Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

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catweazel
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Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by catweazel » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:03 am

Non-x86 servers crawl towards mainstream viability

Gigabyte is due to release new Arm server boards.

The significant text in the article is in the last two paragraphs:
Gigabyte doesn’t expect mainstream users will rush to its new products, instead recognizing that telcos, hyperscale operations and high-performance computing users are most likely to be interested in integrating what remains an exotic proposition.

But by adding mainstream tooling, Gigabyte’s also made it possible for mainstream users to at least consider a dalliance. And that may be enough to set the Arm server ecosystem snowballing.
It may well be well off in the distance but is it improbable that we might eventually see an Arm-based Linux Mint?
"There is, ultimately, only one truth -- cogito, ergo sum -- everything else is an assumption." - Me, my swansong.

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jimallyn
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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by jimallyn » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:07 am

I suppose it could happen. Mint's two versions are based on Ubuntu and Debian, both of which have an ARM version. I haven't heard any scuttlebutt on it, though, and I would think Mint would likely wait until ARM is better established in the desktop/laptop arena.
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catweazel
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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by catweazel » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:08 am

jimallyn wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:07 am
I would think Mint would likely wait until ARM is better established in the desktop/laptop arena.
Yes. I think that's a fair assessment.
"There is, ultimately, only one truth -- cogito, ergo sum -- everything else is an assumption." - Me, my swansong.

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Faust
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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by Faust » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:23 am

catweazel wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:03 am
......
It may well be well off in the distance but is it improbable that we might eventually see an Arm-based Linux Mint?
I don't see why not , it seems perfectly feasible .
Debian ( in the form of Raspbian ) runs beautifully on my ARM quad-core Raspberry Pis .

SoC: Broadcom BCM2837
CPU: 4× ARM Cortex-A53, 1.2GHz
GPU: Broadcom VideoCore IV
RAM: 1GB LPDDR2 (900 MHz)
" And so it goes " - Kurt Vonnegut
The modern reality and the satirical parody are rapidly converging .

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by KBD47 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:34 am

Aren't a lot of the newer Chromebooks now running on Arm? Also Windows is moving in that direction. Linux will have to follow to keep up with the newer hardware built for longer battery life.
Thought this article was very interesting:
We tend to think of ARM processors as something you only use when another chip from Intel or AMD isn't an option because they aren't as good. That's wrong on every level. Companies like Google use ARM chips in the servers that power the internet, companies like NVIDIA use ARM chips to process some insanely complicated machine vision and artificial intelligence applications, and on a small scale, things like your wireless router use an ARM chip because it's more power efficient when processing small bursts of data coming very quickly. ARM chips can be just as good or better than traditional X86 CPUs.
https://www.androidcentral.com/why-arm- ... your-phone

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by Petermint » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:46 pm

The Raspbian version of Linux is excellent and available for X86 under the name Pixel. It is LMDE based, the main reason I would not use Pixel anywhere I can use LM. Anything heavier than LMDE is too slow on most ARM chips. To keep the power usage low, the graphics chips are too weak for the range of applications I use. They do not handle two monitors. To do desktop type work, you have to buy a top of the range ARM device and they are more expensive than the equivalent speed x86 device.

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by jeffmcneill » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:29 am

There is a new class of ARM running things like Chromebooks, for example the ASUS c101pa (a $250 USD base model 4gb/16gb), which has the same baseboard as the Samsung Chromebook Plus. These use a Rockchip Coretex-A72+Cortex-A53 RK3399 6 core 2ghz, with an ARM Mali-T860MP4 graphics processor.

Under ChromeOS this device can already run Chrome Apps, Android Apps, and Linux Apps using Linux Containers. Currently there are still significant limitations for Linux Apps in containers, though there is the Crouton method.

Since ChromeOS is limited in other ways, my guess is that the hardware is sufficient to run LMDE3, and get a better experience. However, this will obviously have to be done by manually putting together a Debian + Cinnamon install, missing out on a more comprehensive, integrated install.

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by Luke Starfleet » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:47 am

Currently, I am recreating the Linux Mint 19 Tara by putting standardized Linux Mint software (extracted from my x64 Linux Mint 19 PC) like themes, apps etc onto a Raspberry Pi compatible OS (Ubuntu).

So it will function like Linux Mint.

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by stephanieswitzer » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:52 am

I have 2 Raspberry Pi 3B+ and an Odroid XU4. The RPi running Raspian Pixel with the Odroid running Ubuntu. It sure would be great if there was a version of Mint that would run on the Odroid. It's a little power house that fits in the palm of your hand and for $62.00USD you get:

KEY FEATURES

Samsung Exynos5422 Cortex™-A15 2Ghz and Cortex™-A7 Octa core CPUs
Mali-T628 MP6 (OpenGL ES 3.0/2.0/1.1 and OpenCL 1.1 Full profile)
2GB LPDDR3 RAM PoP stacked
eMMC5.0 HS400 Flash Storage
2 x USB 3.0 Host, 1 x USB 2.0 Host
Gigabit Ethernet port
HDMI 1.4a for display
Operating temperature range: approx. -10C to +45C
Size: ~82 x 58 x 22 mm (including heat sink)
Low cost, small form factor, high performance!
Mac-Mini running Linux Mint 19 Cinnamon, Intel© Core™ i5-2415M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 2, 8 GiB, Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by phil995511 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:51 am

I just read an article on a server ARM 24 cores, it really sounds very interesting !

https://www.fudzilla.com/news/pc-hardwa ... otherboard

http://www.banana-pi.org/product.html

What to mount a big multimedia server at home or other...

Happy holidays and end of year to all :)
Linux Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 Bits on Dell XPS 9570 (i7-8750H) laptop / Debian 10 Buster Cinnamon 64 Bits on customized workstation (i7-5960X @ 3.8 Ghz) / Raspbian 10 Buster on Raspberry Pi 4

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by xenopeek » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:45 pm

Personally I don't follow why people would want to run Linux Mint on a server and not simply Ubuntu Server or similar server oriented distro. Obviously Linux Mint is a desktop operating system. Desktop as in desktop environment. Take away the desktop environment and you're left with Ubuntu but without the more sensible default package selection (for server use) of Ubuntu Server.

From what I recall ARM was mostly making headway in the "always online, no local storage, missing some keys" convertibles. Weren't there issues with such devices shipping with Windows having a locked down bootloader, not permitting install of other OS? I think until ARM becomes more mainstream in general purpose desktops/laptops it may be hard to justify doing away with one or more of the current Linux Mint editions so as to free up time to work on an ARM edition. To be clear: these are my personal thoughts.
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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by michael louwe » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:48 pm

ARM processors were purposely designed for mobile smartphones which were therefore limited by many factors;
1. to preserve battery life, they have to be energy-sipping = low-power and low frequency.
2. to reduce heat generated in the fanless smartphones, they also have to be as 1. above.
3. to fit into thin smartphones, they have to be very thin and small.
4. power-hungry apps/programs cannot be run on them, eg 3D video rendering for games development.

I think it is quite foolish to use ARM processors on laptops, desktops and servers. It's like putting a sedan-car engine into a bigger truck, which can be done but will result in a very slow truck.

I do not think Windows 10 on ARM netbooks are doing well. Win 10 is a power-and-resource-hungry OS. It will likely end up a failure like Windows 8.x on ARM Surface RT 2-in-1 tablets. Even Windows 8.x/10 on Intel Atom netbooks did not do well.
Last edited by michael louwe on Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by tenfoot » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:10 am

ARM processors were purposely designed for mobile smartphones
Not quite correct. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture
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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by michael louwe » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:17 am

tenfoot wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:10 am
ARM processors were purposely designed for mobile smartphones
Not quite correct. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture
.
.
In the real practical world,(not the theoretical world of Wiki) what I said is mostly correct and true. ....... https://www.androidauthority.com/arm-vs ... ed-568718/ - ARM vs X86 – Key differences explained! - 2014
The next major difference between an ARM processor and an Intel processor is that ARM has only ever designed power efficient processors. Its raison d’être is to design low-power usage processors. That is its expertise. However Intel’s expertise is to design super high performance desktop and server processors. And it has done a good job.
.
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/u ... x86-cores/ - Understanding the Differences Between ARM and x86 Processing Cores - May 05, 2017
For years, ARM (originally Acorn RISC Machines but now Advanced RISC Machines) has been at the center of modern microprocessors and embedded design. With a focus on low power consumption and a simple instruction set, mobile devices in particular have hugely benefited from the processor design.

Intel, for its part, has mainly produced processors aimed at high performance and high throughput environments, including desktop PCs, laptops, servers, and even supercomputers.

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by ammonharper » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:06 pm

There are reasons for arm capable Linux. For instance LoD Linux on Dex for Galaxy Note 8+ phones. I'd be ecstatic to see Linux Mint for ARM as it would allow for Mint to be installed on Dex. I don't really enjoy Ubuntu as much as I do Mint. Anyhow that's just my two cents.

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by gm10 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:35 pm

ammonharper wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:06 pm
There are reasons for arm capable Linux. For instance LoD Linux on Dex for Galaxy Note 8+ phones. I'd be ecstatic to see Linux Mint for ARM as it would allow for Mint to be installed on Dex. I don't really enjoy Ubuntu as much as I do Mint. Anyhow that's just my two cents.
Personally I think that's such a fringe market that it's not really worth investing development time into. It may become a thing in the future as phones seem to grow to the size of desktops again - anyone remember the times when making them as small as possible so you don't have to carry a brick with you was a thing? And tablets, of course. Still, even then I don't really see it. Cinnamon on a phone? Ubuntu phone died an ugly death for a reason.

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by ammonharper » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:40 pm

Dex is a desktop OS extension on the phone. I'm using the beta with Ubuntu 16 currently. I'd like to see Mint however it seems like it's dead before the discussion starts. So meh...

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by gm10 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:43 pm

ammonharper wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:40 pm
Dex is a desktop OS extension on the phone. I'm using the beta with Ubuntu 16 currently. I'd like to see Mint however it seems like it's dead before the discussion starts. So meh...
Have you tried adding the Mint 18 repos and simply installing the relevant meta-package you're interested in? Most things should work regardless, but I'm not sure about Cinnamon itself.

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by foberle » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:43 am

This is an interesting discussion to me for the following reasons:

a) The planned (supposedly within this quarter) release of the Librem 5 phone, which uses the i.MX8M/Cortex A53, 64bit ARM.
b) The Librem 5 is (again, supposedly) easily able to connect to a monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
c) The Librem 5 uses Gnome as its "desktop" ("phone top"??) - Librem claims they are upstreaming any required additions/enhancements for phones to Gnome.
d) I've never done any explicit testing, but my impression is that Gnome is more resource-intensive than Cinnamon (and early reviews of the latest iteration in Mint 19.2, which I haven't upgraded to yet, all report noticeable speed increases).
e) So, if Gnome works satisfactorily (and, again, as a phone and emergency laptop replacement/substitute, not as a server), I should think Cinnamon would work at least as well if not better.

I can't abide Android (reasons too numerous to cover here), and I would absolutely love to replace my phone with the Librem 5 (assuming it actually gets released, actually functions, actually works with my carrier, and so forth - history hasn't been any cause for optimism, but my hope is still "springing eternal" as the poet said).

I dislike Gnome (habit? taste? - "de gustibus non disputandum" and all that). If I obtain a Librem 5 phone, I suspect I'll put up with it if need be, but I'd rather have some consistency across my devices.

My own suspicion is that, once (if ever?) a functioning non-google phone comes along from a company with some credibility (and Librem's laptops seem to get high marks in reviews I've read), Android will either need to mend its ways or suffer a precipitous drop in market share. Or (caution: cynicism ahead) they'll need to pay the carriers more than they already are. gm10 is certainly correct in calling Linux phones a fringe market, but when evaluating android it's hard to fathom that that's the best solution for those not drinking Apple's cool aid.

Any thoughts?

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Re: Will Linux Mint eventually support Arm?

Post by michael louwe » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:41 am

foberle wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:43 am
I can't abide Android (reasons too numerous to cover here), and I would absolutely love to replace my phone with the Librem 5
.
Techgeeks can abide by Android phones that are closed-source and walled-off but can be bought for about US$300 for mid-end ones which they can then root, unlock the bootloaders and install the latest Android version of Lineage OS on them, eg Lineage OS 15 is based on Android 8.
....... In comparison, the free/libre open-source Librem 5 phone costs US$699(via crowdsourcing) = practically unmarketable to the masses, even though it will receive infinite OS upgrades and is free of bloatware/adware/spyware from Google and/or the OEMs.

Bear in mind that Google's business model for her free-of-charge Android OS is mainly based on targeted ad revenue = tracking of users needed = adware and spyware. This practice may be benign.

OEMs often include bloatware/adware in their Android phones in order to recoup support costs which is not provided by Google, eg OEMs may provide security updates and 2 Android upgrades maximum for their mid to high-end phones.
....... IOW, Google licenses Android to the OEMs for free on condition that they provide the support themselves. Google only directly supports her own Android phones like Nexus and Pixel, eg Android upgrades for at least 3 years = hence, her Android phones are more costly.

Most non-techgeeks can tolerate Google and the Android OEMs, even though they have nowhere to turn to. Only the more wealthy can turn to costly Librem 5 phones and Librem laptops(= from US$1399) = pay a premium for privacy.

Have you heard of Jolla Sailfish OS that is used in budget Indian phones.?
Last edited by michael louwe on Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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