alcohol, etc.... none of which I have ever touched in my life....

so, with that, thank you and all who have replied... Life is Great.


My other hobby is my Honda GL1800 motorcycle, she like me, is getting ancient at the age of 16 y/o....
but she runs like brand new.

https://i.imgur.com/7752GjF.jpg

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Re: The value of experience

Post by lsemmens » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:56 pm

My other hobby is my Honda GL1800 motorcycle, she like me, is getting ancient at the age of 16 y/o....
but she runs like brand new.

https://i.imgur.com/7752GjF.jpg
Nice toy! You must have some fond memories on that bike. My wife and I did a lot of our courting on a motor bike, though nothing as grand. It was a Yamaha dirt bike. Me, guitar, her! :D

I understand the loss of a loved one, the sadness, and the relief. I've been nursing my wife for about 30 years, and, in some ways, to see her out of pain, would be a relief, but I'm not looking forward to having to say goodbye.

On a lighter note, welcome to the world of Linux, so much to see, so much to do. :D
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Laptop T4500 Dualcore 4Gb RAM
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Re: The value of experience

Post by Hoser Rob » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:56 am

Portreve wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:54 pm
First off, AZgl1500, my condolences on the passing of your wife. I lost a very... Even in the days of MIT's Apollo Guidance Computer when the concept of an "operating system" wasn't quite defined in the way we would define operating systems in the modern era of computer technology...
Don't be so sure. Linux is, of course, based on Unix. Unix was developed in the early 70s though it really started about the same time as the Apollo project mentioned above. AFAIK the first Unix site license was in 1975.

Many people don't want to believe that a LOT of brand new computer tech is really old tech that's just become affordable. But it's true.

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Re: The value of experience

Post by Portreve » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:05 pm

Hoser Rob wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:56 am
Portreve wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:54 pm
First off, AZgl1500, my condolences on the passing of your wife. I lost a very... Even in the days of MIT's Apollo Guidance Computer when the concept of an "operating system" wasn't quite defined in the way we would define operating systems in the modern era of computer technology...
Don't be so sure. Linux is, of course, based on Unix. Unix was developed in the early 70s though it really started about the same time as the Apollo project mentioned above. AFAIK the first Unix site license was in 1975.

Many people don't want to believe that a LOT of brand new computer tech is really old tech that's just become affordable. But it's true.
There is a fair amount of truth in what you say.

Bell Labs developed UNIX, but there were several variants of it, including HP's own HP/UX. In a lot of cases, getting what passes for a modern operating system to actually work required a LOT of performance improvements in the hardware.
Everything is in hand. With this tapestry... and with patience, there is nothing one cannot achieve.

No hamsters were harmed in the authoring of this post.

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Re: The value of experience

Post by AZgl1500 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:38 pm

Even in the days of MIT's Apollo Guidance Computer when the concept of an "operating system" wasn't quite defined in the way we would define operating systems in the modern era of computer technology...
When I wrote that, my thought was that the interface of the '60s thru the '90s was NOT designed for the casual user.
No GUIs were present, or if they were, I never saw one.

All I ever saw was the Command Line interface, which if I knew the name of a program, it could be brought up with a Command...

but for the type of interface the world is used to now, MS Windows, Linux Mint Cinnamon, nothing else comes close.

I have many versions of Linux installed under Virtualbox, and Lubuntu is sort of close, but none comes close to Mint Cinnamon..... for being easy to use without having to "really understand the underlying horsepower" that makes it go.

I am setting up a new Dell laptop for my son to use, he wants a version of Linux that will be easy for him to adapt to, as his employer uses only Linux for their corporate proprietary systems. They chose Lubuntu.

I suspect because it is almost stripped bare bones, and they only allow their applications to show in their menus... no one is allowed to visit the outside world, all employees are restricted to a VPN that connects to their "Intranet" and their servers period.

He wants a personal laptop that he can use to get "outside" to the Internet.
He has seen what I am doing with Mint Cinnamon and he likes it....
( I have been sending him Screen Recorder videos of the menu system, the backup utilities, Timeshift, etc...

he likes what 18.3 Cinnamon can do. And, he is paranoid on Security Issues and has seen what has happened to his current slate of MS Windows laptops. He is sick of the constant Blue Screens of Death, and the long long waiting times for it to boot and be ready to use.

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Re: The value of experience

Post by Portreve » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:42 pm

AZgl1500 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:38 pm
Even in the days of MIT's Apollo Guidance Computer when the concept of an "operating system" wasn't quite defined in the way we would define operating systems in the modern era of computer technology...
When I wrote that, my thought was that the interface of the '60s thru the '90s was NOT designed for the casual user.
No GUIs were present, or if they were, I never saw one.
What I was getting at was much more fundamental than something operating at the level of a user interface, whether graphical or not.

The AGC was an incredibly complex beast because the way in which it was forced to go about computing chores was pretty barbaric. It largely brute-forced its way through the process, or required already pre-chewed data be handed to it from an external source (manual entry on the DSKY keypad, telemetry uplink from NASA's Deep Space Network) and honestly its "operating system" was little more than a very glorified, hopped-up-on-steroids BIOS.

For you or anyone else who may be interested, here are three videos on YouTube which, even if you don't watch the whole thing, will give you the idea of just how primitive things were.
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Re: The value of experience

Post by AZgl1500 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:03 pm

Portreve wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:42 pm
What I was getting at was much more fundamental than something operating at the level of a user interface, whether graphical or not.

The AGC was an incredibly complex beast because the way in which it was forced to go about computing chores was pretty barbaric. It largely brute-forced its way through the process, or required already pre-chewed data be handed to it from an external source (manual entry on the DSKY keypad, telemetry uplink from NASA's Deep Space Network) and honestly its "operating system" was little more than a very glorified, hopped-up-on-steroids BIOS.

For you or anyone else who may be interested, here are three videos on YouTube which, even if you don't watch the whole thing, will give you the idea of just how primitive things were.
Thanks for that list of videos, I shall watch them all, I have been a NASA geek forever, in awe that the first computer to fly the astronauts was not much more powerful than a Commodore 64. Possibly no more so?
an 18 wheeler truck rammed me and my motorcycle into a wall back in 2008 and I lost a lot of memory cells.

Anyway, for me, at the start of this thread, was the value of my prior experience clobbering Linux Mint and seeing what went wrong.... Since my rebuild of this laptop, it has not had the slightest burble... it just cruises along and I enjoy every minute of using it now.

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Re: The value of experience

Post by Portreve » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:56 pm

AZgl1500 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:03 pm
Thanks for that list of videos, I shall watch them all, I have been a NASA geek forever, in awe that the first computer to fly the astronauts was not much more powerful than a Commodore 64. Possibly no more so?
an 18 wheeler truck rammed me and my motorcycle into a wall back in 2008 and I lost a lot of memory cells.
For me to tell you how powerful the AGC was would simply sound like (reverse?) hyperbole.

It wasn't powerful at all. It was roughly 60% first generation transistors and miniaturized component chips, and 40% electromechanical relays. It contained no integrated circuit type chips in the sense we would know them today. Frankly, it wasn't even close to Apple's mid 1970s Apple I, much less anything anything more modern. This was the first attempt at a miniaturized, fly-able computer.

In short, anything you or I as civilians, or persons not involved with electronics (later computer) companies of the 1960s or 1970s, never laid hands on "current" generation technology at any point in our computer-using lives which was not at least a magnitude of order (or two or three) more powerful than what flew on board the Apollo Command Module (and Lunar Module).

I'm not sure I can be any more specific in what I mean by "it wasn't powerful at all".
Everything is in hand. With this tapestry... and with patience, there is nothing one cannot achieve.

No hamsters were harmed in the authoring of this post.

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