What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

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Arch_Enemy
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What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:17 pm

I have 19. It is very good. Clem even saw fit to name it after my daughter! :wink:
However, the lack of customizability, thanks to GTK 3 is driving me up a wall. I can't get any old favourites to work well, and anything labeled "blue" causes details to be lost and everything is mushed together.

So, I want to go back to a version that uses GTk +2 to draw the UI. Does 18.x still use it, or do I have to go back to 17.3?

The look is really bugging me. If I wanted flat, I'd use Windows... :?
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by xenopeek » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:46 pm

I guess Linux Mint 11? Linux Mint 12 had Gnome 3 with MGSE and Linux Mint 13 had Cinnamon (superseding MGSE) and MATE. Cinnamon has always been Gtk 3. For Gtk 2 you'd have to gamble on MATE I think. Their Gtk 2 to Gtk 3 migration path says from MATE 1.17 the migration is complete so use a Linux Mint version with an older MATE release. Don't try anything newer than 18.1 as that had MATE 1.16. Probably the older the "better" but mind that Linux Mint 17.x have but a half year of life left.

Personally I'd perhaps try getting help with what issue you have? A screenshot or two highlighting the issues perhaps. There's probably folks that have invested time in customizing their setup that may be able to help. It's not me though; I just pick a wallpaper and leave the rest as-is.
Arch_Enemy wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:17 pm
The look is really bugging me. If I wanted flat, I'd use Windows... :?
Have you tried 3D glasses? :)
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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:19 pm

xenopeek wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:46 pm
I just pick a wallpaper and leave the rest as-is.
Arch_Enemy wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:17 pm
The look is really bugging me. If I wanted flat, I'd use Windows... :?
Have you tried 3D glasses? :)
Well, 17.3 worked fine. I didn't mess with 18 enough to get used to it. As far as 3D glasses, I usually use beer goggles (actually, Scotch goggles)
But that's for another discussion... :D
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by karlchen » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:59 pm

Hello, Arch_Enemy.

After having upgraded from Mint 18.3 Cinnamon to Mint 19 Cinnamon, I decided, too, that flat icons are not for me.
Please, have a peek at this post, which is precisely about getting away from flat icons, without falling back to pre-world-war II Linux releases: Section "Eye candy: From Mint-Y to Mint-X"

HTH,
Karl
Last edited by karlchen on Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: corrected "peak" (top of mountain) to be "peek" (short glimpse at s.th.), which was what was meant
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Linux Mint 18.1 64-bit Cinnamon Desktop, Total Commander 9.21a 64-bit
Ubuntu 18.04.1 32-bit Mate Desktop, Total Commander 9.21a 32-bit
Windows? - 1 window in every room

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:59 pm

karlchen wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:59 pm
Hello, Arch_Enemy.

After having upgraded from Mint 18.3 Cinnamon to Mint 19 Cinnamon, I decided, too, that flat icons are not for me.
Please, have a peak at this post, which is precisely about getting away from flat icons, without falling back to pre-world-war II Linux releases: Section "Eye candy: From Mint-Y to Mint-X"

HTH,
Karl
Hi Karl.

I tried that. I loaded Cinnamon, but, unfortunately, I am a MATE fan. I was able to get more of a '3D' effect from Cinnamon, however.
But the sticking point is, some of the gray and blue themes go bonkers. No window frames, the backgrounds go the same colour as the windows, and it's a blue nightmare.

Also, window borders NEVER change with the theme. They stay the same, except for BlackMATE. That give me everything I like, but is awful dark. If I could turn it gray that would be nice, but I don't know how to edit the XML files...
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:05 pm

Here's some screenshots. Let's see if I can do this...I've only been on the Internet for 30 years...
Screenshot from 2018-10-11 22-56-58.png
Screenshot from 2018-10-11 22-56-58.png
Attachments
Screenshot from 2018-10-11 22-59-34.png
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by trytip » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:39 am

use the CUSTOMIZE and select each tab individually. but not sure what you're looking for, i can't see the images, they are too small. once i have the selections i want i save the theme. some outside themes may not have all the options needed which is why you should start with the Mint themes first to see if they look decently proportioned.
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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by smurphos » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:53 am

Where are you getting your themes from Arch_Enemy? You can't transplant theme files directly from 17.x to 18.x to 19.

17.x uses GTK 3.10, 18.x uses GTK 3.18. 19 is using GTK 3.22 and themes need to be built for the correct GTK 3.x version.

GTK have said that from GTK 3.20 onwards they will aim to maintain backwards compatibility something that they had not done previously. If you are using non-default themes you need to source GTK 3.22 or 3.20 versions of your favourite themes for Mint 19 assuming their maintainers have made them.

As mentioned in Mate you need to use the customise option to mix and match different window borders, icon themes and main GTK theme. Much easier in Cinnamon IMHO where the themes app presents the different theme elements front and centre and so encourages the end-user to mix and match,

BTW upload your screenshots to imgur (no account needed) and link them with [rimg][/rimg] tags so we can properly see what you are seeing.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:15 am

trytip wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:39 am
use the CUSTOMIZE and select each tab individually. but not sure what you're looking for, i can't see the images, they are too small. once i have the selections i want i save the theme. some outside themes may not have all the options needed which is why you should start with the Mint themes first to see if they look decently proportioned.
There's no definition at all, and the backgrounds go to the same colour as the windows. There's no window borders, and the window bar at the top ONLY changes to the correct border when I use BlackMate. It default to Adwaita window borders in all other themse except Green Laguna and Blue Submarine. I beleive my issue is trying to run GTk +2 themes, but some of them are marked by the Gnome website as being GTk +3, but they just don't work. What really bother me is the screen backgrounds changing to the same colour, there is not definition, no window borders, the printing at the top is all mushed together, you can't see any scrollbars, etc. Only the ones package with Mint work correctly.

I know some think it's not a big deal, but I absolutely HATE in CAPITAL LETTERS flat window decorations. It's one of the things that keeps me from switching to Windows 8/10 in the few instances I do have to fire up Windows. I'll keep my Win7 running as long as possible. My favourite was Gnomish Gray and Gnomish Beige, available through Mate Desktop.org, but they no longer work, and the author says it's because GTk 3 is a "moving target". They keep changing the spec and he has given up trying to keep up. I have a spare disk and Mint 18.3 ISO filed away, so I can try that. My LMDE 3 experiment went just as badly...;)
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Arch_Enemy
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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:18 am

smurphos wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:53 am
Where are you getting your themes from Arch_Enemy? You can't transplant theme files directly from 17.x to 18.x to 19.

17.x uses GTK 3.10, 18.x uses GTK 3.18. 19 is using GTK 3.22 and themes need to be built for the correct GTK 3.x version.

GTK have said that from GTK 3.20 onwards they will aim to maintain backwards compatibility something that they had not done previously. If you are using non-default themes you need to source GTK 3.22 or 3.20 versions of your favourite themes for Mint 19 assuming their maintainers have made them.

As mentioned in Mate you need to use the customise option to mix and match different window borders, icon themes and main GTK theme. Much easier in Cinnamon IMHO where the themes app presents the different theme elements front and centre and so encourages the end-user to mix and match,

BTW upload your screenshots to imgur (no account needed) and link them with [rimg][/rimg] tags so we can properly see what you are seeing.
Thanks. I was becoming aware it was the differences in GTK toolkit that is causing the issues. <sigh>...everything worked fine in GTk 2, but we always have to have better, right? The customize option has small effects...the window borders NEVER change unless using a packaged with Mint.

I know I'm nit-picking, but customizability was one of the things I LOVED about Linus, and now that has been severely limited...
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:19 am

Well, I love Linus, too, for developing a kernel and sharing it with the world, but I love Linux is what I meant to type...

Damm Scotch...
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by smurphos » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:26 am

Arch_Enemy wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:18 am
Thanks. I was becoming aware it was the differences in GTK toolkit that is causing the issues. <sigh>...everything worked fine in GTk 2, but we always have to have better, right? The customize option has small effects...the window borders NEVER change unless using a packaged with Mint.

I know I'm nit-picking, but customizability was one of the things I LOVED about Linus, and now that has been severely limited...
GTK2 hasn't been the primary renderer for many many many linux versions. It only still exists because a few apps are still built against it - like GIMP.

Give us some names of themes you are trying to use - then we might be able to help actually source compatible versions.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:38 am

smurphos wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:26 am
Arch_Enemy wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:18 am
Thanks. I was becoming aware it was the differences in GTK toolkit that is causing the issues. <sigh>...everything worked fine in GTk 2, but we always have to have better, right? The customize option has small effects...the window borders NEVER change unless using a packaged with Mint.

I know I'm nit-picking, but customizability was one of the things I LOVED about Linus, and now that has been severely limited...
GTK2 hasn't been the primary renderer for many many many linux versions. It only still exists because a few apps are still built against it - like GIMP.

Give us some names of themes you are trying to use - then we might be able to help actually source compatible versions.
This was my favourite:
https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1013674/

Blue Laguna also does not work...everything just turns the same shade of blue. Everything...backgrounds, window borders, window sliders...

https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1013551/

Greybird:
https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1015165/

Also, pointers do not change, except in certain packages. I keep changing it to Chameleon Anthracite Regular, but only certain apps use it, like Firefox and Gimp.

In almost all the others I wind up with Crystal Grey, which was a favourite until the Chameleons came out.

Some of them work...somewhat...under Cinnamon, but I like the MATE desktop. Yeah...Windows 95ish, but I love it. And the same ones not working at all under MATE also exhibit the same characteristics on Cinnamon. I even went as far as installing LXDE but that made no difference, either.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:39 am

I think you can see I go for the more 3D decorations, but not many of them are working any more.

Oh...ALL of these worked in 17.3...
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by smurphos » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:17 am

Blame the developers who abandon their projects...can't even download Greybird Mint now to see how hard it would be to fix as the developers site has expired. if you can attach a zip of the theme I can take a look.

An up to date original Greybird is in the repos - apt install greybird-gtk-theme

Blue Laguna - again lazy developer who can't be bothered to maintain their project. It can be fixed either by editing a current Green Laguna or by fixing the theme parsing errors in ~/.xsession-errors line by line

apt install mate-themes will give you the current Green Laguna. I'll take a look and see what's needed to make it Blue - no promises on timescale.

Same for GnomishGray - abandoned at GTK 3.10.....a case of fixing the theme parsing errors in ~/.xsession-errors.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by smurphos » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:22 am

BTW -take a look at Oomox if you want complete control - it''s a GUI based theme maker that can make Mint 18.x and Mint 19 compatible themes. It gives you complete control of the color schemes - https://github.com/themix-project/oomox/releases

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:01 am

smurphos wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:17 am
Blame the developers who abandon their projects...can't even download Greybird Mint now to see how hard it would be to fix as the developers site has expired. if you can attach a zip of the theme I can take a look.

An up to date original Greybird is in the repos - apt install greybird-gtk-theme

Blue Laguna - again lazy developer who can't be bothered to maintain their project. It can be fixed either by editing a current Green Laguna or by fixing the theme parsing errors in ~/.xsession-errors line by line

apt install mate-themes will give you the current Green Laguna. I'll take a look and see what's needed to make it Blue - no promises on timescale.

Same for GnomishGray - abandoned at GTK 3.10.....a case of fixing the theme parsing errors in ~/.xsession-errors.
Greybird was already up to date.

Hmmm....parsing errors. Like:

Code: Select all

(mate-session:1354): Gtk-WARNING **: 10:54:56.951: Theme parsing error: gtk.css:4091:13: negative values are not allowed
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Arch_Enemy
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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by Arch_Enemy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:33 pm

I found part of the problem: the running window manager is Marco, and it was running with compositing turned off. That has cleard up some of the issues with the window borders and controls in some of the themes. Still can't get my faves working, but it's getting closer.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by smurphos » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:17 pm

Arch_Enemy wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:01 am

Code: Select all

(mate-session:1354): Gtk-WARNING **: 10:54:56.951: Theme parsing error: gtk.css:4091:13: negative values are not allowed
Yep - those are the ones - basically these highlight the lines in the css that have syntax errors as far as the current GTK version is concerned.

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Re: What's the latest Mint edition to continue use of GTK +2 for UI?

Post by smurphos » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:30 am

Arch_Enemy wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:33 pm
Do you want to give this a try? It's a conversion of the GTK3.22 GreenLaguna to use the colors from the GTK3.10 BlueLaguna. It's a bit quick and dirty so may need a bit of tweaking.....
BlueLaguna_GTK3.22.zip
(156.11 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
BTW if you can post a ZIP of your GreyBird-Mint for reference so I can see which elements were Mintified it should be pretty straightforward to convert the current original Greybird in a similar way.

This is BlueLaguna in gtk3-widget-factory
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